<p>m-3, here is one small change…D misses therapy, she must pay you $100 out of her earnings. You should not have to pay for that irresponsibility. And if she is missing this many times (sounds like it has happened a lot lately), then sit down and ask her if she wants to continue with this therapist or get a new one, etc.</p>
<p>I figured you had already tried it. It sounded too simple. </p>
<p>I dont agree with the posters who say that your daughter does school well. I am guessing that each of the times she manages to pull her grades out it is due to some last minute intervention on your part. </p>
<p>Dear Momma-Threes D- </p>
<pre><code>Your life is very complicated, and you need to help heal your family. I, a complete stranger on the internet, propose the following: Take a semester off. Make these three things your priority: 1) Work, because you do it well 2) Commit to your therapy appointments because you are throwing your mother’s money away and she is worrying about you and it is making her crazy and because the quicker you can convince her that you can make decent decisions the quicker you will all move on, and also, I bet you are sick of being so angry 3) be nicer to your mother because no one deserves abuse, especially not from someone so important to them,
</code></pre>
<p>love,
Switters</p>
<p>I would cancel all further therapy appointments. At this phase it doesn’t look like they are helping her. I would tell her when she is calm that she is welcome to begin therapy again when she has the time to commit to the appointments.
Insanity is sometimes defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Someone pointed out to me that I could look at my issues with my family members as being two sides of the street. I needed to stay on my side and when I found myself straying I needed to correct my route. The only actions I have control over are my own. It also has been said when we have expectations we will usually end up with resentments. When I let go of some of my expectations I stopped being so upset. Not quite the same but I have one child who is ADD with severe executive function disorder. I would expect him to get certain things done. I would give him a long list of things I wanted and felt he needed to get done. He would agree and go off and do whatever he had planned to do and blow off what I had told and asked of him. I would get so angry. My H would laugh at me when I would give my S the laundry list of all the things I thought he needed to do in order to be a successful student. My H knew my S was just telling me what I wanted to hear. I was a crazy woman. Now I am better at not asking of him things he is not capable of giving to me. We are all much happier.
Until your D is out of your house your life is not going to get better. All the therapy in the world and all the conversations between you are not going to change that. Until your D is out of your house her life is not going to get better. It is not healthy for any of you.</p>
<p>
Say what? What am I being accused of doing?? I think you have me confused with someone else.</p>
<p>What happened to “I am not paying for any more of her missed appointments”? Did you not contact the therapist in writing several weeks ago to advise that you were no longer accepting responsibility for the missed appointments? </p>
<p>There seems to be a lot of tacit support for complacency and inactivity. It is getting painful to watch.</p>
<p>M3 - is she going to any of her therapy appointments these days? This is the 2nd or 3rd you have written about her missing in the last week or two. If she is skipping them all, then certainly I would cancel them. Just money down the drain for you and another opportunity for her to thumb her nose at you. If she’s going to some of them (and you think she’s getting anything out of them), then I would take the advice you’ve been given by several posters and contact the therapist to let them know that you will not be responsible for any missed appts. She’s 20 years old; they should be able to set her up to be billed for those. Maybe she will go if she knows she’s going to be paying with her own hard earned money for those appts. she skips. (And again, no fun not tweaking Mom).</p>
<p>As for the suggestion that something “happened”, I know you said she was drug tested when you brought her home but did she ever undergo a complete physical (then or since)? I only ask because I know someone who underwent a pretty big personality change around the same age (normal one minute, full-blown screaming and throwing things if she was upset) and she was eventually diagnosed with a hormonal imbalance caused by birth control pills. Just a thought - if your D were ever to agree it, a thorough physical might shed some kind of light.</p>
<p>I hope you have a good evening.</p>
<p>I had called the therapist and asked that a call be put through to our home when appointments were coming up…that is normal practice here. They said that they called and when I asked what number they called I was told they called her on her cell number. Now the appointments can not be made without notifying our home. I let the office know that if I am paying the bills than I would like a curtesy call that there is an appointment scheduled. They agreed. </p>
<p>Jym…I am sure it was you back thread that asked me about that…I am too sick of reading about myself to go back and check…I get drained just reading it. If it was’nt you I apologize but I know it was brought up on this thread somewhere…I thought it was you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Guess this office doesn’t comply with the HIPAA guidelines.</p>
<p>Picking up on mom60’s post…</p>
