Deferred letter questions

<p>Daughter was recently deferred. She is Hispanic, 28 ACT, 3.68W GPA; 3.5UW GPA. OOS at one of the higher ranked public schools in Illinois. School does not rank. Good grade trends... had just slightly over a 3 GPA freshman year, just shy of 4.0 for soph through 1st semester of senior year. Typical extra-c's, swam fresh-soph, varsity CX junior senior, violin for 7 years.</p>

<p>Part of the deferral letter read as follows:</p>

<p>"After a thorough review of your application for admission to the University of Wisconsin–Madison, the Committee on Admissions is unable to make a final decision on your file and has postponed your application. As part of our continued review of your application, you will be considered for admission through the Center for Academic Excellence (CAE) in the College of Letters and Science.
CAE offers specialized academic advising, academic workshops, free tutoring and involvement in high-impact learning opportunities. To ensure your continued academic success CAE will help your transition from high school to the university. This assistance begins at Student Orientation Advising and Registration (SOAR) which takes place the summer before your fall semester. Some students will also be selected to participate in a summer bridge experience."</p>

<p>Does anybody know exactly what this means? Is she more likely to be accepted through CAE? Is she likely to be accepted after being deferred? Can she still do her intended science/pre med through this program?</p>


<p>The final admissions decision is most likely independent of the other points. You can read about CAE here Programs</a> for Students, College of Letters & Science, University of Wisconsin – Madison </p>

<p>My guess: your daughter is being included in CAE due to her minority status and the University wants to make sure she is successful.</p>

<p>The University doesn't do a direct admit to a major. Basically, everybody goes in generic and selects their major or applies for selective majors after the first or second year of study. </p>

<p>I would suggest she send additional letters of recommendation, send an e-mail or letter to her Admissions Counselor at the University stressing her interest, and if she hasn't sent first semester grades, to send them in as well.</p>

<p>Thanks. Yeah, I see it is because of her status. I am not clear if referral to that program makes it more likely to be admitted or not. Her stats are not off of the average Wisc student, so I am not sure what help they really feel she needs. And I do understand that majors do not affect admission, but this looks to me to be a different college than her preferred major would be in. It seems a little odd (if she were to be accepted into the College of Letter Science) to be accepted into one college and have a major based in a different college.</p>

<p>Also, I read somewhere on line there was a controversy about minorities getting preferred treatment in admissions at Wisc. I am not sure if that still exists or if this program, is part of that process. I can't imagine that if it is some type of preferential treatment program that they would reject somebody with the stats of an average Wisc student, but who knows. It is unclear to me.</p>

<p>Recommend that you take a look at the admissions spreads for Wisconsin on I think you may be over-rating the stats as "average for Wisconsin". 28 and 3.5 unweighted appear borderline for Wisconsin. Perhaps this will shed a different light on the opportunity - it sounds like a pretty good program.</p>

<p>Not at all. I know he GPA is slightly lower than average, and her 28 ACT is a solid score for Wisc. Cappex said she is a "solid candidate." And I/we do appreciate any opportunity and knew Madison was no guarantee...we are just trying to figure out what it means.</p>

<p>Regardless of the CAE special program it means your D falls into the vast middle group of students UW has to sort through once the application deadline has passed and they know which students they will have room for. Application numbers have grown so much in recent years I think they're being more conservative in saying "yes" to many students. A few years ago they ended up with more students coming than expected and this meant more freshmen competing for the same number of spaces in popular introductory classes. UW is making students wait for a final answer until they know how many stellar applications will be received by the February 1st deadline. Frustrating but better than having no clue. As above- the CAE program is to help certain minority groups whose backgrounds may not be as good as the typical white student. It will not affect any potential major. Being a member of a historically underpriveleged minority may give an edge for admissions, it will not hurt her. Students are admitted to the university as a whole and can change their major at any time. Remember that by definition 1/2 of the accepted (or matriculating?) students will be below the average, just as 1/2 will be above.</p>

<p>Actually that is the median.</p>

<p>More on CAE-- University</a> of Wisconsin Madison - Academic Advancement Program</p>

<p>I believe barrons posted information recently that indicated last years 25-75 ACT slot had moved to 27-31 for most recently entered students, so a 28 might be below median now.</p>

<p>I know - average isn't median. Generality- 1/2 are below the median, not average. The concept people need to remember is that many students will below the magic numbers listed for mid range et al.</p>

<p>A few comments.</p>

<p>First, the Student Center shows ACT percentiles for Wisc students. It shows that her 28 composite ACT is the 58th percentile, and her English score of 33 is at the 90th percentile. Despite the fact of an above average composite score and superior English score, the program she was referred to requires students to meet with a writing instructor. This is from the site:</p>

<p>"First-Year Students Must:
◦Meet a minimum of four times with their dean face-to-face per semester (Fall and Spring)*
◦Meet at least one time per semester with Larry Edgerton, AAP Writing Instructor
◦Meet with their Peer Mentors face-to-face once per semester as well as meet with your mentor cohort three times a semester during AAP First Year Seminars." </p>

<p>To me, it is nonsensical to require somebody with a 33 English ACT subscore to meet with a writing instructor, while the typical student has no such requirement. I understand Madison is competitive to get into, and lots of qualified people get rejected. However, that is the point; that is, you can be qualified to do the work and not be admitted. It is one thing to consider ethnicity as a favorable factor for admissions, but quite another to admit people and assume that they need some type of special assistance. It is one thing to offer the help to those in need, and another to assume all need the help. Her English subscore is good enough to place out of English at Chapel Hill.</p>

<p>The opportunity is appreciated. I understand that some people with her stats get rejected. But many with her stats get accepted. It is not as if her stats indicate some special type of academic assistance is needed to survive Wisconsin. I could see forced help if her stats were significantly below the average Wisc student, but that is not the case. She has been admitted to numerous fine schools, and none have a program like this one.</p>

