<p>Regardless of whether the daughter’s actions are, in fact, dangerous or not, ie…oversleeping is not life-threatening, not turning in a paper is not life-threatening…M-3 REACTS as if it is a crises.</p>
<p>She is triggered.</p>
<p>I’ve seen this before.</p>
<p>Regardless, she needs help. The family needs help.</p>
<p>We are not the help she “needs.”</p>
<p>I hope she will get the help she needs.</p>
<p>It seems, at this point, that getting some distance and perspective on the situation would be the best idea. As I said, I would send someone having this type of consistent reaction to every single stressor, as if they are all equally major, to a treatment facility. But, that’s just me.</p>
<p>Also, is the OP the same that has previously posted long threads with issues with siblings,elderly father,etc. Sorry if I’m wrong on that. If so,there is lots of drama in the family. Hope issues resolve soon and that there is peace soon.</p>
<p>I feel badly for m-3 in a lot of ways because she is in the midst of a very stressful, frustrating, upsetting, and traumatizing dynamic and feeling stuck. And I think it is much easier for us on the outside to rationally look at things and share suggestions of what m-3 could or should be doing in these difficult situations. But it is so much harder when you are in the middle of the madness of these dynamics. It can be very difficult and even immobilizing. My hope is that m-3 can get the support and guidance of a professional involved and also that even this message board may help with support with suggestions that encourage m-3 from those who are not in the midst of the situation and can see things more rationally. m-3 may be helped by reading these messages (and she did seek out support) and then getting real time support from a therapist. I don’t think she can do this on her own even though it is easy to say, “do this”…she finds it hard to do it…patterns have been established…who knows if her H will work with her on it (could be siding with D?)…it’s difficult. She definitely needs to do something different. Many good suggestions have come up on this thread and then a therapist may be able to guide her through the steps in person and she’ll know she has support here. She has to stick to her guns and in order to do so, she’ll need some support as she has not been able to do this before and it just needs intervention and a new approach. I do think it is difficult to put in place even though it doesn’t sound so difficult to us who read about it but it is very hard when you in the middle of this kind of dynamic.</p>
<p>poetgrl, I have to agree with the observation that momma-three does seem to react that certain things are a major crisis which don’t seem that major to me…D got B’s and not A’s…D passed work in late…D skipped a class…D spent weekend with BF right before finals.Yes, these things are frustrating but many young people do these things. They are not that major. I’m not saying to condone them but they are not a major crisis. And honestly, if D were living away at college, the parents would not know all these irritating things. D would have some independence to make these choices and live with the consequences. I truly think the D needs to live on her own and have a set of responsibilities and expectations. She wants a car…she can pay for it and the insurance. Some things the D has done (the talking back and sense of entitlement) sound bad and other things sound immature and spoiled (and she has gotten away with it), but not really mental illness. As far as the accident…perhaps she really just had an accident due to a mistake. But I’d check the cell phone records and if it was determined she was using a cell at any point during her drive, then no driving privileges and no paying for insurance. </p>
<p>Anyway, right now, there is so much turmoil and conflict daily in the home and so just getting the D out in a dorm or apartment is some breathing room for all.</p>
<p>Sounded to me like m3 was reacting like she had finally had enough!! She was posting here to vent about the oversleeping (even did so on the “say it here” thread) I think many of us “vent” here without necessarily reacting the same way in the “real world” like something is a crisis. I heard her being pi$$ed off that dau was sleeping in and missing her class. I agree if the dau was not in the home whe would not know. This is the way it should be. She needs to not have thsi irresponsible behavior in her face all the time. M3 has had enough (or sounds like it) but is still not able to get dau out if husband wont agree. Herein lies the real problem, IMO</p>
<p>Yes, the H seems to be saying if they have D live on her own, they won’t be able to keep tabs on her. But by age 20, they really shouldn’t be keeping tabs on her daily life. She has to learn to live responsibly and deal with natural consequences. How will she ever learn if parents are keeping tabs past age 20? And what good does it do anyway? Even under their own roof, she gets away with whatever she wants and just irritates them all the while.</p>
<p>You didn’t cause it, you can’t control it and you can’t cure it.
As much as M3 wants to save her D the only person she has any power over is herself.</p>
<p>Momma-3- when my life was turned upside down I and I felt only fear I would say the Serenity prayer over and over again. Everytime I woke up in the middle of the night and the obsessive thinking took hold I would say the serenity prayer over and over in my head. Another thing I did was get out some of the Al Anon daily readers and read about detachment and setting boundaries. And as scared as I was I would go to meetings.
The Serenity Prayer
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.
