<p>Labels are curious things…we can call ourselves whatever we want, pejorative terms included, but sometimes get get offended when others choose to do the same. Sometimes a word is just a word. Wasting time reading into things is just that…a waste of time. I’m a lady at times, a B once in awhile as well. Overall, I’d prefer to be thought of as a nice person, whatever that means. If someone chooses to call me something else, so be it. </p>
<p>In my world, “lady” is generally used to say back when someone calls you the opposite. </p>
<p>Friend 1: Don’t act like I didn’t see you throwing it back last night!
Friend 2: Me? What? I am a lady!</p>
<p>I do not see myself calling someone “lady” to attract their attention. It comes off as rude. If I was referencing or getting the attention of a group of women, I might say “Ladies,…” </p>
<p>I don’t call people skanks or sluts. It’s not in my dictionary. What do those words even mean? I’m more inclined to call someone a phrase that describes them to a T rather than a blanket term that has lost its meaning. </p>
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<p>As a 50-something North Carolinian, this has been my definition of a lady, too - someone with manners but also someone with grit, determination, and humor. I guess I see “lady” as a compliment, not as a pejorative. </p>
<p>Of course, part of that comes from being a Southerner, and part of it comes from being surrounded by such ladies during my formative years. My grandmother made the most amazing chicken and dumplings, nursed her neighbors and family through serious illness, sewed her own clothes, stood up to her abusive father, and taught Sunday School every week. (Oh, and she could butcher a hog, too…) What a lady!</p>
<p>Lady, in a traditional meaning, is still common in AAVE.</p>
<p>What is a traditional meaning?</p>
<p>I start thinking of Downton Abbey. : )</p>
<p>I’ve never pondered about the basis and use of “lady”. Culturally, there’s going to be a difference. </p>
<p>My mom told me “Don’t do that. It’s not lady-like!” growing up. I don’t think I aspired to be a “lady”. The word was never really thought of or used in that manner. Rather, my mom focused more on traits and characteristics that I should hold versus the image of a “lady”. </p>
<p>I agree with shellz. Sometimes a word is just a word. “Lady” is just a word to me. It’s not something I aspire to become. It’s not something I work to uphold. It’s just a word. I hold myself to my own standards. I’m more inclined to be called a “strong woman” than a “lady”. A strong woman holds more worth and substance than a lady. </p>
<p>Lady is an archaic British title denoting wealth and privilege.
Personally, I would rather be consider a “woman of a certain age.”</p>
<p>^Yikes, I do NOT want to be that. Lady works fine for me.</p>
<p>“Little old lady” is working for me. I feel like I am in disguise. When I shared that thought with my husband, he suggested it wasn’t a very good disguise. A few years back I finally figured out the 80+ year olds were usually the most interesting women in the room. Especially after a few drinks. Move over, Dorthy Parker. I want to sit with you guys… ahem… ladies.</p>
<p>I am from the west and other than referring to an older woman of a different generation I generally hear “ladies” used in a negative way. Men will talk about “the ladies” using it as kind of a diminutive or to imply that they are frivolous and can’t be take seriously. In this case they consciously choose it over women which would be the standard word to use. The other most common usage is by a coach with a group of male athletes to imply that they are slacking.</p>
<p>I think of a lady as someone who is classy and has good manners. </p>
<p>I think everyone understands that it is generally intended as a compliment, at least when it isn’t used by football coaches and drill sergeants to refer to men under their command. But it tends to be a compliment for qualities that include some for which some women prefer not to be complimented. There is a sense that the “lady” fulfills her assigned role (in other words., knows her place), which includes elements of subservience, sexual mystique, and separation from the rough and tumble of work and the marketplace (except, maybe, for “ladies of the night”).</p>
<p>Some of us will remember the cover of Marilyn French’s popular novel of the late 70s, “The Women’s Room,” which had “Ladies” crossed-off and overwritten by “Women’s”. Nancy Reagan and Anita Bryant were ladies; Betty Friedan, Simone de Beauvoir, Angela Davis, and Katherine MacKinnon weren’t. Try as she might, Hillary Clinton has never been. They just aren’t ladylike enough, thank heavens.</p>
<p>I remember deciding that I was going to raise my consciousness and read “The Women’s Room,” way back when. What a horrible book!</p>
<p>JHS, I just think that analysis projects too much meaning onto this word–it just isn’t there for a lot of people, at least in many areas of the country, just as a matter of language.</p>
<p>Pelosi?</p>
<p>*There is a sense that the “lady” fulfills her assigned role (in other words., knows her place), which includes elements of subservience, sexual mystique, and separation from the rough and tumble of work and the marketplace *</p>
<p>That is definitely what it means in Thackeray, Trollope, Wharton. I am not sure that is what it meant in the 70s south. I am thinking about the ladies among my sorority sisters. In a way they fit your definition, but it was a deliberate choice on their part. </p>
<p>I tend to believe in the Planned Parenthood volunteering, neighborhood radical agitator lady.</p>
<p>ETA: Women’s Room may not be great literature but it is an important book. imho</p>
<p>It sort of gives me chills thinking how dated it is at this point.</p>
<p>I dont understand how " girls & women" got to be derogatory.
Women give birth, sometimes after days of labor, men will pass out just from one well aimed kick.
So who is tougher?</p>
<p>I guess I’d look through Second Sex for that answer.</p>
<p>I had to stop and think about Simone de Beauvoir, and a few of the phrases in JHS’s list. Then I had to think again and wonder if my reaction is just the ill-considered response of a woman raised in a patriarchy.</p>
<p>The Women’s Room What a blast from the past! I remember reading that with my grad-school-era “consciousness raising group” (which, come to think of it, wasn’t that much different than my current book club, except maybe a little angrier and we had alternatives to wine). I’m going to try to find a copy and read it again. It should be interesting to see how context affects the meaning of content now that 35 years have passed. </p>
<p>I think of it as a book for my mother’s generation. Middle class women who didn’t believe they had choices. For a lot of them the first choice would/should have been not to have kids in the first place. </p>
<p>It is not that ma’am is incorrect in the North. It is that the usage in the North is generally restricted to * women whom you don’t know and whom you are deliberately keeping at arm’s length since you have no need to know them *. “Excuse me, ma’am, you dropped your glove.” “Pardon me, ma’am, but I was here first.” </p>
<p>In the South, however, it seems more common that it is used more broadly even if you know someone’s name. So your mother asks you to do something, and you say, “Yes, ma’am.” That comes across as snarky in the North, generally speaking – because you’re calling your mother by a term you would use for a stranger. </p>
<p>So please, stop saying that it’s rude to say ma’am in the North! No - it’s just rude to say ma’am in the North to someone whose name you know and who you have a relationship with. </p>
<p>I have to agree that “ladies” is a term that gets used much like “girls” - I might say to a group of my female friends, “Hey ladies - anyone want to get together for dinner?” “Hey women” doesn’t quite work, and “Hey girls” is too juvenile. </p>
<p>I just think of lady as being well brought up and refined, but not necessarily passive.</p>
<p>I’ve always thought being a “lady” was a compliment. I guess the picture I have in my mind is someone who has class, confidence, knows how to carry herself in any situation, is well mannered, humble, kind, gracious, poised, charming, honest, true to herself, down to earth,well-educated, doesn’t gossip, and treats others, as well as herself, with respect. She’s not afraid to speak her mind and knows how to stand up for herself, others, and what she believes albeit with grace and dignity. She does not cuss or lose self control, and in essence, is pretty much the opposite of a <em>b</em>***. A woman is born, a lady is made. </p>