<p>I want to add that I do think she needs to move out but even if she does, what’s to stop her from continuing her disruptive behaviors in some other way? Even if she is removed from the house, it is still in everyone’s best interest (especially hers) if there is limit setting and a redefinition of the relationships’ dynamics.</p>
<p>sk8rmom…No, I actually don’t think many people have these problems. My clients pride themselves on their parenting and well behaved children. This is my adult daughter…so I think it would be a very negative thing for them to see and extremely embarrassing for me. </p>
<p>When someone in your immediate family acts this way you really feel very alone and wonder what the heck you did to cause it or enable it or allow it. Of course there is literature and therapy that tells you sometimes it is what it is but the reality is that parents blame themselves for the problems of their kids. It really is just that way. I wish it was’nt but as much as I know I did’nt cause this I know I am allowing it to continue but even once she is out on her own this is not going to stop. It will just be the problem of who ever she lives with, works for, marries, etc… That is what I have accepted and it hurts to admit it. This feels like a life time sentence so I really need my husband to get on board before this escalates and causes us some serious financial problems that will effect not only him and I but the rest of our family. </p>
<p>My husband will be seeing this thread later today…I hope it helps him to see my words in print as well as the many helpful comments and suggestions posted here.</p>
<p>Well, in order to be able to make a change, YOU have to accept that the “problem” isnt going to go away if you keep on doing the same thing over and over again.</p>
<p>So, I can “see” why you believe it “will never go away.”</p>
<p>You never know, though. People really do change, and the front of her brain hasn’t completely grown in, yet, and this leads to impulsiveness. (Not saying at all that her behavior is to be tolerated, anymore, just saying, you never know.) Stranger things have happened than a kid going out and living like an adult and starting to act like one, as a consequence. I’d be more concerned if she hadn’t managed to maintain the job, convince professors to disregard late assignements and maintain a long term relationship with a boyfriend. All of these things are actually evidence that she is pretty capable of moderating her outbursts when necessary. :)</p>
<p>EPTR…I agree that simply moving out itself doesn’t solve all of this but it will help. Definitely still need to set limits and consequences. But it still should help if D is out of the home as she is forced to mature and be independent and secondly, these day to day conflicts would be lessened with her living her own life separately. For example, surely there should be a consequence if the D carries on when a client is over the house. But that situation would not even arise if D lived on her own as a young adult.</p>
<p>Admittedly, I have not been challenged with a kid like m-3’s D (though many have and she is not alone). However, even on a smaller scale, my D2 would be challenging at times or disrespectful or frustrate me and there were moments when she lived at home in high school that were not fun (thankfully not all the time!). But when she went off to college (at 16 1/2), I have noticed that these situations rarely arise anymore…(she is now 22)…and part of that is likely due to her maturing and part of it is likely due to the day to day stuff between parent and child just not arising because she lives an independent life. Now, our phone calls and visits are mostly all of a very pleasant nature. </p>
<p>Momma-three, I am glad you are showing your husband this thread. I am sure he also is frustrated with the situation but I think he will not only be able to see your feelings in print but also the many other people’s input on the situation and these are objective third party and I think there are some themes here that might help for hubby to read. I will say that I have some experience with a spouse not being on the same page when it comes to “discipline.” This can be a very tricky thing and difficult. If one parent wants to give consequences all in the name of helping child because this is what parents do and another parent doesn’t want to upset the child or ever say or do anything to child that is seen as negative, it is hard to take action. There is a triangle. It is so much better if the parents can be aligned. If you can’t be aligned, then the next best thing is to take action yourself and ask your husband to respect it even if he doesn’t agree with it. Just do it. Another idea is to go with husband to a counselor and try to come up with a plan for you both with the D. I think husband must at least agree that things are not going well. Now, you have to come to some agreement on new actions that are going to be taken and new limits that will be enforced. I would think your husband at the very least can’t be happy with how things are going and needs to be convinced that you guys need to do something different. Hopefully this thread might help.</p>
<p>Momma-three: I have been following this thread and not commenting because some of the other posters were making the same points I would have. I just wanted to voice my support. I’ve been in a somewhat similar situation with one of my children and I KNOW how hard it is to get past the feeling that they are still “fragile”. You seem to have done this but it may be part of what is holding your DH back. I can only add my voice to those who have already said that continuing to enable her is NOT helping her. They call it tough love for a reason - because it is tough. There are so many reasons to take steps to remove her from your home (and place of business) but perhaps the most important is that it is the only hope you have that she might ultimately realize that she needs to control her behavior. You may think you are doing this for yourself but perhaps it will help DH to understand that it is for your D also.</p>