Hope all is calm tonight in Momma three’s household</p>
<p>You guys might want to reread posts #1 and #6. First, the Husband says HE wants her out of the house. In post #6 M-3 references not having slept for two days because of the daughter’s not handing in homework.</p>
<p>Well, regardless of whether or not the daughter simply needs to move out of the house, which is what I think, the real point is that she has not moved out of the house. The real point, at this point, because M-3 is the only one we are talking to, is that M-3 needs some help. She needs treatment for her co-dependency issues. But real “treatment.” At least based on what she is saying on this thread.</p>
<p>If this 20 year old were not still at home, alot of this drama would probably be avoided. If my sons were still at home and I had to keep close tabs on what my 20 and 23 year old sons were up to when out of the house,I’m sure I would be VERY anxious. When they are home for holidays,breaks, I am always more anxious because I see firsthand that they are out and about,getting in at odd hours,etc. Did the 3 sons never cause any worries?</p>
<p>Maybe Momma-three should go back to college herself. Then she could focus on her homework, her assignments, her classes, and not have to worry about the daughters. And it’d give her mind something else to worry about.</p>
<p>Happened to notice that momma-three was online here for about 20 minutes or so this morning (around 7 am) but didnt choose to post an update. That is certainly her right, but several posters here have expressed worry and concern. Maybe m-3 was showing dad/husband all the feedback that they need to get on the same page and get the process moving for dau to live on her own!</p>
<p>Jym, Yes I am back. I was responding to a PM. I left yesterday to get out from the craziness and let my husband deal with the mess. He is the one who is not willing to put his foot down and say “you must go”. I do not want my daughter to have another car nor do I want to make life too convinent so that she thinks the real world is going to be like this. </p>
<p>My daughter is the problem and my husband is feeding into her and allowing this to continue. I am ready to let go in the sense that I no longer believe my daughter is in danger of hurting herself. I am not going to responsible for allowing her to hurt others. She is on her own with regard to ever driving a car that belongs to us. If my husband buys a car for my daughter I am preapred to disable it and than leave. He knows that I am serious about this. I have told my daughter that car situation can be easily remedied by moving to the town that her college is located and she could get a job there. I am not looking to fix this. I have fixed enough and I am in no way a battered woman. I am not battered by my daughter although she has been physically abusive. I am not abused my my father because he has neither laid a hand on me and his attitude of entitlement was not something that was ever out of hand…just frustrating because with four kids my dad has been another source of me being spread too thin. </p>
<p>I also have my own business that I have turned into a good source of support for the expenses and college education of my children. I am not a doormat although many of my posts do sound like I am. I am a very strong and capable woman who has had a son who has been sick for years and doing well now,thank God. I have seen three of my four kids attend great schools and one has graduated and two are about to. All three of my sons have done very well. I have survived cancer, took care of a sister who died from cancer who lost her husband two years prior to cancer, I took care of a father in law who had dementia for several months untill he died. I kept a family together who was on the brink of foreclosure and busted my butt to pull us out and get my husband who was very successful in his career to join me and together we grew a business that far exceeded our initial goal. We have provided a strong and loving family for not only our kids but for the family who has needed a hand either financially or a bed to recupperate in and care to be provided. We have done more than many, and have believed with all our heart that we could do this too. We were wrong. </p>
<p>We can’t help unless we help our daughter to see that life will never be as good to her as we have been, considering she is a nasty and entitled child. I said child because she acts like one, not because her age considers her a child. She needs to understand the difference from need and want. I want Hawaii but Hawaii will wait for this minute. It must wait but not for long. I want to go away when I could blissfully enjoy every minute of the peace that we need. That will happen when my daughter is out on her own. She will be fine once she realizes that she is not going to be bailed out. When we were two months away from losing our house I went to no one. I sat and worked my tail off to make a business work…endless tireless hours to ensure that the roof over our head and the dreams my children and we had all happened. It did happen. I am beyond proud that it happened. I am not weak I am one of the strongest hardest working people to accomplish as much as I have…sometimes alone but most of the time with my husband. Has the road been easy?..No but the joy has been huge. My son is healthy, three almost done and only one that has caused us grief. We have never had one ounce of aggrivation from three sons…so all in all we have done a good job. Do I have PTS syndrome…who knows maybe…I don’t have nightmares…I function with my business…deal with clients… and continue to care for my dad. Yes, I owe my dad that because I love him and he is my dad…if we don’t take care of our parents than we are nothing. It always isn’t fun but I do it because he cared for me for since birth until I moved out. He stood by my brother while he was a drug addict until he recovered. People take care of family…that is the way it is. My dad lost my mom when she was 61…the most wonderful woman I have ever known and a young daughter who was sick with cancer after giving birth to her youngest, and she died at age 50 with a secondary cancer. I have seen loss, alot of loss but I have memories that are glorious and had a life filled with love from the very people I lost. If I am tramatized than I am tramatized…I function very well for a tramutized person. I am sick to my stomach that my daughter is the one person that just can’t understand that life is not to be taken for granted and the people that have loved her the most are the people she hurts the most. Long post…alot of venting…but I am not weak just tired.
