<p>
</p>
<p>Truer words were never spoken. If momma-three and poppa-three can truly believe this and act accordingly, then things can change. If not, then they won’t.</p>
<p>Again I’m not a parent, but I second everyone saying you need to have the discussion about moving out; it sounds like you’re putting that off until after Xmas but in the meantime you don’t have to let you daughter walk all over you. If she said she would do something for you, make her do it. On the other hand, petty nitpicking over things you have no control over (presents) seems totally unneccesary and counterproductive. For all you know her friends and boyfriend don’t like or don’t care about exchanging presents; maybe them spending time together for the holidays is their version of present-exchanging or maybe they just don’t believe in wasting money on useless gifts (has been true for me and my friends most of the time). Even if she is being inconsiderate, you should treat her as an adult in this arena and let her handle that business herself.</p>
<p>While I know your daughter has issues, I don’t think its great that you expect her to move from one safety net (your family) to another (her boyfriend). Don’t you want her to become independent and learn to make her own decisions, as opposed to move that responsibility onto her boyfriend and have him deal with all the issues you dealt with? I guess if that’s what your daughter wants that is fine, but if not I wouldn’t encourage her to take that option. Again though, I’m not a parent and so don’t have experience on this.</p>
<p>momma-three…you know this child better than any of these advisors. You have raised several kids…most of whom are doing well. There are widely varying levels of ADHD and the coexisting diagnoses vary kid to kid. Follow your own instincts.</p>
<p>For certain, momma-three knows her child better than anyone!! </p>
<p>Following one’s own instincts is good advice. On the other hand, the mom is coming here because she is challenged and has followed her own instincts for a while and is seeking advice as to what to do next. She can gather ideas and take what appeals to her or makes sense and discard the rest. She can seek advice from a therapist as well. If parents were only to follow their own instincts, they would not be posting on CC seeking guidance and input. In my view, use the input that appeals to you, as you realize what you have been doing so far is not yielding the results you hope for.</p>
<p>Momma3- I think the present expectations are a bit OTT. </p>
<p>Not to get off topic, but blaming behavioral problems on ADHD is not appropriate. ADHD kids should be held to the same behavioral expectations of any other kids. Sk8trmom and I must have the same kid. Though I’ll have to say, mine is not willing to make the adjustments that her son has. But, he has to live with the consequences.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Last summer, the daughter screamed obscenities at the mother while in the driveway in front of neighbors. I don’t think this behavior was caused by ADHD, and excusing it as ADHD really isn’t helping the situation.</p>
<p>The flip side is that that particular fight broke out when mom and dad took back the car. Since they’ve given it back to her, perhaps the big temper tantrum worked.</p>
<p>I also think the ADHD is more related to school matters and some things but not all the problems they are having with the D. But ADHD or not, her behavior must be dealt with. If anything, a kid with ADHD needs stricter limits. But I don’t believe that ADHD prevents someone her age from living on their own. The mom says the D handles her jobs just fine. She sounds like she functions all right. </p>
<p>Anyway, I don’t agree with debrockman to not offer suggestions and such. The parent came here seeking help and support. Since debrockman has a child with ADHD, she might have suggestions too, though she hasn’t offered them. Every child and situation is different of course and none of us can know this child or even the full situation other than what was presented here. But this is a message board and people seek input all the time, particularly those who start threads, as this mom has many times. I think it is wonderful the outpouring of people who are respectfully offering input. The mom has the option to take the input or leave it or pick and choose. Hopefully, she has gotten some food for thought on these threads she has started.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, it might be ADHD related…which is an explanation but not really an excuse! Not to derail the thread , but my S gets frustrated and can have a VERY short fuse, leading to what we term “alien” behavior, when he fails to manage his condition. I generally know within a few minutes if he’s neglected to take his medication, although it’s a fairly mild one. We’ve also noticed that, medication or not, he doesn’t have the same emotional reactions/responses when he’s overtired or has not been eating well. Although his anger has not caused serious damage (beyond a few holes in his bedroom wall, which he did have to repair), the short fuse is of particular concern because of his size and strength. No one, especially S, wants to wind up in a situation where he’s destroyed property or hurt someone! I think ADHD-management is something that has to be looked at holistically because it can affect so many areas of one’s life. </p>
