Just got back from Denison’s impressive, evening-plus-a-day admitted students event, where S had a GREAT time and made friends. It seems pretty clear that Hamilton and Vassar won’t try half as hard to woo students, esp since they don’t do an evening event where the kids can hang out at the same hotel until late at night. (Their admitted students days are next week.) But of course they are T20 and Denison is not. I’ve warned him it will be hard to make a fair comparison. Hamilton was his fave school before (and he has a chance at participating in his sport there). Vassar has the best location and he could do his sport there, for sure. At Denison, he doesn’t qualify for his sport’s team. So that is a whole 'nother layer to the decision. But aside from that … Any tips? Insight?
Really, the most import factor is what your son thinks, and where he feels is the overall best fit (aside from just an accepted student evening). Vassar might have a “good location” for example, but does that trump his sport and overall opinion of the school? How important is it to your son to continue his sport? Was he actually recruited by a Hamilton coach and does he have an offer of a roster spot?
Take rank out. Take a marketing event out but that’s hard.
Walking around, on his own, campus and surrounds, talking to people, what die he think ?
I agree with you that where he feels he fits is most important, but how do Hamilton and Vassar expect a kid to be able to tell that in the course of a 6-hour event, when schools like Denison gave him a whole 6-hr evening plus the next day to talk with people (this in addition to a previous open house where he had a student interview) and another school had him for an overnight. Taking the sport out of the decision process.
“Taking the marketing event out” is what feels impossible when one school gives you twice the time with fellow admits, twice the class visits, twice the interaction with other professors, and shows you a lot more of what they offer than the other does.
Yes it’s hard. They’d have to make an effort to duplicate it on their own at the other school if they want to learn more.
Denison needs to sell due to ranking. Kudos to them for busting tail.
But you don’t want to make a wrong decision due to a great sales job. But it’s not easy…
Perhaps the coach of his sports team can arrange an overnight with a potential teammate (sleeping bag required). That’s how I decided on Vassar vs Hamilton (in the 1980s) and also how my son made his final decision at Brown several years ago.
It would provide not just general info but a specific sense of what being a student athlete at these schools felt like and team specific vibe. Best of all if you do decide to attend you will have already met some people and have a real (vs choreographed) sense of the campus.
Reach out to admissions and see what they can do for you. Zoom call with student or professors, meet with students or professors at preview event, take classes, overnight with student, eat lunch with students, etc.
If the question is be a Varsity athlete at some schools and not another, then spending time with prospective teammates and other recruits would be a good way to get a feel for the campus experience. For a D3 athlete, their sport is still the biggest time commitment outside of class, so being comfortable with the team culture, coach, and teammates is important. Can your son connect with the coaching staff to see if other recruits are attending, whether there is a way to meet up with the coach, watch a training session, or have a meal with prospective teammates?
As a parent of a Denison alum, I’m delighted your student had a great experience at the admitted student day! My son had attended an admitted students day, even though as an ED admit he knew he was attending, and was tremendously reassured, and excited, by how much he enjoyed the visit.
The sport shouldn’t be the sole or most significant factor- it’s about fit, first and foremost. However, does he want to play his sport or not? If so, and he’s talked with the coaches at Hamilton and Vassar, then a visit with potential teammates, etc. is the way to go. I can’t get a sense from your post about what he thinks, and if he wants to play his sport or not. You mentioned it, so I’m assuming it must be a factor in some capacity, but then you said you’re taking his sport out of the equation. If Hamilton has been his early favorite, and he can play his sport there, I’d be making sure he has ample time to visit with potential teammates, talk with professors, etc. There are definitely a lot of ways to get a feel for the school community above and beyond accepted students day. I definitely think he should reach out to the coach and admissions.
I agree the official organized admitted student event is just a baseline, and you can ask to stay longer and do more.
That being said, when you are starting to realize maybe this college is not going to be your choice, “only” a day can start feeling pretty long! Conversely if you are loving it and you leave wanting more, that is probably a win in their view (for all the classic reasons).
So I do think there is a bit of logic behind why a lot of colleges keep it fairly tight.