<p>Not to restate the obvious but it isn’t that she CAN’t control herself (she’s not telling her boss or her professors to F themselves, for instance). It is that she WON’T control herself when she wants her way and someone in your family won’t give it to her. You can’t change her behavior - only she can. But you and DH can change the way you react to it. Hang in there.</p>
<p>And, FWIW, I wouldn’t pay another dime towards her education either. She is an adult and she is certainly entitled to pursue her degree in any way she wishes. She is not, however, entitled to continued support from you when she has behaved as she has. I know that sounds punitive because it is. There are consequences in life and it’s about time that she learned that. Maybe, somewhere down the road, you’ll help her pay back her student loans. But a lot would have to change before I would recommend that. I am known by my own children to be a pushover but I would cut either of them off financially if they treated me the way she has treated you.</p>
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<p>Great point. In all the discussions earlier in which it was stated emphatically(not by m-3) that the daughter’s behavior was “caused” by her ADHD, I thought it was very interesting that there seemed to be no acknowledgement of the fact that her ADHD seems to be well under control as it relates to finding jobs, performing well, and respecting her bosses and their policies. However, her ADHD apparently drives her to lose control when around her family or when related to something she does not value/enjoy.</p>
<p>Seems to me this kid is perfectly capable of behaving well when she is faced with clear boundaries and obvious consequences. She is no fool, though. It’s really not a question of why she behaves this way to her parents-the better question would be why wouldn’t she behave this way when it’s a sure method of getting exactly what her heart desires?</p>
<p>proudmom makes a point that I know I mentioned a while back on this thread but I think it is an important one… that D moving out is not just about making it better for the parents’ life, but it is in the best interests of the D in order for her to mature and be more independent and responsible. I would explain it that way to your husband, m-3…it is not so much a punitive measure as a measure to help your child change, mature, and move forward into adulthood. It is mostly about being beneficial to her, even though you will also benefit from her living on her own. I think she will manage because she has to. She seems to manage to hold a job, get decent grades, and maintain a long term relationship. Her behaviors toward you are the biggest issue that I can see.</p>
<p>However, another step of the plan is enforcing limits and consequences for behavior toward you.</p>
<p>Another in the camp of depression, anxiety and mental disorders are not an excuse for poor behavior and common courtesy. I have a sister who still to this day uses her depression as an excuse for poor behavior. She was perfect to the outside but let it all out on her family. Though the weird thing is when my Mom and Dad got sick she was the sibling who came and moved in and cared for them. She was a wonderful loving caregiver to my Mom. But it also suited my sister since she was out of work and broke.
Sometimes we know what we need to do long before we have the courage to make that change. Momma Three can not easily make her D move out without having her H in agreement. She can vacate the premises when her D gets unreasonable. She can control herself. She can control herself giving rides to her D but she cannot stop her spouse.
Small steps are okay.
Momma-three also believe that many of those who you think have such perfect lives and children have secrets of their own. That is true gift of Al Anon, FamiliesAnon and Coda. Find the fellowship that feels right for you. You will be surprised at the people you will find there. If only for the hour of serenity the meeting gives you. The first gift of a meeting can be the gift that for 1 hour your family can not reach you. Leave the cellphone in the car!
As far moving out and your H. Maybe there is a middle place you and your H can meet at. Instead of keeping the status quo or having her on her own completely figure out a compromise. Maybe look at what a shared room rents for in her college community. Offer to pay the rent for the entire semester. I am not talking about a nice apartment with her own room. Sharing a room in a multi- room house or apartment will be the cheapest option. Pay the rent directly to the landlord don’t give the money to your D. Figure out the mimimun your H feels she needs to feed herself and bus fare to school and work. Put that money each week on a car such as a Wachovia Visa Buxx or deposit it weekly in her checking account. Don’t let her have a credit card that is linked to you. This might be a compromise for you and your H. Not quite what you want but not quite what he wants.</p>
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<p>Have you always felt this way and was this your approach to parenting in the earlier years as well? Show me a kid who has never tested their parents and I’ll show you an alien life form! Every parent has been though it at some point and delaying the inevitable by trying to avoid, placate, and reason with her is obviously only going to make it worse. It’s the monster that keeps on growing and, while it’s unfortunate that you have to correct behavior in an adult child, it’s still better than letting it continue. What’s next…elder abuse?! </p>
<p>If any of my adult children acted like your D, I would very quickly put them out and I really don’t care what anyone else would think/say. I would not choose to sell my self-respect just to save a little face. But I can’t imagine them doing so since they were never allowed to get away with it in their younger years. My S does have his problems at times, but knows exactly where the line that must not be crossed lies!</p>
