Debt-Free Education or Dream School Debt?

[beefeater]

@hochreichkopf

There’s a specific question in the section ‘Untaxed income, benefits, and retirement plan contributions by your parents.’ If we maximize our 401K up to the IRS limit, then the tuition is high. If we put $0 in that field, then the tuition is much lower, at $38,368.
Princeton becomes very affordable too if we didn’t to 401K contributions.

When you try that adjustment, are you raising your AGI accordingly? I think your reported income would rise if you contribute less to your 401k.

[MMRose]

That’s what I think too. That question is just meant to restore to your income/AGI what was diverted and which would have been available for tuition if it hadn’t been a 401k contribution. So it’s not an extra assessment—just balancing things out.

[kelsmom]

401k contributions used to be required information for FAFSA, and it was added back into the formula to determine EFC (now called SAI). It is no longer collected on FAFSA (the idea being that families that qualify for federal grant aid rarely are able to significantly contribute towards their 401k. Profile probably still requires that information and adds back the contributions as available income.

I’m not understanding this:

If we maximize our 401K up to the IRS limit, then the tuition is high. If we put $0 in that field, then the tuition is much lower, at $38,368. Princeton becomes very affordable too if we didn’t to 401K contributions

It doesn’t make sense that the aid would change in this scenario (I’m assuming Princeton requires the 401k contributions to be reported) … if you don’t contribute to your 401k, your income will increase by the amount you didn’t contribute. You aren’t comparing apples to apples. The mistake was in reporting $0 in 401k contributions but not increasing your income by the amount you used as a 401k contribution in your comparison.

[MYOS1634]

The “balancing out” at least makes sense to me.

I see the parent’s dilemma:
Otoh, this student is likely to have lots of good, affordable choices and it doesn’t seem right to have to commit to Lehigh sight unseen.
Otoh, the college is very good academically and has improved in the past 10-15years wrt fratty/laxbro vibe. Otooh, it’s still not quite an intellectual haven nor a tech hub.

Hugs to you

[CFP]

@MYOS1634

Otoh, this student is likely to have lots of good, affordable choices and it doesn’t seem right to have to commit to Lehigh sight unseen.
Otoh, the college is very good academically and has improved in the past 10-15years wrt fratty/laxbro vibe. Otooh, it’s still not quite an intellectual haven nor a tech hub.

I think that’s 3 hands.

[AustenNut]

@hochreichkopf

@AustenNut

There are other options that can be mentioned,

I’d love to know them all. While the student is primarily handling her admissions process independently, with support from school counselor, my main concern is ensuring student’s happiness over the next four years. Although they are generally positive and capable of reframing any experience into positive meanings, I still want to help set her up for the best possible outcome.

This is far from a comprehensive list, and some of these were mentioned upthread, but these are some schools that might be worth investigating.

Case Western (OH): About 6200 undergrads at this Cleveland school and it offers full tuition scholarships (source). Your D will want to show a lot of interest here, but if they think she’s seriously interested, then they may definitely try and win her.

Emory (GA): About 7400 undergrads at this Atlanta school and it offers a full ride to its Woodruff Scholars (source).

George Washington (D.C.): About 11k undergrads at this school that offers full tuition scholarships (source).

Missouri S&T: About 5500 undergrads at this school that also offers full tuition scholarships (source). Unlike some of the other colleges on the list, you can get an excellent idea of how much merit your D will receive (outside of the competitive awards), and it is likely to be much less than the UCs. Here’s the scholarship calculator: Scholarship Calculator – Student Financial Services | Missouri S&T

Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ): About 4100 undergrads at this school that offers up to full tuition scholarships (source).

Washington U. (MO): About 8300 undergrads at this St. Louis school and it offers full tuition scholarships (source).

[hoopsdad2000]

@Momofthree24 This, I think, is the most critical question being asked at this point of the thread (and this thread is one of the most robust/helpful on here in awhile.)

btw @blossom has a good handle on the Lehigh type of student. Very, very prep/boarding school-friendly.

@tsbna44 Nailed the terrain. We drove through the campus. Seemed extremely hilly to us as well. Lots of jokes in the car that day about walking home on an icy, February early morning, post-house party. DC had a wonderful interaction with admissions but ultimately passed on applying.

I will say this: any kid talented enough to (possibly) receive a full ride at Lehigh, SHOULD have similar opportunities at T100 schools, maybe even GENEROUS T50 schools.

Not much else to add other than to make sure you certify next steps in the event of ED acceptance yet losing out on the scholarship.

Seriously, though @hochreichkopf try to figure out a way to get you and your child to Bethlehem in the next 2-3 weeks.

[tsbna44]

@hochreichkopf

Yes, those not awarded the scholarship are released from the binding commitment. They are still encouraged to apply through the regular admission process if they wish to pursue enrollment.

From post 58. I think OP said they’d know before the ED deadline.

