Defenses against jealousy

ariesathena · September 16, 2006, 5:56am

A lot of thoughts from a kid who inspired more than her share of jealousy:

-the athletic stuff works against girls. For guys, being an athlete can bring social accceptance where none existed before; for girls, it’s the nail in the coffin. This does diminish as she gets older.

Personal experience: I was a track runner in high school. I had an odd stride (run mostly on the middle of my feet/toes), but was varsity from Day 1 because I was strong enough to sprint and had the endurance to keep up the pace through several miles. That did NOT make me popular among my teammates (who didn’t like the new girl who displaced them), nor my peers. The crap diminished end of soph year when I became very integral to the team’s success. By senior year, no one hassled me - my classmates were more proud of me. Some of it’s maturity.

-Yes, parents should refrain from bragging about their kids. It’s also good to be really supportive of the other kids - “Oh, Karen had a great race last week; she’s really matured as a runner. It’s such a difference between this year and last - incredible to watch the kids grow up. She’s now a force to be reckoned with.”

-Do NOT be afraid to tell your daughter to stand up for herself. A fair amount of my friends got picked on in high school, and most of them regret not standing up for themselves. Years later, it’s all swell that my classmates finally think of me as the nice, sweet, smart girl, but I frankly hate their guts. (The teasing got to the point where some teachers noticed it, noticed that it was worse for me than for almost any other student, and expressed concern to my friends. It got so bad that I wanted to kill myself, because I could not live like that and could not imagine my life changing.) But there’s a difference between “nice” (i.e. too spineless to express an opinion that doesn’t make people happy) and genuine caring and compassion. Encourage the latter; discourage the former.

Tell your D to take the poster to her next track practice. Address the team (or likely offending individuals) and give them what-for. (Give her the same advice that you would give a son. Trust me - it breaks the girl drama cycle.) She should stand up to them, coach watching, point to the poster, and say, “This is NOT team spirit. Our team does well because we all encourage each other and push each other. We will succeed when we work together to do well, not cater to insecure drama queens. I don’t kill myself running races because it’s fun to be half-dead at the end; I do it so that I can help us win. If I have the ability to run 5:30 splits and don’t do it to coddle your fragile little egos, I’m letting the team down. You want teamwork? Try talking to me as an adult and having a conversation with me about how I can be a better teammate and cut the passive-aggressive pathetic whining.” (It’s late at night, but this is a fair approximation of a rant.)

-Yeah, the “nice” girls are often the worst. I’ve had “nice” girls do some pretty lousy things to me… and I’ve learned that I have to play nice with them, because, if I don’t, I’m the big bad tough girl whose picking on Miss “I’m so Sweet and Defenseless.” It’s the epitome of “Survival of those who Pretend to be the Weakest”

Funny thing was, I learned this the hard way the first time. Second time, different girl, drama issue of Miss Minister’s Daughter steals my boyfriend whom she met through me at my party. I called her up, got the scoop, yelled at him, using her info, was sweet to her, and never said a bad thing about her. Just said that the guy was a skeeze.

As much as I’m not a fan of playing nice, there’s no alternative with the sacchirine girls.

Northstarmom · September 16, 2006, 12:18pm

" She was stone cold silent. Later, during a phone conversation, she blurted this out…“Well, I really WAS surprised to find out you were Jewish because you ACT like a Christian!!!” Puzzled, I asked her what she meant by that and she said, “Well, you’re so nice and your kids are so nice!” Yep. Sad, but true."

I find it more uninformed or ignorant than “sad.” My guess is that she’d never been around other Jewish people before so had no idea how Jews act. Perhaps her idea of Jews was a mob of people yelling, “Crucify him. Cruicify him.” What she said was very ignorant, but it doesn’t sound like she was being cruel.

I was participating in an ongoing leadership training program earlier this week, and one exercise focused on the Bill of Rights and what rights we would give up if we were invaded by a country who said that we could only keep 5 of our Bill of Rights-guraranteed rights.

