@roycroftmom nope, no daily help; only a house cleaner every other week.
We are middle class but because of old Yankee tendencies tend to never pay for work we can do ourselves. I was excited when DH decided to pay someone else to replace our roof.
So for example, our boys are in charge of: garbage, recycling, putting away their own laundry, cleaning their own rooms, ALL yardwork which includes; mowing our acre, trim work, leaf clean up, snow shoveling our long driveway, steps, patio. Garden care, help turning over our large vegetable garden, weeding. Preparing the boat every summer. Whatever house project we are working on. Last year they were out power washing and staining the house with us. This summer power washing, painting and repairing trim for our rental property. I can also ask the boys to vacuum the house or dust an area if I need help. DS3 is 14 and he irons his own clothes because that is really important to him. They know some cooking and how to do the laundry but usually don’t. Except for DS1 who basically lives with his GF. I know he washes dishes, does laundry and cooks there.
A lot of women seem to put up with a lot of undeserved abuse in the name of “preserving the relationship” with a spouse or child. I urge OP to get help in getting her own needs met as well. A counselor should help her establish her boundaries of tolerance, perhaps on a short and then long term basis.
It is a bit OT, yes, but if the OP’s kid was expected to do chores in the past, when she lived at home, there is no reason to expect any less now.
(Any kid of mine who sasses back about not doing their chores usually gets their internet cut off immediately; it tends to work faster than anything else.)
Thank you for sharing that story. It is hard to back off and I am not sure that is the best way forward in our situation. My husband and I had spoke this morning and we seemed to be on the same page. Later, we sat down with our daughter who basically said she was going back to school whether we liked it or not. It is not 100% free so we do have a say in how our money is spent. She has no spending money and said she doesn’t want to touch her savings— I don’t know where she thinks money is going to come from.I asked to see her grades and she said it was none of my business. I calmly told her she could not go back to school without our assistance so she could answer a simple question. Well, for her she did very poorly with a 2.4. Said she has already put in a question with a professor who “gave” her a D when she has all her work and grades are online and it shouldn’t be a D. I asked to actually see the grades online and she refused. So her semester gpa could be even lower. Dad asked why she keeps saying she had a “meltdown” , the completely new— or maybe true— story is that now she says everything seemed like a “black hole” mid semester— her dorm, the dining hall, the sorority. She became angry. But she pulled herself out of that and really liked her teachers and tried to save her gpa at finals time. This is the third different story she has told. I said she could go back to school if she would show me her grades and sees her doctor and tells the truth (because there is obviously a problem with the entire black hole story and if the dr says nothing is wrong she’s not being honest). She has been lying about everything, even little things and I think that may have finally dawned on my husband as he caught her in several lies. Just as I thought she was about to agree, she changed the story once again and now things are terrible because I am an abusive mother. I can’t tell you how much that hurt. She is being very manipulative and told her father I needed to go to counseling. I immediately said I already planned to which is true. That wasn’t good enough for her. She had to keep putting me down— maybe to make herself feel better and husband just sort of sat there. So I began to get upset and daughter laughed. I can’t begin to tell you how bad that was. And when husband finally spoke up his idea was that she should commute and that way it would be 100% free and he just wants her to get a degree especially if its free. He never once defended me. I said with the depressive symptoms and anxiety she’s showing her grades would not improve by making her commute over an hour away during Lake Effect snow season. Well, daughter sensed her father on her “side” and said she would commute but would need to be at school until very late most nights to go to the library. I don’t believe that one minute. Did I mention it just happens to be my SUV she’d be taking? Because mom works from home so can be without a car all day… I was getting very upset but asked “so she will show us her grades, go to the doctor who will probably give her back the same meds and commute?”To which daughter, again sensing her father on her “side” said no to grades and doctor. I think all my husband sees is dollar signs and he doesn’t want to believe daughter is ill. When he went to bed we weren’t talking. Daughter went back to her room where she has been for days and thinks all is done. I am really upset. The new semester is in two and a half weeks. I feel we are setting her up for disaster. I don’t want her commuting in the snow. I offered a compromise that if she take a leave of absence she could take a few classes at a nearby CC if her school allowed it. It’s only a 5 minute drive. Again a refusal. She expects us to pay for gas, buy books and provide my suv and spending money. My husband acts like that’s no big deal. I am very disappointed in him tonight. I have put in a request for more information about leave and taking classes at the CC. Maybe husband will see it’s a good idea if in writing.
