<p>Thanks for the DBT information. I will go look that up. BPD is very difficult to treat as part of the illness is denial and self-destruction.</p>
<p>M-3
I recommend, if your dau tries to engage you in an argument, that if you reply, you simply reply with “I am sorry you feel that way”. It says you hear her, you acknowledge her feelings but you are not going to argue with her.</p>
<p>DBT is a great therapeutic approach, but it is also important that there is consistency at home. That seems to be a challenge, since you and your husband are so far apart when it comes to parenting your daughter, and there have yet to be any real consequences for her outrageous behavior. You say, for example, that your dau “knows” you wont pay for school next fall. I would bet my bottom dollar she just hears that as another empty threat and will ignore it, with the full expectation that it will be paid-- and probably by daddy. There have not yet been any consequences for her behavior, and she clearly rules the roost. Why would she have any expectation that this will really change when it has not happened? You can tell her something til you are blue in the face, but until it is actually implemented, it is meaningless background noise to her. Don’t just say, DO. This includes getting you and your DH to couples therapy IMMEDIATELY. You two need to work out your fundamental parenting differences. Then again, maybe if you do you will see that there are other differences. Maybe if your daughter gets healthy you will have to lok at other issues. Just hypothesizing, becausee there surely HAS to be SOME reason this behavior is benefitting someone somewhere (and not just yor daughter).</p>
<p>For example, you mentioned above that your dau would have made a scene at school to keep her car keys. Two issues there. I understand this is hypothetical, but if she had the keys on her, I’d have insisted she give them to you BEFORE you took her back to school, not expected them after the ride was given. You have no power at that point. If the keys were somewhere on campus (if she lived oon campus for example) and she made a scene, SO WHAT?? She would be embarassing herself, not you. You let her tantrum all she wants til she realizes its is not getting her anywhere, and you calmly stand your ground and insist on her handing over the keys. Worst case scenarrio, if the vehicle was on campus and she still had a set of keys- you go buy one of those steering wheel locks and lock it. You CANNOT let her continue to control you/your family with her outrageous behavior. Until that changes, she has no reason to change her behavior. And she wont. She continues to win these battles because she is allowed to and she knows how to play you/your husband. She may, MAY change only, ONLY if YOU and YOUR HUSBAND change. Good luck.</p>
<p>^^^While all of that is very difficult to do, it really is what needs to happen. I think the D sees these things as empty threats. Several weeks ago, mom said D had to temporarily go live with friends because her behavior was not tolerable in the home but she never did. She’s been told she is not getting a new car but sounds like H may give in. She tends to battle and in the end, she wins. The limits or consequences are threatened but not implemented. So far, D hasn’t suffered any consequences over any of the issues. However, I think m-3 has a difficult situation if she tries to implement a consequence or make D move out and if her husband works against that. That is very difficult and may require meeting with a third party to help get a plan in place that both follow. The H can’t be happy with all this friction going on and may be motivated to do something, even if he doesn’t seem to want to do the things m-3 is ready to do. The situation is very difficult but I agree with the “DO” something, more than just saying it. Implement ONE consequence or change this week. You gotta start somewhere.</p>
<p>Just wanted to add: DBT is incredibly effective for PTSD and also for anxiety disorders. In fact, anxiety disorders respond, in many cases, better to DBT than to medication, IMO.</p>
<p>I also wanted to just stop by and wish you a peaceful day. :)</p>
<p>M3-
You started this thread a month ago. It a good time to reflect back on where you were then and where you are now. What has changed and what has not.</p>
<p>I agree with the comment about the public tantrums. This seems to be a frequent tool that D uses to manipulate. It obviously bothers you, Mommathree, as it should. It is very difficult to have your adult child act out in public. Believe me, she knows this bothers you and she uses it to her advantage. As hard as it is, you need to work on your reaction to these scenes. Don’t give in to the emotional extortion. If she throws a hissy fit, just stand by and watch it like the rest of the crowd. Believe me, i know this is hard but it is the only way to break that particular pattern. She is holding you hostage and the weapon of choice is her unpredictability and your embarrassment.</p>
<p>Imagine if all of that cunning and strategizing were put to good use! :)</p>
<p>I wish for m-3’s sake and more peace in her life that one way to avoid so many dramatic scenes and conflicts is if D lives away from home. It would not be so frequent and they would not be dealing with D about every day situations. I think it would really help to dissipate these interactions and the frequency of them too.</p>
<p>momma3, throughout this thread you have mentioned your daughter being in therapy. Yet nothing has improved as far as her behavior. Have you ever considered sending her to another therapist? It might be worth a try, especially since the ones she has been going to appears (to me) to have been ineffective.</p>
<p>M-3 I hope you have a good day today. Take time to reflect on how you have changed since starting this thread, and spend some time doing things you want to do. </p>
<p>hang it there, I can’t imagine how hard this situation must be, especially with your DH on a different page.</p>
<p>Regarding public tantrums…what is to prevent a parent from just walking away? She will look, and feel, like a fool to be ranting at someone who is obviously not listening. I see parents of younger kids do this all the time in stores, parks, etc. - not toddlers, of course - and it seems to be quite effective. I would certainly walk/drive away from any adult, related or not, who was cursing or raising their voice to me.</p>