One person, an elected official said that we should never give up freedom of religion because its a Christian country, and then she said that of course, everyone in our small group is Christian. I didn’t bother to tell her then that I also practice Buddhism, but I do plan to bring this up some other time. I am sure that her reaction will be something like, “But you don’t look Buddhist.” My choice will be to condemn her for her ignorance or see my role as expanding her perspective.

soozievt · September 16, 2006, 1:15pm

I must say, we have very witty and intellegent posters on this forum.

Aries, your “rant” as to what the BFG’s D should say about the locker note got me to smile. It is all right on though is on the ranty side and risky, but I like the idea of standing up and saying that team spirit is important and that each person’s contributions is to help the team. I’d like to see a coach enforce this but I must give you credit as a young woman who feels empowered to stand up. More need to do the same. I realize yours was a late night “rant” which got me to smile, but the content of the rant, if taking out some tone, really is the core of the issue.

Northstarmom, you got me to smile with the “Crucify him, Crucify him” reference :D. But I also think you are right that in some instances, like the Christian playgroup mom, it is more about ignorance, than an attack (compared to the swatstika at school or other anecdotes shared here). In t he case of ignorance, use the opportunities to teach and expand that person’s perspective. My kids were one of the only Jewish ones in their entire school. They met with ignorance a lot. They learned to speak up and educate…whether it was with others who could not believe they were not celebrating XMas and assumed they were, music teachers who only taught Christian holiday songs, or teachers who did religious holiday activiities which only made them stand out more, etc. So, in those situations, educate.

In the more attacking situations, while it is difficult, it is important to stand up so that others know it is not acceptable to make anti Semitic attacks. That is a hard one to fight alone but should be reported to school authorities and yes, there is power in numbers if there is an organization that stands behind you.

StickerShock · September 16, 2006, 1:52pm

I really hope berurah’s town in Kansas is a rare exception. I’d also agree that the mom was not informed, rather sheltered, and not necessarily a bigot. By simply being another nice, normal mom in the community, berurah will expand the perspective of this mom & others like her. “Look, Ethel, there’s one of them NICE Jews!” I really think we’ve long ago moved past the “Jews killed Christ” bias. Much of modern anti-semitism can be explained by pure jealousy: Jews have achieved successes in many fields far, far beyond their numbers. It’s astounding, really. Plus, there are still plenty of media protrayals of mercenary Jews that compound the problem.

I’d just like to add a note to soozievt’s suggestions for educating others about the Jewish faith. In my town, which is overwhelmingy Catholic, (85% -most of the rest are other Christian faiths) we have long respected Jewish traditions. We can no longer use the term Christmas in the school, we have “Holiday” reicitals & sales, rather than “Christmas” ones. Every trace of the Christian tradition has been eliminated in the public schools. Yet Hanukkah is taught! In fact, there are only two current Jewish familes in my son’s elemnentary school. One dad comes every winter to give a talk to all the classes, pass out dreidels, etc. Stars of David are used to decorate the hallways, along with Frosty the Snowman, Rudolph, & some Kwansa decorations. No Jesus, or manger, or angel, or star, or Wise Men, or Mary, or Joseph in sight. This same dad, who is so warmly welcomed to share his traditions, raised a STINK when one teacher passed out handouts about John Paul II’s life and place in history after his death. So tolerance goes both ways.

soozievt · September 16, 2006, 2:51pm

StickerShock…I’'m afraid that I am going to really open a can of worms here but here goes…

I do not think that school recitals or sales should be “Christmas” ones. Christmas is a religious holiday (not a National one) and as such, not all families are celebrating that holiday and kids who are not are made to feel different. Christmas can be celebrated in the home and in the community but I don’t think school is the place for it. I think there are so many wonderful themes for a holiday concert that do not need to be Christmas ones. Themes of peace and community, etc. IF a school really really wants to do Christmas activities, then they need to be balanced out with activities about other religions.

