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<p>If the D had been diagnosed with a mental illness, I must have missed that. Is that the case?</p>
<p>She has been in treatment and has not stuck with it long enough to get anywhere, but yes.</p>
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<p>This is an anonymous internet board. This is true for all the advice on all the threads. Your point? The OP is posting, venting, and asking for responses. We are responding. It is what it is. The illness, the counseling, the missed appointments have all been explained. OP still posts and we try to respond. None of us are giving professional advice, even those of use who are professionals at this, we are simply posting.</p>
<p>The daughter has not been drug tested and we do not know if she uses drugs or not. Given her behavior, she very well could abuse substances.</p>
<p>My point? If you don’t have a child with significant mental of emotional issues, or have professional training with kids who do, you should not give advice. Sympathy, yes. Compassion, yes. And the post about drug use? Drug use is often a symptom…not the root cause. My daughter used drugs and alcohol to self-medicate ADHD after an abusive relationship. She doesn’t use at ALL anymore.</p>
<p>babyontheway…She has dabbled with pot and I have found it in my car that she uses. I do not believe there is much use of pot but who knows…I could be wrong. However as Debrockman pointed out my daughter is on antidepressants and medicine for ADHD. She always seems lethargic yet she keeps going like the ever ready battery from work to school to meeting to partying. When she does have time off she can sleep 14 to 15 hours in a day. She does not appear to have manic behavior and I did speak to her doctor about that. He does believe she has executive function problems. It is hard to really tell with her because her behavior is often confusing to me. She could seem very resonsible with some things and totally irresponsible with other things. School is anxiety provoking which is why my husband fears that if she had to manage on her own doing everything for herself and attend school and work that she would be back to the mess we had when she came home after her year at the LAC. It is a tough spot to be in because we are really trying to do what is best for her but what seems best is really causing her to stay a much younger girl. </p>
<p>Our sons have been more than wonderful with their sister but when she is terrible to me they just call her out on that. I realize that my sons are very concerned about me being upset and they don’t want to see my health effected. They must feel awful being in the middle they tell us that she needs to be on her own and they tell her that she has it easy here and she should appreciate it and us. They just want to see the happiness restored to our family and I understand that feeling. My house use to be the place where all of their friends gathered but with all of the stress they don’t invite their friends here anymore. This has been since the mid summer when the two younger sons would come home for weekends. </p>
<p>I just hate seeing what this is doing to us as a family and I am angry with myself for not having a handle on what to do anymore. My daughter makes me crazy but she has come a long way…even if it does not sound that way. This will be the last break home for one of my sons before he leaves for work overseas. He has a two year contract and it is very likely that we will only see him once in that two years. I am going to miss him terribly because he is such a diplomatic kid (messy but very kind and loving) who really feels the energy of the household. I would hate to think that he would be relieved to leave because of all of this. My oldest son is moving out in February (he paid off his loans and saved for a cushion) and that leaves one son that will come home in May for about a year (to pay off his loans and save some money). Ours sons are wonderful and have always been very kind and that is why this bothers me so much. It hurts to know that the family could be what it was if my daughter was doing O.K.</p>
<p>Regardless of whatever her issues may be, what the symptoms or causes are, the way that she stirs trouble in your house is unacceptable. I don’t think the behavior is unexcuseable at all.</p>
<p>The troubles with functioning refer to how she performs at college. I haven’t heard that she can’t manage her job or house on her own without troubles. In fact, just about everything you’ve had trouble with involves college. To me, not funding college (which is a disaster every quarter) sounds like the trick. Then, if she is highly motivated and wants to return, she can in the future. But not today.</p>
<p>debrockman,
It’s a public message board. The OP has started many threads and people are supporting her and making some suggestions with good will. The OP knows this is not a professional “service.” She can pay to see the therapist for that. This mom is choosing to talk with other parents. I think most of us realize kids are not all the same. I don’t have the same struggles with my kids as the OP has and I feel for her situation and challenges. I don’t expect her kid to react or behave exactly like my kids. But as outside observers, I think there have been many good suggestions on this thread from parent to parent. </p>