<p>m-3, you are a loving mom who loves all four of your children. The three oldest have been relatively easy to parent and have not really given you any difficulty at all. Along comes the fourth child who is very challenging. It’s not your fault she is so challenging, of course. You are the same mom who managed to get three kids to adulthood who have been no problem at all. But the thing is, because this child is so challenging, it requires a different set of parenting style than you are used to. What worked with the sons doesn’t work with this kid. She is at fault for many things. But there also needs to be change on the parent end in managing the challenges this kid presents. And you may need help from a professional in figuring out how to handle it all. You have to do some things differently on your end and it is not just that the D needs to change. It is some of both. And it is not due to being a bad parent because are you not a bad parent and managed just fine with three other kids. But this kid requires a completely different approach and skill set. And it may take professional guidance to turn this relationship around from the place it is in. D is not going to change one bit if the approach doesn’t change. And there is nothing wrong with getting professional intervention with this because the status quo is not working for you or for your D. </p>
<p>Some things brought up that are worth trying…</p>
<p>Both parents attend therapy together to arrive at plans and strategies they can agree on or compromise and get an objective party to suggest, and then bring D into it. </p>
<p>D either being made to attend therapy or consequences will result OR if you don’t want to try that, then she either stops therapy or is responsible for paying for all missed appointments.</p>
<p>D moves toward independently living by moving into a dorm or apartment near campus. </p>
<p>Limits and consequences are drawn up in writing and enforced for certain behaviors (cursing at you, etc.)</p>
<p>You back off in addressing academic issues or BF issues as they are not that important in the scheme of things (BF is not really your concern and is her life and your admonishment of BF is causing further issues, and as far as school, she is passing with decent grades for now and that’s enough as far as expectations for this kid).</p>
<p>Maybe for this week, you can put one of these actions (a change on your end) in place</p>
<p>Nope-- wasn’t me, m3. </p>
<p>By the way, since your daughter is over 18, she has to give the therapist written permission to talk to you. She directs what numbers messages can be left on, etc. Doesnt matter who pays the bills, she is an adult and without written permission the therapist really can’t tell you anything-- including whether or not she showed up for her appointments, late-cancelled or what have you. You have no choice in that matter. And even if she did sign a release, she can revoke it at any time. And you might never know</p>
<p>My last suggestion, and I am then going back to my state of frustration, is for you to sit down with your daughter and ask her why the heck she is acting like this.</p>
<p>m-3 …you don’t have to answer this, but why isn’t D paying the missed appointment fee? Shouldn’t she be the one who suffers the consequences and not you? How is the doctor’s office calling you to inform you of the appointment times going to solve the issue of D missing many appts. and not being the one who pays the missed fees?</p>
<p>By the way, while my kids do not have therapists and never have, I pay for their doctor appointments and I don’t think doctors’ offices would call me about them. They are over 18.</p>
<p>It is true that HIPAA prevents health care providers from revealing any info about treatment, appts kept or missed etc to anyone without the written permission of the patient if an adult.
And it does NOT matter who is paying for the care.
I still pay for medical stuff for my 24 yr old grad student son but he must sign for me to be able to navigate insurance claims on his behalf. Even though I pay for the coverage and the Dr visits.</p>
<p>BUT I have run across more than one office that seems not to have heard of HIPAA and will speak to me without a release in place. Providers put themselves at risk for serious fines if a patient chooses to pursue such violations.</p>
<p>Same question as others, I thought you were going to stop taking financial responsibility for therapy because of the missed appointments.What happened to that plan? Also agree, the issues about the BF,school are really daughter’s issues. It seems you have enough issues of your own (with husband,elderly father, business,etc.)without also taking on issues your daughter should be dealing with. Are you also this involved with any of your son’s issues(girlfriends,school,jobs?). Having her live outside your home would hopefully cut down on the arguments.You would not be seeing firsthand what she is up to as a 20 year old. Best of luck to your family. Hope this gets sorted out soon. Family therapy would probably be helpful (as others have suggested).</p>
<p>“but I think that it would be very, very helpful if you could have a few sessions of family therapy to get everyone working together a bit more.” In theory , yes. But it would require buy-in and cooperation from D. Let’s all hope and pray that D is able to do that. </p>
<p>"Guess this office doesn’t comply with the HIPAA guidelines. " - It probably depends on what paperwork D as signed. </p>
<p>M3 - The way I see it, the problem is not that your 4th child was difficult. You sound like a good mom who likely would have developed ways to handle that. The problem is that parenting became difficult/different after D returned home… and at that point you had to make choices prioritizing her happiness and safety. Best wishes as you move on from here.</p>