My kids have been made to feel very badly at holiday times at school. I have so many countless experiences in this way. In K, the activity one day was to all write letters to Santa. The class also had a tree. My child didn’t want to have to write to Santa. I volunteered on the day of the Santa writing to provide another letter writing activity…making Hanukah cards to send to people celebrating that holiday. Every year at XMas time, our jurnior and senior high school chorus performs and it includes XMas songs only. In fact, they are not merely holiday songs like Winter Wonderland but ones like Silent Night singing about the baby Jesus. When my D would speak up about having some songs about other religions’ holidays, the teacher (who has been the music dept. head for 30 years and should have access to such music material), has made it my child’s responsibility to locate such sheet music if she wants them to include it. She did that one year. Following year, same thing again, and she said if my D cared so much, to then provide some materials for them to sing. Teacher never saved previous material in interim, nor located materials after this was an issue the previous year. Each year, D was asked to do Xmas caroling around the school as part of the required Chorus class and she really did not want to have to do that. It is one thing to study and learn about other religions in school and it is another to have to participate in their rituals. I would like school to be the one place where they aren’t bombarded with Christmas. And if a school feels they MUST do these things, then balance it out with things about other religious observances. Frankly, I think church and synagogue are better places for this but if public schools feel they also must do religious holiday activities, then they ought to be more inclusive. The way they do it now is to make anyone not in the majority feel singled out and different and uncomfortable.

In elementary school, I did go in every year to my kids’ classrooms and in fact, have been called back to do it long since my kids were even in elementary school, to do a bunch of Hanukkah activities. The children at school benefitted from learning there were other kids celebrating other holidays and my kids benefitted from not being made to feel so different and could share a bit about their cultural things.

By the way, Rudolph is associated with Xmas, like stars of David are sometimes associated with Hanukkah, so in your school, they were hanging up decorations about all the religious holidays. Perhaps a better decoration would have been dreidels than a Star of David for Hanukah. My guess is that those who do not know enough about Hanukah, chose the Star of David as the symbol whereas the Star of David is a religious symbol, not associated with a holiday. Thus Rudolph and a dreidel are more congruous.

It is one thing if my kids were bombarded in the community with all things Christmas (the usual commercial things but also every person on the street would ask them what they are asking Santa for, etc.), but it is another when they are also bombarded with religious holiday stuff at school. Studying religions is a different matter. Participating in religious activities at school, doesn’t have a place in my view.

TheGFG · September 16, 2006, 2:57pm

Sticker, I think we must live in the same town!! Jewish traditions were ignored for a long time in mainstream American culture, so as I Christian I don’t feel slighted by the fact that the pendulum has swung the other way. However, Jewish celebrations are now given such prominence in our elementary schools that every single one of my Christian children went through a phase where they decided they wanted to celebrate Hanukkah. We also have quite a collection of dreidels at home that my kids have been given at school. They never got a manger scene, though.

I do not believe the public school should be in the business of educating about religion–ever. They invariably mess it up. For one thing, the school could never properly represent the diversity of beliefs within our community or even within the major faiths. For example, we are Protestant. Invariably, the representative of Christianity who is invited to speak at school about our beliefs is Catholic. My kids have asked why we don’t pray to Mary like they learned in school that Christian do. Also, the school always incorrectly makes Santa or Frosty the symbol of the Christian winter holiday. That offends me.

Northstarmom · September 16, 2006, 2:57pm

"I do not think that school recitals or sales should be “Christmas” ones. Christmas is a religious holiday (not a National one) and as such, not all families are celebrating that holiday and kids who are not are made to feel different. Christmas can be celebrated in the home and in the community but I don’t think school is the place for it. I think there are so many wonderful themes for a holiday concert that do not need to be Christmas ones. Themes of peace and community, etc. "

I agree. I don’t think that religious holidays should be done at all in school. It’s not possible to balance them out by reflecting all possible religions and nonreligions for that matter. If people want their kids to celebrate religious holidays, they can do that at home or in their place of worship.