<p>Further, I have not read about a major mental illness with this young woman. She sees a counselor but so do many kids. I don’t know that she has the same issues as your D, debrockman, and haven’t read about alcohol or drug abuse from the OP. Nobody is suggesting to feed the girl to the wolves and to “put her out.” People are suggesting to not pay upfront for college if the D doesn’t do the work. Let her pay and reimburse her if she succeeds, if she truly wants to attend school (hard to tell as mom says she is not into doing the work). People are saying that at this age, living at home is not allowing the D to grow independent which is what kids over age 18 need to do. The level of parental involvement appears to be more like what one would expect in high school, not for a college kid. Parents don’t need to cut the D off but need to help support her making plans for next semester within boundaries and expectations they set forth. This girl seems free to do whatever she pleases and it is time to mature. Parents can continue to pay for therapy, agree to pay for two months’ expenses until she gets a job and her apartment lined up, or if she prefers school, help her to take out some loans with the understanding that they will pay them back if she finishes. Now, if a therapist says the girl is too mentally ill to live independently, I’d listen to the therapist of course. The mom has not provided any such indications. A third party could help mediate putting some concrete plans and expectations in place. </p>
<p>Another benefit to the D not living at home is that it might lessen the amount of conflict in daily life for her and for the parents. It is too toxic right now. They both seem mad at one another. Hopefully, with third party intervention, they can problem solve next steps that are concrete, rather than come off as “negative consequences for being a bad child.” She needs to feel love and supported but part of that love and support is to set clear expectations and boundaries of what the parents will and won’t do, etc. </p>
<p>Momma-three, I hope this is not too senstive of a question and if so, opt to not answer it, but I am curious about your member name being “momma-three” when you have FOUR kids. I realize your D likely doesn’t read CC, but if she did or knew you gave yourself such a “name,” it might hurt, but maybe there is a logical explanation. Subtle messages like that might be going through to your D. She knows you are unhappy with her but hopefully she realizes you love and embrace her and want to help her go the next step to adulthood, and that is a loving, not mean thing to do. It’s time and she will benefit in the long run and hopefully the dynamics will ease up with her growing independence. The BF is not the issue, in my opinion. I would ignore that aspect and not worry about it or blame him for this or that . If she goes to live with him, that is not so terrible!</p>
<p>Vent as much as you wish here and hopefully you might find nuggets here and there from other parents that might be useful. Talking with the therapist to help set up some plans for your D would be helpful and likely a relief for you.</p>
<p>Agree with putting college on hold for the time being. You say she has trouble handling college. Let her handle apartment living and a job for the short term and reassess after that.</p>
<p>I think that there have also been some really poor suggestions. Momma…with a husband who is a radiologist, we have become very interested in the whole physiology of ADHD. There appears to be a part of the brain in kids with ADHD that has not thickened at the same rate of other people. There also appears to be a lot of evidence that the physiology of the ADHD kid will normally catch up to the “normal” kid. Not sure exactly yet WHY it happens…they think pesticides, something in the mother’s diet…still figuring out that part. But the good news…MOST kids with ADHD DO improve…and it sounds like you ARE seeing improvement. And to soozie…my daughter functioned at a VERY high level…NM Scholar, Varsity National Champion Athlete…just always seemed a little fragile…a little immature…and then she was raped. Trauma on top of ADHD often leads to eating disorders. Lots of medical evidence to support that many eating disorders coexist with ADHD and anxiety. If this young woman is pushed beyond her ability to manage, she could spiral out of control. Read a little bit about adult ADHD. It is often at the core of what a lot of people label as immaturity, impulse control and bad behavior.</p>
<p>debrockman, I feel for you in what you dealt with with your own daughter. But her case is not the same as this other young woman. This mom has not mentioned drug or alcohol abuse, eating disorders, trauma like rape and so on. I realize ADHD is an issue. Many young adults have that and still do not live with their parents during the college years. They may be on medication, have therapists, get special assistance at their colleges, and so on. I realize this is not the same as all other kids who do not have ADHD. But it is also not the same as all kids who do have ADHD. Even your child was doing well in school. This girl is not and school may not be the right thing for her right now. They may need to try something else and set new boundaries and expectations. They haven’t tried her living on her own, working, yet. That is worth a try. If it is local, the parents are there as back up support as necessary but they are helping her go the next step. As far as being pushed which you say will possibly make her spiral out of control…I don’t see it as being “pushed.” Right now, this girl has NO limits. Setting boundaries, limits, expectations, etc. should help her.</p>