Oh— I left this on preview so this morning was actually yesterday, etc
I am so very sorry this is happening to you. You pay for the car; you should have it the whole day. Husband can give her his car or pay for her ubers or whatever, but you do need to stand up for yourself here and your own needs. The dynamic is truly toxic, and I’m surprised she can hang on to her scholarship with grades that low. You don’t deserve this abuse and are not benefiting anyone by putting up with it.
This situation is complex and hard to decipher for us online. Each poster will react according to his or her experience. I think that this goes beyond what CC can offer and hope that you get the proper help offline. Please understand that there are biases- my own included- when people respond here. I think you need more detached help from a trained person who can meet your family.
Your daughter has legal rights to privacy. But as a parent you can make certain choices if she insists on those rights, because you hold the purse strings. Noone can win with a stand off like that. You need help to find a way out of it.
Good luck. Many of us have been there and it really can work out, but it takes time- and faith. If counseling can restore your faith in one another, that will be a great step forward.
What a mess. I think I would send her back to school, tell her you are paying for 4 years as planned with the scholarship and that is it and let her make her own decisions, work through her major decision and keep her grades where they need to be to keep her scholarship, It sounds like right now she is toxic to your marriage and I would put my marriage first…but that is just me.
As many have said each family will reach different decisions. I think the OP could benefit from some counseling and work through things in her mind in a neutral situation. If you didn’t have in place grade sharing and grade expectations from the get go I am afraid that it might be too late to add hurdles. My inclination would be to remove myself from what is going on. There is no way I would give up my vehicle and keep her in the household on a day to day basis but that is truly between you and your husband. The potential loss if she fails out at her current college would be worth more to me than the marital stress.
@compmom has a great point. Your situation requires professional help. TODAY your top priority needs to be getting an appointment with a family counselor. And it is a good idea for you to attend the first session alone since you are being ganged up on by spouse and daughter.
What you can glean from this post is that you are not crazy. You are not being treated well by your spouse or your daughter. I encourage you to find your voice (with professional help) and decide what your boundaries are.
You need professional help coming to terms with the complete lack of support from your spouse. And YOU get to decide if you give up your SUV everyday for an entire semester!!! Decide where you draw the line, then draw it. Wishy washy words are not helping the situation.
Yes, it is normal to feel anger, sadness and frustration with ones you love so dearly. Your choice is to stop the madness. Get outside help today.
Hugs to you.
I am so sorry that YOU are being abused. It is your car. YOU can say no to being without a car. Why does she get to dictate everything? How much is it to have her live there? If it is 5k or less, I would just send her back. Commuting won’t work. You need counseling. She sounds manipulative and abusive. How is having her commute helping anything? Are you going to have daily fights over her behavior? Fight because she returns how late every day? Fight to get her out of bed every day? What are you gaining? It will still cost money in terms of gas etc. And if she gets in a car accident… I would send her back. If she fails out, she fails out. Let her know that you are not putting up with her lies and abuse anymore.
Agree that the need for family counseling is critical. Go with your husband at a minimum. Or go alone if they won’t participate. That sounds like a bad situation. I’d hold your ground on seeing the grades, and hang onto your car keys in the meantime. But fundamentally you and your H need help getting on the same page, and you need a third party to do that. Seems pretty clear after the latest go around.
My kids were required to give me grade access at all times if I was going to pay the bill. (Not just at semester end). I wanted it primarily if one of them hit a health bump (mental or otherwise) so I’d have an idea of where they stood. I don’t think this is an unreasonable request by the person paying the bill. I didn’t need it, but they never had a significant issue.
What does it matter if you see her grades? It’s not like the parents have ANY control over this daughter. She is abusive and manipulates her dad. So you see her grades. They are awful and then what. Nothing changes. Really nothing changes. If her scholarship is not revoked, send her back.
