<p>Over the 4th of July weekend, we attended a neighborhood gathering. One of the men at the party has depression (his wife told me this a few months ago -they’ve lived in the neighborhood about 3 years - they both are professionally employed. They have 2 daughters and 1 son…pre-teen/teen years) </p>
<p>What surprised me is that after he had a few beers, he became what I think is “an ugly drunk.” I’m not very familiar with all that, so I may not be using the right descriptor.</p>
<p>He wasn’t mean or rude to most people, but he became quite rude to his wife. It was embarrassing to everyone who witnessed his impatience, petty remarks, and (to the best of my knowledge) untruthful criticisms directed at his wife without any provocation. </p>
<p>Since I don’t like to witness such things, I did try to diffuse some of it with humor (as an attempt to lessen the wife’s humiliation), but he didn’t stop. My H tried to distract him with other topics. Finally, the wife made some excuse as to why they needed to go home. </p>
<p>I haven’t spoken to the wife since this happened, and I’m sure that she’s very embarrassed. I’m guessing that she might prefer some “time distance” before even having casual conversation with those of us who witnessed her H’s behavior. </p>
<p>What is this…and is this ugly drunk behavior connected to depression???</p>
<p>(BTW…I don’t know how much he drank, nor do I know if he drank before arriving…so I don’t know if he was really intoxicated or what.)</p>
<p>Good for you and your husband to try and defuse/distract. I haven’t heard of that link before (ugly drunk/depression) but since one way to look at depression is ‘anger turned inward’, maybe the alcohol helped the anger get out. His wife is, unfortunately, the closest target who he know won’t leave him. So she’s also a safe target (sick, I know).</p>
<p>How close are you to the wife? Could you catch her without her husband being around and just ask a very open-ended question like “how’s your summer going?” and see what she says? She might be so embarrassed she’ll avoid you, but maybe not. </p>
<p>Also – did it seem, from her expression, like this was an uncharacteristic outburst or did you get the feeling that he’s like this with her a lot, but just in private? The wife was the one who told you about her husband’s depression. Maybe that was a euphemism for verbal abuse or some other disorder.</p>
<p>I think this woman might really appreciate a good listener right now. Good luck.</p>
<p>My sister is married to a similar man and she is sick to her stomach about the whole situation. She knows that he has acted like the man in your post. She has since witnessed the entire neighborhood sneaking around the back side of someone’s house to attend a party that they were not invited to. She is embarrassed and somehow wants the neighbors to know that SHE still wants to be their friend, but doesn’t know how to handle the situation.</p>
<p>She is trying to do Al Anon and to look for a job in order to have a plan B, but with 3 little kids she is feeling very frustrated and alone. She is stubborn/proud and wants to try and handle this on her own, but I think a smile from a neighbor or an offer for a cup of coffee when H is absent would be a well received gesture.</p>
<p>I think the “ugly” drunk is either connected to depression or to a very low self esteem.</p>
<p>I have been noticing this more and more, especially in older married couples, especially with men. (Heck, a similar situation occurred yesterday when I was filling gas at Costco & there was no alcohol involved–just aging & anger.) It is painful to witness/be subjected to and may be linked to many things–anger, depression, hopelessness, fear, even some potential mental health and abuse issues. It is hard to figure out what to do and how to help in these situations as they can be delicate.</p>
<p>Recognizing it is one step, trying to help those involved is a much more challenging issue.</p>
<p>Had a close family member who had no depression but was an alcoholic and and ugly drunk. He was the NICEST guy sober, and a horrible drunk. He eventually hit bottom, dried out in his early 40’s, went through rehab and has been sober for some 20-25 years. he remains a nice guy to this day. He was like Jekyll and Hyde, though. And it was the alcohol. His wife loved him sober, hated it when he drank. Lucky for him (and her) he chose to stay sober. Thankfully we have not “seen” that other side of him in a very long time.</p>
<p>the genes for alcoholism and the genes for depression are in the same place, if that helps.</p>
<p>Also, alcoholics are frequently able to convince medical professionals that they have depression. Alcohol is, afterall, a depressant.</p>
<p>However, one of the defining features of alcohol addiction is a jekyll/hyde type reaction. If you get close to the wife, or if she ever brings it up, and you feel like she “wants your advice” (I wouldn’t give it unasked), you could suggest she go to alanon. </p>
<p>She has since witnessed the entire neighborhood sneaking around the back side of someone’s house to attend a party that they were not invited to. She is embarrassed and somehow wants the neighbors to know that SHE still wants to be their friend, but doesn’t know how to handle the situation.</p>
<p>Oh poor dear. </p>
<p>Can she arrange a “girls night out” or something like that? a lunch? she must feel very unfairly ostracized.</p>
<p>*How close are you to the wife? Could you catch her without her husband being around and just ask a very open-ended question like “how’s your summer going?” and see what she says? She might be so embarrassed she’ll avoid you, but maybe not. *</p>
<p>I know her pretty well - which is why she confided about the depression awhile back.</p>
<p>When she told me, she said that he blames her for his depression. She said that he expects her to have no faults and criticizes her for any mistakes…innocent mistakes or misunderstandings…or when she says, “what” when she didn’t hear what he said the first time. </p>
<p>Now this was odd…he told her that it upsets him to see her happy. It upsets him to see her having fun with the kids, or pets, or just enjoying a movie, book, etc. </p>
<p>It made me wonder…how would her being “unhappy” make him less unhappy???</p>
<p>Oh…and …he gets mad if she’s startled…you know, like when you don’t hear someone come in, and it startles you.</p>
<p>She shared some other odd things as well.</p>
<p>The whole thing reminded me of trying to make sense out of nonsense.</p>
<p>People are insecure about their imperfections so they become depressed. Depressed people drink. Depressed drunk people become suddenly extroverted, so they cover up their insecurity by projecting it upon others, therefore pointing out their flaws and criticizing them.