Hanna · September 16, 2006, 3:20pm

One of my mother’s colleagues had a similar experience in a small Southern town where the family was living temporarily. The children in question were in third and fourth grades, and from day one, there was constant cruel taunting and severe physical attacks from the other children (“We won’t let you up till you say Jesus is your personal savior!”) The older child went to her teacher to complain. The teacher’s advice? She told the child to pray.

soozievt · September 16, 2006, 3:32pm

Northstarmom, that is how I feel…my first choice is to not celebrate religious holidays at school at all. It is the one place my kids should feel not bombarded with this. I think the place to do so is at home or in affiliation with one’s place of worship. My second choice is that if schools won’t do the above, though they should, then at least attempt to balance it out and not just celebrate one holiday. But truly people in some places act as if Christmas is a national holiday like 4th of July and it is not. They seem to “forget” it is a religious holiday. A lot of it is just ignorance and so my kids do try to raise awareness little by little. Even the people who know they are Jewish, can’t believe we don’t have a Christmas tree!

gla · September 16, 2006, 4:32pm

Berurah:
I and my children have both gone thru what you D is suffering. I know it is difficult to stand up to anti-semitism and that the natural choice for teens to make is to try and not stand out, but it is absolutely necessary to stand up to bigotry. I am feel ashamed for aquiesing to anti-semitism when I was a teen. And though my kids were furious at me for ‘making a fuss’ when administrators at their school refused to address taunts, I think they now understand why it was necessary for me to deal these problems. They never go away and we must learn to confront evil. I say confront, but it is also important not to be combative. The Mom in the ‘Christian playgroup’ was probably more ignorant than malicious. Better to genly educate her as to why her remarks were wrong and hurtful. Attacking her will only harden her attitudes. The same with the school administration. They cannot see things from your perspective and therefore feel that these anti-semitic attacks are only childs play.
Of course, none of these strategies are likely to be effective What exactly were we ‘Chosen’ for anyway?

Allmusic · September 16, 2006, 4:49pm

Personally, my Jewish kids don’t need to sing Dreidel songs at the holiday pageant. We were Ok with “Frosty the Snowman”, just felt uncomfortable with songs like “Away in the Manger” or “Joy to the World”.

Some perceived anti-Semitism really is just curiosity (a friend of mine, who went to teach in Alabama, got some great gawking stares from the mothers before the first day, all standing there and commenting, "We just wanted to see for ourselves, since we heard we were getting a NY JEW!). I think that is just ignorance, not anti-Semitism.

But I have been in the company of people who use phrases like, “Jew them down”, “Hebe” etc. yes, in modern times. The people who perpetuate stereotypes, who act like all Jews are rich, rule the world (or want to take it over) are pushy etc., IS anti-Semitism, and I think we never let that kind of behavior or action go. It needs to be addressed, immediately.

I do feel for Berurah’s kids, since it is really hard to be one of very few Jews. It’s much harder to speak up, much harder to address, when you don’t have strength in numbers.

ariesathena · September 16, 2006, 5:14pm

I think that it is imperative that some form of religion be taught in schools, but as part of a history or civics or philosophy (or all three) class. If not for the most rudimentary religious teachings, most kids would live in ignorance of other religions and what they say. Books in English can be chosen that represent at least a part of a different faith. So much of history is tied up in religion that the two should be taught in conjunction. (That’s some of what I really loved about history in college - they taught us WHY, for example, the Romans ruled the eastern and western provinces differently, why Christianity spread, etc.) I’m not sure how you can understand current events without understanding religious conflict.

Ideally, yes, kids would be taught various sects of all religions in a perfect, accurate manner. Imperfection shouldn’t stop people from trying. I just don’t know how you can teach civics, current world events, Western Civ, or the classics without teaching religion. You can’t even teach a lot of English without teaching the Bible - the Bible, the classics, and Shakespeare being the “Big 3” for literary allusions.