Another Vassar alum here, so am admittedly biased. Many schools offer the opportunity to do an overnight with a student. Back in the day, one of my s’s used to host prospies at his school, and admissions oved him b/c every prospie he hosted ended up enrolling in the school!
That evening event at Denison sounds great, and its clever to offer more to “entice” students, but as others have said, maybe they do it, and do it earlier than the other schools, to be competitive/get an edge up (and in his case, it worked). Why not see what he thinks after he attends the other admitted students events, and as others suggested, reach out to the coaches and have him get a feel for them and meet with players while there (if an overnight cannot be arranged). What about comparing other aspects of the schools? Core vs no core requirement, flexible course scheduling, etc.
I would also not judge a school by its admitted student day. My son is actually at Vassar - and their admitted student day, admittedly, is not that exciting/compelling. Pretty basic welcome, lectures, lunch at the dining hall, time to see campus, etc. I’d focus on the school itself, whether your student can see themselves there, the reputation, alumni network, residential setup, dining hall, faculty, curriculum (open or core), streets next to campus where kids may eat/hang out, etc. etc. My son is having an incredible first year at Vassar (and I’m a bit biased as an alum), and a school is so much more than that brief snapshot run by the admissions office staff. Some schools also don’t go as overboard for those days b/c they simply don’t need to try as hard to get prospective students to enroll, for many different reasons. Anyway, all amazing choices! Hope the decision becomes easier after all of your visits! Congrats!
When surveyed by the Princeton Review, Hamilton students expressed an affinity for their school:
Denison is an excellent school. As are the other two. I wouldn’t get hung up on T20 or T40 ratings because any one of them is better than the other 2 is some area, and if that’s your thing, that’s what matters. They are 3 different places vibe-wise, and I suspect that how much each feels right will vary accordingly.
To the extent that sport is an issue, explore this carefully with the coach and team. We have a friend who was recruited at one of the schools under consideration who had a roster spot for 4 years and less than 1 hour of play in the same 4 years. That’s not to say your son would have that experience but it’s an example of getting what you want and it not being what you might have thought.
See how the other accepted student visits go. The good part is that they are all great options. And if Denison is the winner, he’ll get a great education.
My GS is having a great time playing his sport at the club level. At his college, club sports are quite robust (they aren’t everywhere) with an extended schedule and travel dates as well as home games. As a freshman, sports involvement has helped him make friends and in fact his new bff and next year’s roommate is a teammate.
Take a look at club sports at Denison to see if they offer a viable alternative in his sport.
Often overlooked but something which can make a difference in the kind of college experience a student has is the degree to which the male:female ratio is skewed in either direction. Here are the ratios for your three choices:
47:53 - Denison
45:55 - Hamilton
38:62 - Vassar
Yes, club sports can cover a lot of different scenarios. But my S24 is having a great club sports experience as a first year, and I am convinced the adequately-funded clubs where you get to travel and represent your college can be fantastic. In fact, I think in some ways they really hit the ideal balance of intensity which allows them to be fun and meaningful, but not too much of a distraction from classes and other important aspects of the college experience.
@NiceUnparticularMan, I feel exactly the same way. These clubs are truly “amateur” competition with true “student” athletes competing just for the sheer love of it. When I see how intercollegiate sports have been corrupted by big money, I want to have nothing to do with them. But these club competitions are a lot of fun!
I could be wrong, but my guess is that the OP’s son’s sport may be swimming/diving where Denison is often competing for a national championship and where there isn’t a club sport option so continuing with the sport would be an on/off switch in those school choices. My guess is that soccer/bball/football recruiting would probably be similar at these three schools, though Denison lax has also had some deep runs in the national tournament, so maybe that could be a recruiting outlier as well and again, not really a club sport option.
I agree that this is not about the rankings – what US News measures and how it changes year to year is not the basis for making a decision. Whether a school is affordable, offers the academic opportunities a students prioritizes, and – for LACs – is a good fit, are what matters. As a Denison alum parent, the academic opportunities there are deep and rich, and it has a superb career development. I love Pres. Weinberg’s comments that college should not be the “best” years of a person’s life but rather (and I’m paraphrasing) offer the tools and experiences so that a graduate can live their best entire life.