<p>In this area the doctors office calls the patients home to remind them of an upcoming appointment. When my daughter moved out she had them call her cell phone. She never changed the number back to her home phone. It has nothing to do with the HIPPA laws. The call comes to the patients home. I asked my daughter when she was cancelling the appointment to change the contact number to the home number.</p>
<p>sevmom…No I am not involved with my sons personal lives at all. If they ask for advice I offer it but they are pretty good at making their own decisions. My 21 year son is leaving for the UE in June…a decision he arrived at all on his own. They are all independant thinkers.</p>
<p>Soozie…Daughter is paying on installments her bills for missed therapy. She makes the payments when she goes to therapy…probably why she is missing more and more.</p>
<p>If your daughter wants to maintain any independence re: her own personal therapy as a 20 year old, she should maintain the contact with the office as her own cell phone number.You may want to follow through and make sure the office knows you are no longer willing to finance her therapy bills for sessions she does not keep. Why did the appointment get cancelled within 24 hours?. More to the point, why was the appt. even made if there were no consequences in place if she bailed? Suggest family therapy as your insurance should pay at least if she bails. At least you and husband,available sons should be able to go.<br>
Just saw about the installments. Hopefully the therapist will not keep making appts. with her that she does not keep. The therapist may never get her money if your daughter doesn’t make payments!</p>
<p>M-3
Write the therapist a certified letter that you are not responsible for the bills. The therapist can mail you all the bills in the world, but that doesn’t mean you are financially responsible, once you have notified them in writing that you are not paying the bill any longer.<br>
With all the stress of a family business in this economy, I would write the letter in a minute. What all does your D have to spend money on, she lives at home, there is food in the refrig, college is paid for…
I hope you have a peaceful evening. I hope your DH is ready to turn the page…</p>
<p>I agree with sevmom that your D should be allowed to independently make decisions about who she dates and how she goes about her schoolwork and social life at her age, even if her decisions are ones you don’t agree with. You can agree to pay or not pay for school based on performance. If she lived outside the home, you would not know her study habits but just her grades. Getting involved in her BF/GF relationships is a recipe for problems and adding more friction to your parent/daughter relationship. I think you need to let her make her own decisions and come to you for advice if she seeks it. She should no longer be treated as a HS kid. I’m sure she’ll make some dumb decisions or ones that make you cringe but in these areas, she has to learn to function more independently anyway, and it really is not a place for parents to interfere so much at this age. She may be rebelling as her parents have too much control over her life. </p>
<p>Ok, so you ARE making D pay for missed appointments. But you say she only has to pay in person? She is avoiding going as a way of avoiding the payments? I’d think a bill would come to the house if she doesn’t pay in person. </p>
<p>Also, if you think the therapy is very crucial for her to have, you might have to insist on attendance (and you are paying for it) or a certain consequence will be given (determine that in advance). For example, if she is going to live at home, she must attend therapy as a condition. Or if she wants you to provide transportation, she must attend therapy. </p>
<p>Have you asked H what changes he wants to implement as things are so untenable right now? Can you agree on any measures? Is he willing to go with you to talk to a professional for some insight and problem solving?</p>
<p>I do not agree with Mom2Mom that D should pay for all the doctor/therapy bills. I think she should have to pay for missing ones at the last minute and wasting parents’ money. But otherwise, I think the parents want D to get therapy and she is still a student and I think it is appropriate for them to pay for appointments that are not cancelled. If D had to pay $100/week for all appointments, she may not go.</p>
<p>Question: why do you want the therapist’s office to call your home instead of D’s cell to remind her of the appointment? All I can surmise is that it gets you involved in making sure she goes. That is very child-like supervision. It doesn’t help her to grow up and take responsibility. My D has doctor appointments and she gets her own reminders and keeps her own datebook and I am not involved except the bill. I just don’t see what you are accomplishing by having the reminders come to you so you can supervise that she doesn’t miss. Why not set up the expectation with D that she is not to miss appointments or X, Y, or Z will happen. But she should not rely on you for reminders and such at age 20. What if she had an appointment with a professor? Would you expect the professor to call your house with the reminders so you can remind D? Your daughter is not going to grow up and become independent unless you make her responsible like young adults should be. The level of parenting seems stuck in high school level. And D is stuck at age 16. </p>
<p>Also, if you think she is avoiding that office to avoid making her installment payments on the missed appt. fees, collect the fees from your D yourself and make the payments to your bill for the missed appointments. Normally you pay the bill. You are making D pay for the missed appts. and so directly charge your D for those fees and make her pay up to you on the day she misses. Then, pay your bill on time.</p>