<p>soozievt…Someone else asked me that once before and the reason is pretty simple I went on another message board where momma four was already used so I just went with momma-three. I used the same name on this forum because it was easy to just remember one name. My kids refered to me as momma when they were young so the number was not the reason for my name.</p>
<p>Actually she has done well at her CC and was doing well until she just ran out on the end of the semester. For all I know the work may have been accepted and she still may have done fine. Is the school a lesser school than she is really capable of…probably. She has not had to strain much this semester.</p>
<p>Another thing…now that you say this young woman has ADHD, and since she is living under the parents’ supervision…and they know she doesn’t time manage well with schoolwork…they could have not let her go out for the weekend until her final papers were done (that is very high school-ish type parenting but maybe that is the stage she is at and needs limits due to ADHD that other kids would not need at this age). But it seems like she can do anything she wants and she knows her parents will pay for it. If anything, she needs stronger limits than a typical young person.</p>
<p>I cross posted with you. I would have a calm discussion and ask D if she really WANTS to be in college. Is this something she perceives you want or that she feels is expected or does she really like going to college. I can’t tell by your posts. You sometimes say she is not into schoolwork at all. But it sounds like maybe she does want to be in school? Does she want to be in school as it is something to do and parents support ya when you are in school? Does she have a career aspiration? If she really truly wants to be in college, and if you find paying for it to be a risk as she may not see it through, find a way to set up the financing where she pays and if successful, you reimburse her. But in other ways, it sounds like school may not be the place for her right now and that she is not very into it. I’d want to hear IF she wants to be in school and why. But paying for college carte blanche even if she looses credits is something most parents are not willing to do and so some sort of limits need to be set as to what you will do for her and what you won’t.</p>
<p>Since she is back from her weekend she has spent maybe 2 hours in the house. She sleeps, eats, and goes to her part time job than spends all her time with her boyfriend. My husband had asked her if she could pick something up for us and she said yes…still has not come home to pick up the money to go get it. She texted me to say that her boyfriend had errands to run and she was off helping him. She has yet to get a Christmas gift for him or a little something for his parents, and her co worker. These are the types of things that concern me about her behavior. She just does not cue in to thoughtfulness for anyone. I thought I always did a good job teaching all of my kids this…but something just didn’t click. </p>
<p>My daughter likes sitting in lectures but hates doing work. I would say that is a problem.</p>
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<p>Why do you care about all of this?</p>
<p>You raised her, and she is the person she is today. You can’t change her and you need to accept her for who she is.</p>
<p>Here’s my take (for what it’s worth) on the vignettes in post 215…</p>
<p>If your D lived outside the home, as many do at her age, you really would not know how much time she spent with her BF (and many do spend a lot of time together particular when there are not classes like right now) and stuff like that. While my kids share and tell me lots, I don’t know exactly how much time was spent with BF and every minute of their day. I would know if they were at home (but they haven’t lived here since high school, not even in summers). I can see how maybe some of that bothers you but really she is beyond the age of having to account to you how she is spending her “down time.” You only know such detail because she is at home. And she likely doesn’t want to spend a lot of time with you because of the friction/conflicts and she sees you quite often (a zillion times more often than my Ds see me) and even so, lots of kids this age would prefer to spend time with their peers and significant others rather than their parents. </p>
<p>If you did ask her to run an errand for you, she should be expected to do that, yes. </p>
<p>As far as your D getting gifts for this one or that one and waiting to the last minute…yes, I can see some frustration in observing this, but lots of kids do this!! (for that matter, lots of adults do too!) Again, you’d be less privy to these details if she were living on her own. I have no clue if my D got her BF a gift. And yes, my younger D (who has no mental illness) frustrates me sometimes too in this kind of a way. For example, she is late in sending us or other important family members birthday cards, despite many reminders. She does this a lot. I’ve talked to her about it many times. Her sister doesn’t do this. It is not the worst thing but yeah, it is bothersome. Or for instance, she received holiday gift money from my brothers and they contacted me to find out if she got it yet as they have not received thank you’s yet (about a week after she received it) and I had to ask her about it and she hadn’t done it yet but was going to and has now (granted, my niece also did not thank me in a timely way either…same exact age in fact). My other D would do it immediately. These are not big things and part of it is their personality and they are worth mentioning to them but honestly, lots of them do stuff like this. But in my case, I don’t know every little thing as D has been living on her own since she left for college at 16 1/2. My girls share a LOT about what’s going on in their lives but not every detail of who they saw and when. So, while I can feel for some of the frustrations you JUST mentioned, they are not that big or not so unusual for this age for SOME kids. </p>