Northstarmom · September 16, 2006, 5:32pm

“I think that it is imperative that some form of religion be taught in schools, but as part of a history or civics or philosophy (or all three) class.”

Certainly it’s impossible to teach history without also teaching about different religions. How else could people understand, for instance, the crusades, inquisition or the French revolution? How could they even understand the history of Pennsylvania without knowing something about the Quakers.

However, that’s different than having school Christmas concerts, posting the Ten Commandments, or having students memorize Bible verses or pray during public school. I’m not saying that’s what you meant by religious teaching, but I know that teaching the Bible, etc. is what many people think public schools should be doing, and I disagree.

Northstarmom · September 16, 2006, 5:37pm

To understand world history, it helps to be familiar with the Tao, suttras and Koran.

soozievt · September 16, 2006, 5:44pm

I agree that teaching about religions in the world is important. That is not the same as celebrating or partaking in religious events at school.

Like Berurah’s kids, mine were one of the only Jewish kids at school.

My kids don’t need to sing Dreidal songs at a school concert either. We’d prefer no religious holiday songs. But when ALL they are singing is about Baby Jesus and the manger, etc., then at least don’t make them feel left out as if nobody even recognizes that just maybe someone is celebrating a different holiday. I’d rather see none of it at school. Also there are many holiday songs about the season that are not so tied to the religious observance. Better yet, there is a ton of great music out there to sing that has nothing to do with the holidays.

Alumother · September 16, 2006, 6:41pm

My family of origin is Anglican by tradition, but not religious at all. My sister’s husband is Jewish. Although the family of origin is not religious, I have to say we celebrated Christmas with all the trappings, including an old creche. Having my BIL in the family, we have had our eyes opened to what it is like to be Jewish in America. As secular humanist types, we never really understand before how hard our traditions can strike others, to us they just seemed like wallpaper.

So I am always glad when schools celebrate just a Winter Holiday, and either reference multiple religions, or none at all.

StickerShock · September 16, 2006, 10:04pm

But soosievt, read my post. Dreidels are passed out (and they are decorating the walls, not just the Star of David) & Haunukkah lessons are conducted. But Jesus, Mary, & Joseph are excluded! It’s as if some 1984 scenario is taking place, where we all pretend a major religion --Christianity – doesn’t exist and we dare not slip up and mention Christmas. Rudolph has nothing to do with Christmas. It is a silly song from a 1970’s tv show.

I agree with GFG that when religion is taught, invariably they mess it up. But I agree with ariesathena that it is impossible to understand history or philosophy or current events without an understanding of religion. A child in my son’s elementary school who was not raised by a religious family would assume Judaism is the only religion, for it is the only one ever presented.

And soozievt, if your d’s don’t have an interest in singing Christian hymns, then the bulk of the beautiful classical genre is closed to them. That has never been a problem for the world’s renowned Jewish artists & conductors who perform it in venues everywhere.

walkermom · September 16, 2006, 10:16pm

stickershock and theGFG

<a href=“You are being redirected...”>You are being redirected...;

This explains the current interpretations of the law concerning religious celebrations in the school and why there’s a difference between decorating with mangers, baby Jesus and angels and Christmas trees and Santas.

I also wish that the schools did none of it.

StickerShock · September 16, 2006, 10:22pm

I guess I’m not understanding your meaning here, Alumother. There isn’t a single “bad” message or connotation you can connect to the message of Christ. Peace, love, forgiveness, tolerence, generosity, etc. I’ve been the minority in many situations where the “tradition” was foreign to me. Haven’t most people? Should the tradition be changed because not everyone embraces it?

It’s ironic that in another CC thread, people are tiptoeing around the issue of “slutty cheerleading moves” and how to delicately and tactfully suggest to the administration that these should be toned down. But sing “Silent Night” at a winter concert and Americans United for Seperation of Church and State swarm in.

StickerShock · September 16, 2006, 10:24pm

walkermom: Then why are Christian symbols banned, but Jewish symbols allowed?

Defenses against jealousy

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