<p>MWC–I think I posted on that thread. You CAN bank on an October likely letter from an Ivy league school. They are as good as gold. That has never been disputed on CC threads. I know of many examples of kids getting those letters and they attend those schools.</p>
<p>MOT–Thanks for the clarification. I initially wrote “Ivy league”–then wondered if I had my facts straight. Now…do the Ivies have ‘standard’ financial packages that go by stats? Or would they be likely to ‘offer’ a RA a much better ‘package’?</p>
<p>I know I have brought this up before, but I want to say that the likely letter has to come from admissions, even from an ivy. When my son applied to Brown, he received a letter from the admissions office saying that some departments including athletics had sent out letters that were mistaken for likely letters, and they wanted to make it very clear that only letters from the admissions office had any standing on admissions. That was the only school that sent such a corresponsdence.</p>
<p>That isn’t what I said. I agree that you can bank on a likely letter. Admissions has already cleared you if you get one. It’s when you DON’T have a likely letter, which many recruited athletes do not, that you can not be absolutely certain that you will be admitted. I think Princeton admitted 60-70% of the recruited athletes who applied ED.</p>
<p>Agreed. The October ‘likely’ letters are issued by admissions. But the coaches must be making the majority of the ED recruited athlete decisions since the apps aren’t even in …</p>
<p>btw…congrats to dstark on the long(est?) running thread on the parent’s forum…:)</p>
<p>Mom - ED according to most the folks here is tantamount to signing a Letter of Intent since you would have to be the moral equivalent of French Peace Keeper or Abu Ghraib prison guard to back out of it would be pretty stupid or only done by the morally obtuse.</p>
<p>You want to see the NCAA D1 requirements go to the NCAA web site. There are requirements for number of sports, minimum and maximum scholarships overall and per sport and when you can split them into partials and when you cannot. Baeball is a spliter and football is full ride only. Many schools will have individual sports with unfunded scholarships but they must still meet the overall requirement. There are also attendence requirements for football games as well as scheduling requirements. Basically if you can legislate it the NCAA has done it.</p>
<p>The Ivy’s do have to meet and follow all of the recruiting regulations vis a vis contacts, campus visits, inducements etc. etc. etc. BTW you would probably be amazed to find out how many football players are going to college on Major league Baseballs dime. Tulane’s star running from a season back, Mwelde Moore now playing football with the Vikings went to school on MLB money. He was also a double major and graduated early! Could have really used him on the baseball team but he was pro in that sport.</p>
<p>Ah folks there is a big difference between an October likely letter and ED. The coaching staff is the one wanting the likely letter because they don’t want to be wasting their time and recruiting budget going after a kid they cannot get into the school. Even DIII no-name podunk U’s with practically open admissions go through that process. It is not the same as a formal application.</p>
<p>I think that all these arguments have already been presented (no offense xiggi). I think that it’s time for this debate concerning me to stop and for the thread to resume its original purpose (free ride vs. more prestige). I really think I’ve heard just about every opinion there is to this problem. I appreciate everyone’s time and input, and I hope there are no hard feelings.</p>
<p>xiggi - where did you take your contract law course? </p>
<p>1) I am not positive and I definitely am not a lawyer (so anyone who is and wants to set me straight feel free) but I do not think most HS kids have turned 18 by Fall of their Senior years so with a few exceptions are not able to sign binding contracts. Unless the ED agreement is signed by the parents it is worthless legally.</p>
<p>2) I am not clear what the consideration is buying. The student has agreed to pay an as yet to be determined amount of money (EFC) and to take out loans or do work study or recieve tuition remission for the remainder of the tuition to attend the university if the university admits him. He is further promising to withdraw any other applications he may have made to other universities. In return the university is promising to what? review his application and to accept or reject it by a given date (Dec 15)? Assuming that is what the contract is and it is not nugatory what damages can the university pursue?</p>
This is a common problem in personal service contracts. Pton can’t get damages and a court won’t make them go to Pton against their will (this would be involuntary servitude), but a court can enjoin them from going to school somewhere else, on the logic that an agreement to attend pton is an implicit agreement not to go somewhere else.</p>