<p>My daughter does not do this in public places because I would certainly walk away and not look back at her. My daughter does this in front of our door, outside on our driveway, when a client is about to come to my home office. She does know exactly when to do it to get the rise that she wants. She is also aware that these ranting could destroy my reputation and business. It is emotional blackmail and that is another very big reason that she needs to go. My home office is a seperate space from my home on my property and there have been so many close calls where my daughter could easily carry on and destroy a business relationship. I would look like a nut if my daughter carried on like this in front of other people. She knows she has me in a constant state of worry regarding her behavior. She has done it before and it has cost me if she really wanted to she could destroy the business we worked so hard to build in a matter of of few outbursts with different clients in ear shot.</p>
<p>My husband and I built our office a few years back and it meets all of our needs. I have even considered renting space. It is not only unnecessary but it would reduce our income a great deal. This is all so complicated. I wish I could just come clean to clients and give them all a heads up with my daughter but the population I work with would see this as a reflection on me as a person, and that would not serve our business well.</p>
<p>This is like a bad dream…having a secret and being forced to live in the closet so to speak.</p>
<p>m-3…please try to explain this to hubby and that it really would be best for your D and for you if she lived on her own like most college students do. I hope he bends on this. You have come a long way in realizing this needs to happen and it is time to do it. I hope you can convince him. Just the reason above alone is reason enough and you have lots of other valid reasons anyway.</p>
<p>What is DH’s response to the possibility that DD could destroy your business?</p>
<p>Also, tell hubby that the therapists also think D should be living independently. It is not just your personal opinion.</p>
<p>ADad…When my daughter is doing this right before I am meeting with someone my husband spends time calming her down and making nice so she shuts her mouth. With each occurance I am getting more and more frustrated and it is getting more difficult to work under these circumstances. There have been times that I have heard my daughter in the background just as someone has arrived…it is an awful way to function.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This…</p>
<p>I’m sorry you continue to have this stress in your life, at this point in time. I suppose, though, this is just “the way it is” today. Here is a question for you: “Do you intend to DO anything about this today?”</p>
<p>Your answer, “No.”</p>
<p>My response: “Then I really wouldn’t spend so much time on it.” </p>
<p>have a good one.</p>
<p>She is toxic, and there is no other solution than for her to move out. She is not just living at home, she is living AT YOUR PLACE OF WORK and holding you emotionally hostage. She goes or you go. Either she goes or you have the burden of the expense of moving your business. Set a date. If husband does not agree to assisting her in her independence, you MUST find a place to do business. I do not know what you do or what kind of space you need. In our area, there are executive offices to rent that are in an area where there is a secretary/receptionist, a copier, etc and the rent includes just the office you need and extra to cover the shared areas. It is reasonable if that type of office would suit your needs.</p>
<p>momma-three, hugs. I have been following this thread but not posting anything - I have no personal experience to speak from, and I did not feel qualified to give advice. I do not know you, your town, and your D, so please disregard this if it sounds too crazy. Have you considered calling 911 during your D’s outbursts? If she is threatening you or anyone else (even herself) in any way, your call will be absolutely justified. We had a relative who was behaving in a somewhat similar manner in their parents’ house, and a visit from the cops (no one was arrested, cited, etc.) served as a sobering kick in the pants. The person packed up and left.</p>
<p>I understand it woud be difficult to explain to a client, but don’t you think that other people also have problem relatives? I’d be willing to bet that most of them would respect your judgement even more with a short explanation of how your D is unhappy when she doesn’t get her own way but you and H are not playing that game. I can think of several times that my kids tried to embarrass/guilt me into giving them something they did not need or earn. I simply said no and, if any rude comments commenced, took away other stuff/privileges that I had given them. They learned very quickly not to bite the hand that feeds them.</p>
<p>Okay. That is very complicated. I see your point about the repercussions of your D having a tantrum in front of a client and I agree that she knows exactly what she is doing and that she has you with your back to a wall.</p>
<p>Since you really can’t deal with her behavior if you are with a client perhaps you need to take a preemptive strike on this. At a time when things are relatively calm and maybe on neutral territory, explain your feelings about her behavior. Explain that her tantrums are difficult even when they are in front of the family but that they are absolutely unacceptable in front of neighbors or clients. Then tell her the consequences that will occur if she pulls it again. Of course, this needs to be a consequence that you are willing to enforce and severe enough to deter the behavior. She may not believe that you will follow through so you might consider making a short list of other behaviors that you are done with. Explain the consequences for each and then start applying them as needed. She will catch on that you are serious. And of course it’s a risk that she will test you by throwing a fit in front of the next client that you have, but you may need to take that risk to win back your control of the situation.</p>
<p>Then it’s up to her. Behavior is usually a choice and self control is an option even in the most difficult children.</p>