<p>We are very fortunate that his primary care doc is a family member and has a close relationship with S - that has helped greatly to reinforce the idea that his condition is manageable but ultimately must be managed by him! He also recommended a clinic in our area that mainly works with adults with recently diagnosed ADHD, depression, etc. and they seem to have a fairly holistic view as well. We haven’t found it necessary for him to seek additional help yet but, from their literature and website, they are staffed with both MDs and PhDs who work together and focus on finding the right medications and on developing life management/emotional balancing skills. If he starts finding life unmanageable or begins exhibiting signs of emotional problems, I will definitely make an appointment there…it’s my “plan B” and S has already agreed to go if his doc and I feel it’s needed.</p>
<p>Fwiw, one thing that has been particularly helpful to us is having the kid keep a journal - just a quick jot of medication, sleep, eats, exercise, and basically how they’re feeling that day (angry, tired, don’t give a d%#m). Then they can discuss things with their doc/therapist factually or just refer to it and see, in their own words, what works for them and what they need to avoid if they want to stay on a more even keel. I reminded him to do this for the first week or so but never asked to read it, so he’s free to write whatever he wants or nothing at all. When he was a bit younger, I kept my own journal on the subject and it helped me to see the connections between all the various aspects of his life and demeanor, remember questions/research, and just to remember the good days during those particularly trying times! His doc says S often does make notes when he’s having a bad day and has learned from it.</p>
<p>The reality that the OP’s D can function well in a work setting while still causing a huge amount of disruption at home is telling. She probably understands, at a rather deep level, that work would have no tolerance for that kind of behavior, and so she doesn’t exhibit it there. At home, however, she’s effectively gotten away with it quite well, so why change what’s working from her perspective? I know it is tough, but at some point limits have to be set or you end up enabling and encouraging exactly the behaviors you are most trying to get over. And if she loves lectures but doesn’t like the out-of-classroom work, a gift certificate to The Learning Company could provide some real benefit at a lot less cost than any college. The lectures are excellent, and nobody expects or wants you to turn in term papers. You listen when you want, and get some pretty fabulous presentations.</p>
<p>Frankly, I’m not so sure I’m convinced that she likes lectures for the sake of the lecture. Mom says she sleeps in until noon or 2 most every day. That means she probably misses half of her classes. It’s really hard to create a class schedule where your classes start at 2 each day.</p>
<p>Part of the draw of going to classes is also the social element, like “where’s the party this weekend?”, as well as hanging out with friends, and meeting people.</p>
<p>My roommate in college once proclaimed, “College would be the perfect lifestyle except for exams, homework, and lectures!”</p>
<p>I haven’t read all the posts on this thread, so apologies if this is redundant, but ADHD often coexists with many other learning, behavioral, cognitive and personality disorders. Its kind of like saying you are going to diagnose and treat the runny nose, but not the fever or muscle aches that are all part of the diagnosis of the flu. The behaviors described in the posts I have read sound like more than just what would be explained by ADHD, with some family dynamics thrown into the mix. Individual situations vary significantly. Families who have been through similar struggles with their kids and families can give you their perspective from the view of their family dynamics and situation, but IMO, that too needs to be taken with a serious grain of salt, as it may be totally irrelevant to the OP’s daus and family situation.</p>
<p>** Just saw GTalum’s post above. Totally agree. Ascribing the lions share of all these unacceptable behaviors to ADHD is not appropriate. The behavior needs to change, but there has to be a reason for it to change. If the behavior is tolerated, it won’t change.</p>
<p>botw-</p>
<p>My uncle used to say “don’t let your classes get in the way of your college education”. LOL</p>
<p>My daughter was home for about an hour today and we discussed her moving out. We have some things to work out regarding the financial end of it but we are in agreement that she needs to be on her own. My husband is not in agreement but I think he will come around. It was a calm discussion but of course the part about the bills have not yet been brought up. We don’t want to see her too stressed because that will not benefit her moving forward or the relationship that we hope to see improve. </p>
<p>You have all been wonderful and as always I hear every word that each of you have posted…and I thank you for your feedback. Wishing all of you a most joyous holiday season with your loved ones…and may the New Year bring peace and better times for our all.</p>
<p>momma three I am glad to hear that a calm discussion was possible. I wish you a wonderful holiday season, and a peaceful New Year.</p>
<p>Sounds like progress! Hope things move in a positive direction. Enjoy the holidays.</p>
<p>My daughter visited her boyfriends home yesterday for Christmas. She was gone less than an hour and was home. When she came in the door she looked visably upset and I thought “here comes the drama.” I saw it coming…something told me that hell was ready to break loose. The visit was to wish her boyfriend a Merry Christmas and bring him the gift that she bought him and a little something for his parents. My husband nudged me and told me not to approach her, but I did.</p>