<p>All I know is that all of the Ivy’s except Harvard and Yale use ED plans as oppose to EA plans. The ED plans allegedly commit you to attending the the schoo; chosen and to paying the EFC as determined by FAFSA and require you to withdraw any other applications if you are accepted (generally by Dec 15). The ED application for Princeton is due by Nov 1. The NCAA regulations do not allow you to sign a football NLI (National Letter of Intent) until Feb and has a list of recruiting regulations covering institutions, students and coaches as long as your arm. Coaches for instance cannot contact football recruits by phone until Sept of their Sr. year with the exception of a single phone call in May of the Jr year. You can check out the details here:</p>
<p>The only thing I know is that the two kids I knew who are playing Ivy football were each recruited by D1 schools and made their decisions in the Spring. Maybe they were the exceptions but the NCAA calendar certainly isn’t set up in any way to accomadate recruiting of football players by colleges during September and October of their Sr years and that is the last time of year HS football coaches want their start players thinking of anything except the next opponent.</p>
<p>While I have may not taken any classes in contract law, I think that the schools using Early Decision contracts have access to a few legal eagles.</p>
<p>Your comments lead me to wonder if you have ever read an ED application and the warnings that are clearly spelled out. Contrary to what you advance, the students does not promise to meet his or her EFC as this figure is not available at the time of the application. The school makes no commitment to meet the EFC. It is for this precise reason that Early Decision is not a great option for anyone who needs financial aid.</p>
<p>The differences between ED, EA, SCEA, and RD are extremely clear to anyone who can read an application.</p>
<p>Haha, have you missed a lot Dke. This has fallen by the wayside since Page 17, scroll halfway down to where a student ValdezVivas has asked for parental advice on getting out of ED from Princeton to take a full ride from Texas A&M.
Enjoy!!</p>
<p>Patuxent- Football is a little different. In fact, there are very few football kids who overlap with the Ivys (espec Harvard) and D1 programs that would be throwing money at the kid. The academic standards at the Ivys are still higher than a lot of football players can meet- even with the consideration given athletes. There are a few, of course, and those kids would most likely not go ED. There are about 25-30 other D1 sports at the Ivys, though. I know the “lesser” sports (swimming, track, squash, lacrosse) encourage ED. This is truly off topic.</p>
<p>Valdez, you are not OT since you are choosing a free ride over a “more prestigious” school, even breaking your binding ED contract to do so. I doubt if Princeton will give you much trouble. They will mark your file with a “broke ED contract” for future reference if it ever comes to that, and you will likely be free to go to Texas A&M which is a fine school but is unlikely to have reciprocity agreements for ED with Princeton, so it is doubtful that your scholarship and acceptane there would be jeopardized, which is something that would be a possibility if it were a school that had such an agreement. Good luck there.</p>
<p>My S was a recruited athlete at an Ivy. D1. ED. No scholarship offered and that was well-understood at the outset. </p>
<p>I always thought that one circumstance under which the Ivies issued likely letters (S did not receive one) was for athletes who were choosing between them and a D1 school that “signed” their athletes by a certain date, and the likely letter would be sent as a sort of non-guarantee guarantee of admission so that the athlete would not feel as uncomfortable about passing up the guaranteed guarantee of “signing” with a regular D1 school.</p>
<p>I’ve also read many times on these pages that a large part of the Ivies’ ED classes are recruited athletes. At least one athlete I know who chose to wait until RD to express interest has already been told by some schools that there are no spots remaining open on their teams for her to be considered.</p>
<p>i’m not sure if anyone’s said this yet, but i very clearly remember reading in a college guideebook that you will more than likely get blackballed from other prestigous universities if you back out of the binding ED agreement. i guess thats not the case in question now, but generally i think they communicate with eachother on these matters.</p>
<p>I think that blackballing thing as well as any reciprocity agreements between universities vis a vis ED would come pretty close to conspiracy in restraint of trade. If a school feels a students has violated a contractual agreement by backing out of an ED agreement then their moral and legal remedy is to sue. Has anyone ever heard of a student or his parents being sued for backing out of one of these ED agreements? Or are the sharp legal eagles at the elite universities who draw them up a little reluctant to test them in a court of law?</p>
<p>ED is a way for the rich to jump the line. For that reason I understand why it is popular with a some folks. I also see the advantages of it to the schools. But I don’t see the advantage of it to society as a whole. Of course nobody ever said business ought to benefit society only that in the long run it probably would.</p>