<p>I personally recommend disavowing the notion that admissions is "assuming" anything - this is a savvy and experienced operation they are running at UW. This is my third student (the other two went to private college/universities) over the past eight years, so its not an uninformed view on that. That idea about "assuming" may be clouding your judgement and, of course, we all have just a little bit of ego invested in college applications which often doesn't help us arrive at an objective point-of-view right away. Are you really certain about the quality of the essay? And the content of any recommendations? And do you know what Madison's experience with students from your high school is? I know you keep indicating you think the qualifications are "average" but every scattergram I look at for UW says they are borderline. And in the end, as you know, the standardized tests are secondary considerations behind the GPA. </p>

<p>The lesson here? The kid needs to begin taking more personal responsibility, and start picking them up and putting them down a little faster in the classroom. I think you are getting a reality check here, not some kind of back-handed, off-handed or condescending slap that you seem convinced of. They are willing to help and, again, look at every scattergram you can find - those facts don't fit your "average" story. Madison is the deep end of the pool - there are a lot of students with far more intellectual firepower and motivation than your student has demonstrated so far. That's a cold fact and externalizing its source is self-defeating.</p>

<p>As I explained, I know people with her stats get denied, and some get admitted. And the ACT is what it is...above average by their own sites stats///58th percentile. Grades may be slightly below average. But my point is not that she must be admitted. The point is that if she is admitted, her stats do not indicate special help is needed. Some here want to act as if I am complaining that she should have been admitted or even should eventually be admitted...I am not. But if she is admitted, she does not need special help simply because she is Hispanic in English when she in an A student in English and has a 33 ACT subscore...the 90th percentile.</p>

<p>Thoughtful response and I can appreciate where you are coming from - wish you luck in this. If the admittance comes, I am sure you will find an open ear regarding this at the University.</p>

<p>28 comp WAS in that percentile. Now it's not. It's probably in the 40's as 29 is 50th in THIS class (Fall 2011). Not every piece of data is updated at once. Trust me. I do not know why you hold on to some old bad data like a lifeline. They got 26000 apps two years ago and over 28000 for the class Fall 2011. They could easily hit 30,000 for Fall 2012. It might be 30 for Fall 2012. 28 might be 25th percentile.</p>

<p>I don't hold onto data like a lifeline. Her scores are listed in the student center and the percentile is next to her composite score and each subscore except writing and English writing combined. I would assume that the percentile they place next to her test scores are accurate, but I don't work there. If not, it seems like a major flaw that wisc puts old percentiles next to your scores.</p>

<p>At any rate, a 28 ACT is the 90th percentile nationally, and my point was simply that her stats do not call for required help. Her 33 English is like the 97th percentile nationally, and it good enough to place out of English at Chapel Hill. Please explain the logic of a score that is good enough to place out of Chapel Hill is one that requires special help at Madison.</p>

<p>Again, this has nothing to do with admissions. My daughter was denied at Chapel Hill, and I have no complaints. But had she been admitted, I would have had a problem if she were forced to get help in an area where none is needed. And I guarantee you there are boatloads of people at Wisc with 28 or lower ACTs and 33 or lower English subscores who are not forced to get unnecessary help...that is my only point.</p>

<p>Just a suggestion, at this time her ACT score is irrelevent. It doesn't matter whether it's near the mean, median, ranked in the 95th percentile nationally, whatever. Your D was deferred for some reason, maybe ACT had nothing to do with it.</p>

<p>Obviously, you are fired up about the referral to the CAE program. I have no facts other than what you've posted, but have you considered that the reviewers looked at more than D's English ACT score? Was there something on her transcript, in her letters of recommendation, or perhaps essays that suggested she might need some extra help?</p>

<p>I assume Wisconsin's intent is to make sure your daughter is successful, and that they had a reason to specify the CAE program. Maybe you're correct with your inferences that she was slotted toward the CAE program because she is hispanic (self-reported). </p>

<p>There are students on campus right now that would welcome the extra help and guidance offered by the CAE program.</p>

<p>If your D has mastered English related subject matter, did you consider they may back off after your D takes the placement test?</p>

<p>I wish nothing but the best your D.</p>

<p>Thanks. I know their intent is good. And we really do appreciate that she is still in the running to go there. And maybe I am wrong, but my guess is the referral makes her chances for admission pretty high. We will gladly take the trade-off of being accepted if it means having some required meetings. </p>

<p>There was nothing in her application that would indicate a lower ability than her scores indicate. Her letters of rec and essays were teriffic. My GUESS is that ethnicity plays no role initially and my D was deferred like many others with similar stats. And my GUESS is that from that point, people deemed to be a minority are referred to this program and probably have a greater chance of being admitted on second review than other non-minority people with similar stats that were deferred. So I assume overall it is a good thing as it may help her get admitted. But the REQUIRED help seems to cast them all into one boat and indicates an assumption that they are not able to handle the work. My other GUESS is that the programs are required so that Madison can keep close track of the stats and try to assure success and to demonstrate the program works.</p>

<p>So I get that the intent is good.</p>

<p>University</a> of Wisconsin Memes - Wall | Facebook</p>

<p>Don't worry about it. Parental obsessions don't do any good. Often certain things trigger an opportunity because many of those with the characteristic often need it. An example is that my son was targeted for possible help when he went through the kindergarten admissions process because his father's first language is not English- son was already a reader. I have found other examples of the system trying to help when it was not needed but have figured it is better to not miss those who may need it and include those who don't. When it comes time for the actual UW experience things will work out. Despite being a huge institution it is run by individuals including professors who pay attention to the person and not posted guidelines et al.</p>