<p>The boyfriend once again gave her a gift that she would have liked when she was 16 but has long past outgrown…lets just say that pale pink and hearts just don’t appeal to her anymore. I told her it was a very sweet gift and that he is a student who is on a tight budget. She went on to say that his gifts have all been hearts in some shape or form and that no matter how hard she hints he just doesn’t get that she is not the same girl she was at 16. Her gift to him a lovely money clip from Tiffanys (he hinted that he had wanted one so that he did’nt need to carry a wallet all the time.) </p>
<p>When I went upstairs she looked like she was ready to cry. She went on to say that the only time he spends money is when he benifits from the spending in some way. I said that not all men are good gift givers and many do not see the need to purchase jewelry. She went on to mention how it was not the gift that had her upset it was what the gift represented at this stage of their relationship. I understood what she was saying but I also understand finances. She said it had nothing to do with the price of the gift but rather the symbol of the gift…she wanted something that she felt reflected who they are rather than who they were. I personally thought that the gift reflected the age that she projects most of the time. It was a nice gesture but it is not something that would be worn instead of what she currently wears but in his defense he is a student until May and I would think that money is tight. I mentioned that again and the flood waters opened. It looks like there is alot going on in regard to the boyfriend. Daughter and I are having lunch today…her request. I hope that we will discuss plans for moving out but I also think she wants to discuss the boyfriend.</p>
<p>momma-3,
Can I refer to you to the Cafe and the section on awkward gifts? Your dtr went out of her way to buy him an epensive gift that he wanted, but he didn’t listen to her wants. She could have bought him a money clip at a discount store and bought things for people who truly love her. Instead, he bought her something for a young teen.</p>
<p>Some suggestions for nonjudgmental listening:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Reflective</a> Listening](<a href=“http://www.analytictech.com/mb119/reflecti.htm]Reflective”>Reflective Listening)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>indicates nonacceptance of D’s perspective. This is a judgmental approach to listening.</p>
<p>A nonjudgmental, accepting comment might have been to reflect back what she said to you:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There is a lot available on this listening technique: google “reflective listening.”</p>
<p>I had a similar argument with my boyfriend this past year. He tends to approach gift giving as “okay, I have this much to spend, what should I get?” and seems to grab the first thing he sees in that price range with no thought involved for what I would actually want even though there are DOZENS of things right within reach at or below his price range that I would obviously like very much-- often things that I have pointed right out and said, “here, this is a christmas idea.” I would rather he buy a $2 used DVD and a box of popcorn and watch it with me than buy something expensive with no thought for what I would want, then it just doesn’t mean anything. His response to this is to spend four times as much money and call it even, OR to get annoyed that I am being financially unreasonable even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the money. It’s nothing I would cry about but it is sometimes frustrating-- though in our case he blows off getting my gift and then gets pouty because he sees how much more thought out my gift for him was and then he feels inadequate, which is just really obnoxious-- that’s what starts the arguments. </p>
<p>Think of it this way, it sounds like her annoyance is more about the relationship than exactly about the gift. Aren’t you in disapproval of this relationship? Maybe you’re getting your way and she’s rethinking it.</p>
<p>I’m sorry that I was rushed this morning. Here is a little more.</p>
<p>The point of reflective listening:</p>
<p>Reflecting back accurately proves that the listener understands. The speaker is not alone; someone understands. </p>
<p>It is okay if the reflection is not perfectly accurate; the speaker can then clarify.</p>
<p>Reflecting back nonjudgmentally shows that the listener is a safe person; the speaker can take the risk of discussing feelings without having to defend, without having to face rejection or criticism. The listener is not agreeing or disagreeing; the listener is accepting and understanding.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Reflective</a> Listening](<a href=“http://www.huntel.net/rsweetland/cman/verbal/refllistng.html]Reflective”>http://www.huntel.net/rsweetland/cman/verbal/refllistng.html)</p>
<p>How to use reflective listening techniques (brief):</p>
<p>[How</a> to Use Reflective Listening Techniques | eHow.com](<a href=“http://www.ehow.com/how_2314760_use-reflective-listening-techniques.html]How”>http://www.ehow.com/how_2314760_use-reflective-listening-techniques.html)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.compassionandsupport.org/pdfs/professionals/training/ReflectiveListening.pdf[/url]”>http://www.compassionandsupport.org/pdfs/professionals/training/ReflectiveListening.pdf</a></p>