[hochreichkopf]

@beefeater

When you try that adjustment, are you raising your AGI accordingly?

No, I didn’t. This slipped my mind; I didn’t think about that. It makes a lot of sense now

[hochreichkopf]

@tsbna44

From post 58. I think OP said they’d know before the ED deadline.

Apologies for the confusion. We will know the scholarship decision between December 1st and 3rd, which is after the November 1st Early Decision (ED) deadline, but before general ED/EA decisions are announced. For instance, Georgia Tech won’t release Early Action decisions for out-of-state students until late January. As far as I know, the UCs don’t have an Early Action option, so their decisions won’t be known until next year.

[IndySceptic]

@hochreichkopf

Apologies for the confusion. We will know the scholarship decision between December 1st and 3rd, which is after the November 1st Early Decision (ED) deadline, but before general ED/EA decisions are announced. For instance, Georgia Tech won’t release Early Action decisions for out-of-state students until late January. As far as I know, the UCs don’t have an Early Action option, so their decisions won’t be known until next year.

I’m sorry; but you’re saying you won’t know the scholarship outcome before applying ED?

They’re expecting you to apply ED, forsaking all others, without committing to the acceptance or the scholarship?

I’m no longer sure what this thread is about.

[hochreichkopf]

@IndySceptic

I’m sorry; but you’re saying you won’t know the scholarship outcome before applying ED?

So, for this program, the application process is different.
There isn’t a direct college application initially; instead, we apply through their scholarship program.
Before the final round, we must confirm our desire to pursue the scholarship, understanding that if awarded, we are required to commit to Lehigh.
We cannot advance to the final round without making this commitment, as doing so would potentially take an opportunity away from another student.

[Momofthree24]

Agreed. To make matters worse, UC applications are December 1, right before this scholarship is awarded. So the student would have to get all those applications done in case the scholarship doesn’t work out.

[Muu9]

So your application is not binding if you don’t get the scholarship? Or do you need to apply ED for the final round which commits you to Lehigh whether selected or not?

Personally if I had a student who was competitive for MIT, I would encourage them to look for merit scholarships at places like Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, CWRU, WashU for merit aid.

[tsbna44]

The issues here are:

1. If there’s a true favorite and it doesn’t sound like it, then OP gives it up.

2. Just because Lehigh sees something doesn’t mean Vandy, Rice, etc. will too - and those schools have higher profiles. Schools like Lehigh use money, like any school, to get that next level kid - no different than the state schools with large auto merit.

It’s easy to say - give this up and go elsewhere, but you’re a family with some health and financial issues - are you willing to roll that dice?

Maybe - but I’d have to think long and hard about it. I’m conservative - but why take that chance.

A student like this - even if they don’t get the scholarship, they’ll probably land something great at Lenigh - and if not, they still have other things.

But just to walk away - and if OP wants to, of course it’s worth it, but to assume because one school loves you - others are goign to throw money at you or you’d get a Stamps, etc. - it’s simplya big risk.

Does OP want that risk?

But I don’t think it’s something you casually just assume - like if Lehigh said yes, then other schools definitely will too.

That’s just not realistic…IMHO

[Muu9]

To be clear, I wasn’t suggesting to not apply for the Lehigh scholarship. I just wanted to mention that these other merit could be pursued in parallel.

[hochreichkopf]

@Muu9

I just wanted to mention that these other merit could be pursued in parallel.

I just spoke with the student, and learned that if this scholarship is granted, other merit opportunities cannot be pursued. For example, if we receive positive scholarship outcome on December 1st, we will have to commit immediately and withdraw all other applications. End of discussion.

If she doesn’t receive the Lehigh scholarship, she can keep her other applications. She informed me that she is applying to 25 universities and is approximately 70% finished with the essays and applications for all of them.

[tsbna44]

Wow - so she’s already got a plan - you have a good one. She’s on top of it.

[hochreichkopf]

@tsbna44

It’s easy to say - give this up and go elsewhere, but you’re a family with some health and financial issues - are you willing to roll that dice?

@tsbna44

Does OP want that risk?

Thats true, we’re unwilling to take that risk. Given her intent to pursue a PhD, it makes sense to conserve funds for her graduate studies rather than spending more now.

[tsbna44]

btw - there’s always a way to get to the price point of Lehigh - but the problem is, they wouldn’t be schools of interest - an Alabama, UAH, Mississippi State, Ole Miss and more.

Flagships and smart kids galore because they’re getting bought in - Bama has amongst the most NM scholars in the country, but clearly not what you are seeking.

I guess the point is, if the Lehigh thing goes away and you decide that even $40K is too much, thanks to the stats, Lehigh wouldn’t be the only $20K-ish opportunity out there.

Not the right kind of school (but a flagship like a UCLA) - but at least that price point would exist thanks to stats (assuming the student has an SAT/ACT).

It’s easy to talk about $20K, 40K, etc. but not so easy when you have to stroke that check 2x a year.