<p>^ No…YYou are under the impression that I am a pushover over indulgent parent…I am not. My daughter would never have gotten away with this when she was younger. She was not as easy a child as my other three were but she was by no means disrespectful. That NEVER would have been tolerated. This started when she got back from her year away at school…actually it started when she went away to school and escalated throughout that year. By the time we brought her home she was a mess. This has been relatively new which is why I have had such a hard time understanding it. This is not normal spoiled brat syndrome…this is out of control abusive behavior. Yes, I fear elder abuse as well. I told my sons that if she does not go through a huge change in the next few years she is to never be left alone wioth either myself or my husband when we are old.</p>
<p>If she just started acting like this now that she is an adult and particularly since she has started living at home during the college phase of her life…it seems all the more reason she should live on her own. I mean this is a transition period for people her age to move into adulthood and one issue may be that your D wants to break out to be her own person and is confined by living at home under her parents’ wing. I think it would be very hard to have gone away to school to then come back and live at home again under what is sorta “high school mode” conditions. I know I would not have wanted to do that at that age and I don’t think my kids would want to revert to that either as young adults. She may be rebelling as she wants to do what she wants to do and she could do that somewhat if she was living independently but she has to abide by parental rule as she is back in “high school mode” at home…parents overseeing her study time, her social plans, etc. So, again, if she lived on her own like college kids typically do, it would be a lot better I believe. Time to fly the nest and make it on her own.</p>
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<p>I can understand why you say you are heartbroken. Because that is just truly sad…</p>
<p>I really hope things turn around for you and your family.</p>
<p>" Show me a kid who has never tested their parents and I’ll show you an alien life form" - That did make with laugh! Although most parents never deal with the extreme behavior of M3’s D, we’ve all seen lesser variations.</p>
<p>M3 & DH - You’ve had a tough road. It’s especially hard to parent kids that have had fragile times, without helpful therapy outcomes. May you find solutions and peace to move forward.</p>
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<p>It isn’t a coincidence that she throws a temper tantrum right before the arrival of one of your clients. She knows it will embarrass you and she knows she won’t be responsible for calming herself down, her dad will jump in. This arrangement works in the moment but not over the long term.</p>
<p>You need to just let her throw a fit with no one coming to the rescue. It is the only way to put the responsibility for the behavior squarely on her shoulders. She’ll throw a tantrum a few more times and when she realizes that daddy is no longer coming to the rescue, she won’t do it anymore.</p>
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<p>You simply have to not worry about what other people think. You don’t owe them and explanation and it isn’t any of their business. If you really have clients who have only well-behaved children and they attribute that to their superior parenting skills then you have some very naive clients. Some kids grow up in very challenging circumstances and turn out great. Some kids grow up in the best of homes and don’t turn out well. Parenting is only one piece of the puzzle.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s helpful to tell M3 that she needs to just let the tantrum happen while a client is there. None of us know the nature of her home business. We need to trust what she says when she indicates that it would be extremely embarrassing and may hurt her career. Of course, it would be best to let the tantrum happen and not respond to it. But if M3 says that is not a viable solution in her circumstances, then she needs to find another solution.</p>
<p>Maybe one of the best things that could happen now would be if one of your neighbors call the police with a domestic disturbance complaint.</p>
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<p>This. And if, instead of being coddled, she’s actually told to leave and not come back until she’s invited and can behave like a grown-up, that will go a long way toward making sure it never happens again. I know that you’re a great mom and realize that she’s really just playing your H for a fool. I’m sure that makes your blood boil…it sure would mine!</p>
<p>Here’s a suggestion (and I’m only half kidding). Get a few people who your daughter doesn’t know and have them pose as clients. Just before one comes over, provoke D a little and wait for the tantrum. Then ignore it and deal with your new “client”.</p>
<p>Repeat as needed until she gets the message that you won’t allow yourself or your business to be held hostage by her out of control behavior.</p>
<p>Alright, I know it’s a bit extreme but you know what they say about desperate times…</p>
<p>EPTR…</p>
<p>Since the daughter is really engaging in emotional “theater” of her own? I laughed at this idea. Crazy as it sounds, it might actually “work.”</p>
<p>I did have to step over my two year old in the hallway a couple of different times before she came to the conclusion that I wasn’t really going to respond to her tantrums. 14 years later, she still sometimes gets that “look” in her eye…I usually just walk away.</p>
<p>Good luck M-3. Maybe you could hire some local actors. Actors are frequently out of work. ;)</p>
<p>If I lived nearby I would volunteer. I have a little stage experience and plenty of tantrum experience. lol.</p>