<p>As far as school…you say she hates doing the work. Ask her if she really wants to go to college since, well, it does involve a lot of work. On the other hand, I don’t know if the criteria should be what you observe about her doing the work or simply getting her report card (we just saw the semester grades and were not privy to every college assignment!). I’ll admit my kids are very motivated and high achievers, but even so, in your case, IF (and I wonder about this “if”), she has decent grades…over 3.0? then as long as she earns the credits and half way decent grades, she should be allowed to continue. I am not clear your criteria…is it seeing her work hard or is it the final grades. As long as her grades are OK, the rest is not as important and typically you would not be privy to how much she was studying if she lived in a dorm. The proof is in the grades. Now, if her grades are poor, different story. Put her on your own “probation” and if grades don’t rise to X amount, college is on her dime. </p>
<p>The other nitty gritty stuff is stuff you need to let go of and she needs to be more in charge of her life and normally parents are not as involved or privy to these details when their kids live away from home. (example, D2 used to drive me nuts in how much she would lose stuff back when she was growing up at home…but now that she is out on her own, she likely STILL loses lots of stuff but I just don’t know about it and so I don’t get as aggravated with her and we mostly have enjoyable phone calls!!).</p>
<p>As the parent of an ADHD kid, I have to say that I agree with soozievt. Mine has excelled in some areas (certain academic subjects, recruited athlete) but does need more structure and discipline than other kids. This doesn’t mean that I stand over him every day and micromanage him though! He’s 18 and knows that he has to follow his routine, take his meds, sleep and eat properly, use electronic reminders and other cues to get certain tasks accomplished, etc. - I thought that was all part of the standard training for ADHD kids/parents, but maybe not. Anyway, I have never given him a “pass” for boorish behavior because he has ADHD…if anything, I probably set the bar a bit higher simply because he can be very trying at times, to his family, coworkers, coaches,and teachers. He’s a handsome and personable kid and that buys him a good bit of grace when it comes to dealing with the ADHD. We’ve agreed that it’s important that he realizes that but does not take advantage of others because of it. He’s paid his dues and doesn’t have a problem remembering the consequences he suffered as a result of bad behavior, forgetting meds, staying out too late, etc and therefore avoids falling into those traps! Btw, he is moving into his own off-campus apartment this summer and is learning not to be impulsive with his money…there will be no extra parental bailouts!</p>
<p>Not saying my kid is the poster child for everyone with ADHD, but I just can’t see how giving them slack, when the world will not, is going to help them be responsible adults…YMMV</p>
<p>babyontheway…I care that she did’nt ask if there was something she could do to help us. While she was out running around she could have picked up the gift certificate at the restaurant that is five towns away. It is almost 6:00 and I will need to run out and get it…45 min there and 45 min back…I think that she is being very selfish.</p>
<p>I don’t give her slack because of the ADHD. I gave her slack when she came home and was diagnosed with depression. I’m not even sure if I would call it slack as much as I would say that every kid gets parented differently because of the traits they exhibit. Thats why no two kids in a household are the same…loved the same but don’t turn out the same. I have one son who is a slob (stuff all over the place) another who is a clean freak, and one who is neither a slob or a neat freak. Daughter has become a slob and will only clean her room when she can’t find the floor. The same holds true with values…you teach them all the same but it sticks differently with different kids. One of my kids writes especially beautiful cards to my husband and myself…the others not as much but they are more demonstrative with their affection. All different all raised by the same parents.</p>
<p>^^^Don’t do it yourself. Insist that before she shows up tonight, she must have that in hand as she said she was going to do it and you counted on it and can’t do it and need her to help out. Hold her to it.</p>
<p>She is 20 (21?)…she has to be held accountable. She can’t just freeload on you guys and not comply with reasonable things you asked her to do to pitch in and help out. If she wants to live under your roof, she has to comply with certain rules and expectations and pitch in. If she doesn’t want to, then she can live on her own and make her own rules. If she doesn’t come through as promised, take car privileges away or something of that sort. She’s not a little kid anymore, but is an adult living with other adults and each have to take on some of the responsibilities…make that clear and what will happen if she doesn’t.</p>