I never asked my kids their grades but they always knew that I could- at any point in time- and that as a condition of continuing to live off my generosity, hard work and thrift, they owed me that.
And the keys to my car? Always happy to lend to them to do a family errand (grocery shopping), take Grandma to an oral surgery appointment (kid got to sit in the waiting room for three hours reading old Time magazines) or a doctor’s appointment for themselves. Otherwise, they could take the bus or ask me very nicely if we could work out an arrangement-- perhaps in exchange for the car one evening, they could do an extra load of laundry?
Don’t get gaslit into a situation where you think YOU are the unreasonable one.
Big hug to you. You can do this- parenting is not for the faint at heart. But agree that getting a counselor to listen to you and your husband and get you on the right path is the right next step. And although ordinarily I’m one to advocate letting your kids make mistakes and learn from them- you may be right to turn off the money tap for now. No sense in throwing good money down the drain right now if your D isn’t of mind to take advantage of college.
I would separate from both daughter (who is a legal adult) and husband. Get a new account, take the SUV and go. Get out of there. Let daughter and husband handle things. The dynamics in that house are not healthy.
@intparent I can’t see how anything at all changes when they see her grades.
@momofthreeboys I completely agree. Send her back. You cannot force her to participate in therapy. She is lying. You will never know the truth. If her scholarship is not revoked then send her back. Having her stay and having the mom suffer with her abuse and be without a car? It’s not like they can help her. She has to do it herself.
I have been reading the whole saga here. I can really sympathize with the OP but on a lessor scale, as college was not on the line, as well as the many other things. During HS my D would sometimes be abusive to me, tell me I was the crazy one, etc. H would not always back me up. It was very frustrating and demoralizing. Glad to say that it eventually got better with everyone. There were a few times I left the house and stayed with friends. As far as the SUV goes, it would depend on in whose name its in, and whether H could pull the “I paid for it”, or if the OP paid for it, or has the title. I think it would be more peaceful though if the daughter did live at or around school . Living at home is a disaster in the making.
Gearmom, Transparency is a good disinfectant.
Right now, the D gets to pretend that she’s doing fine in college, and that her parents are total nudniks for even wondering how she’s doing. Right now the H gets to pretend that things aren’t as bad as the hysterical mom is making them out to be. And right now the Mom has to wonder if in fact she’s crazy for thinking that something isn’t right here (academically, medically, psychologically).
Having the grades front in center is the first datapoint- “you are going to flunk out” or “you are going to lose your scholarship” or “You dropped three classes and are only taking a partial load- what does your advisor say about that?”. Having the grades in front of everyone is the first step to washing away the denial here that having a kid hole up in her room for days on end and refuse to have a polite conversation with her parents is normal behavior. Having the grades in front of everyone is the thought-starter to a conversation about “where are we going here- do you actually WANT to be in college right now?”
Without the grades everyone gets to pretend that mom is crazy for even worrying.
They don’t even know if she is telling the truth about last semester’s grades. She might have failed classes, and be put on probation, and they would never know. If she stops turning in assignments or doesn’t take exams next semester, they could see that. If she maybe should consider dropping a class, they would be able to see that.
Paying the bill gives them the right to have their own standards for academic progress and tracking so they can decide whether to fund the next semester. Her scholarship does not cover the whole cost.
@blossom So she shows her grades and guess what? It is all MOM"S fault that her grades are low. She suggested a class. She did this. She did that. Do you think the husband is going to do anything? He couldn’t even say ANYTHING while the mom was being laughed at while mom cried. These are abusive people. Mom does not need to prove to anyone that she is not crazy. If D has not lost her scholarship, then get her back to school.
@intparent The problem is that they have absolutely NO CONTROL over D. So she is put on probation. So she failed. Do you think DH sides with mom? Clearly not. The “solution” was to have mom’s life a living hell. To have mom lose her car all day and night. To have mom have to fight every morning to get DD off to school. To have mom have to try to correct her behavior every day. To have mom have to argue because mom needs her car before eleven at night because DD lies that she is at “the library.”