That’s how i think of it at least ;)</p>
<p>I agree with poetgrl. Do not give advice if not asked. And while I can understand the advice to go to AlAnon, I would suggest that the friend go to a professional counselor first.</p>
<p>My father self medicated his PTSD with alcohol. He could be a happy drunk, but when my parents were having marital issues, he became quite a mean drunk, and would take out his anger at my mother on me. And he would not remember any of it afterward.</p>
<p>My mother not dealing with him taught me enabling behavior, modeled poor relationship skills, and left me myriad issues that took me years, much therapy, and one crappy marriage to sort out.</p>
<p>I would encourage anyone that had a friend or relative in such a situation to be supportive, though it’s tough because it often takes an incredible amount of effort on the part of the spouse to break the cycle and find the self esteem to be able to deflect the abuse and blame.</p>
<p>If not for the spouse, then for the kids, because they are just being taught that this is normal, and that the people that are supposed to love you and nurture you instead are irrational and can turn on you for no reason and treat you like dirt.</p>
<p>*I agree with poetgrl. Do not give advice if not asked. And while I can understand the advice to go to AlAnon, I would suggest that the friend go to a professional counselor first. *</p>
<p>Oh I agree!!! Especially with the al-anon suggestion. I don’t have any idea if she thinks her H is an alcoholic and hearing that from a neighbor would further her embarrassment and may cause her to defend him. I know that she thinks he drinks to much at times (she used the word “binge”), but I don’t know if she’s put the “alcoholic” label on him …she may have, she may not. ???</p>
<p>She did tell me that they did try counseling…and he got very angry at her for telling “her side” because he prefers “his version” where everything is her fault. He’d interrupt her. Their counselor wasn’t able to get him to be quiet while she was trying to give “her side”. And, then they stopped going…I think she may have said that the counselor asked them not to return because the H wouldn’t let the counselor control the session…or something to that effect. </p>
<p>Now…Jym may have insights on the above and this…the wife said that when her H saw a counselor by himself (a person that she never met), her H would come home and say, “yes, my counselor agrees that you’re a terrible person and it’s your fault and you’re crazy.” </p>
<p>That just didn’t seem plausible (to me) that a counselor would say that. Would a counselor pass judgment on another spouse that the counselor had never met? I guess if a client said that “my wife hits me with a belt,” then a counselor might have an opinion. </p>
<p>She said that she doesn’t know if he told HIS counselor about his occasional binge drinking. He got mad when she told THEIR counselor that he binge drinks.</p>
<p>Oh…I thought this was very odd…and I don’t know if this is related to depression or what…</p>
<p>She said that he normally has a good memory for his job (STEM stuff), but his memory for other stuff is really bad. </p>
<p>So, she had to start keeping a calendar to refresh his memory when he’d disagree with her. She gave fishing as an example…he’d say, "I haven’t been fishing in 3 months, so she’d have to show him on the calendar that he just went shipping like 10 days prior…and maybe again the week before that. Who’d forget that they just went fishing 10 days prior? Or, he might say, “We only go to movies that YOU pick out.” So, she started keeping track of what movies they go to so that she could show that the selections are pretty fairly split. </p>
<p>And, one time he was looking at their banking online and saw several hundred dollars debited at a warehouse store (like a Sams) the day before. He yelled at her, and she said that she hadn’t been there in a week and didn’t spent that much. He didn’t believe her. It turned out that the debit was for some stuff that he had bought there, including some Rx for him. How could he forget that he was at that store the day before and spent a large sum of money? </p>
<p>memory-less system? </p>
<p>There were other examples but I forget the details…But, I remember thinking …how can an intelligent highly-paid professional not remember these things? She didn’t think that he’s bald-faced lying. She believed that he really doesn’t remember these kinds of things.</p>
<p>lol…this reminds me of my dad…When mom wanted to get new living room furniture, my dad said, “what for, that furniture is only a couple of years old.” Well, mom is one to keep receipts …and she pulled it out…the furniture was 19 years old. But, my dad was in his 80s at the time…so confusion is expected.</p>