I have listened to the advice of every poster but the one thing that is not clear in my posts is who I am. I hoped I filled in some missing pieces.</p>
<p>M-3, I hope I haven’t given you the impression I believe you are “weak.” I have no indication of that, at all.</p>
<p>It is not weak, either, if you are slightly traumatized by all of this. It’s just human. It’s not weak to be human, or to need or ask for help when you “need” it.</p>
<p>You sound like you have a lot of clarity this morning around your daughter and her issues. I’m glad you also have some around your own issues and your own strength.</p>
<p>“This too shall pass,” though I’m sure not nearly fast enough. </p>
<p>You sound incredibly capable, M-3. This is just yet another very rough patch that you will come through. If posting here helps relieve any of the pressure/stress please continue. For everyone who posts, I bet you have 20 others who are thinking about you. I hope you can find moments of peace as you get this resolved.</p>
<p>Hang on, M-3. You will get through this, too.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope you have a peaceful day, even if that means getting out of the house to create peace for yourself. I hope your DH gets on the same page, and you can move forward in a good direction.</p>
<p>No Poetgirl…I did not. I read my own post and thought I sounded that way. I am frustrated and angry. I have had enough and I want my wonderful life back…even if it has some warts. My sons are an amazing trio and my daughter should be for all the love she has received and I am just PO that she thinks she has the right to do this to us or anyone. I will probably never feel at complete peace with my daughter wrecking havic on us, others, and herself. That is my problem…I know it is. I also know It is the hardest thing to do. I am not good at letting go. I have had no practice doing it because I always stand firm and move forward. If something needs to be done…I do it. What else have I known? My mom was the same way and she had the greatest relationships of anyone I have ever known. I miss her more than anything but she is my voice in the back of my head. She saved my brothers life…I know that he had to want to save his life but believe me she was the rock and the heart and the soul that never gave up…but she was prepared to let go if he did not want to remain drug free. I hear those words and they were said over 35 years ago.
This too will pass because I am not feeding my daughters need to control our lives. She will discover on her own that I am not giving in. Now my husband can deal with it or not and she will no one to hear her because he will tired of it quickly once he does not have me to take care of things. I am on strike so to speak…he will take over with many of the things that he is accustomed to me doing. No more scheduling for his things, or making space in the house to accommadate evryones need for space. I am no longer doing any of it and he will realize just how exhausting it is to work in the night, be a caretaker, listen to our daughter, and be in constant upset over a 20 year old daughter who is ungrateful. Life will go on in the way they choose but my life will go on the way I choose. It takes me time to sift through my many emotions and discount the real life stuff from the perceived stuff. The real life stuff is that I have done my job to the best of my ability with as much love as humanly possible. No one is in danger so it is time to back away and let the joy back in. It is freeing to reach this point.</p>
<p>Momma-Three, Have a good day. I believe there will be a day in your life when you look back on this and see it as another hurdle you crossed. I believe your daughter will pull it together, but if she doesn’t, it wasn’t from the lack of a role model.</p>
<p>I haven’t posted on this thread, but have followed it, mostly. I’m very sorry for what you are going through, M3. You’ve had a tough road. I wonder if part of the problem is that you are usually so tough and capable in the face of adversity that you are more or less used to getting results on your own. I know your D and you have had individual counseling in the past, but I think Teri asked a very significant question, and I’d be interested to know the answer to it. </p>
<p>Many here have said that family counseling is a must - not just individual counseling. Your lastest post confirms that your husband is, at least in your opinion, a big part of why this situation continues. The dynamic is so bad right now that you are threatening not only your D with the consequences of her actions, but your H as well, but over things like cars, not getting the help you all desperately need (at least it sounds this way). So if i can ask a direct Q, is all this really happening outside the structure of consistent and recent family and/ or marriage counseling? Or is the problem that your H refuses to go or refuses to spend the additional funds? If so, that’s where you need to draw your line, IMO.</p>
<p>M-3, I have been following this post from the beginning. Sometimes I am sympathetic towards you; sometimes I am sympathetic towards your daughter. </p>
<p>From you last post I see you setting yourself up as a martyr. Only you can save your daughter, family, finances, etc. You even say that while you want to go to Hawaii, you can’t / won’t until your daughter is ‘out on her own’.</p>
<p>Let your daughter go - physically and emotionally. She is stronger than you think and I believe she will eventually thrive being on her own. Provide housing (as promised) whether it is a dorm room or apartment. </p>
<p>Accept that she is not exactly like your Ivy League/MIT sons. She gets A’s and B’s and can hold a job. Who cares when and how she turns in her school work.</p>
<p>Let her deal with the boyfriend.</p>
<p>Live your own life. Go to Hawaii or somewhere for your anniversary (or just to get away).</p>
<p>This drama is just going around in circles. Fish or cut bait.</p>