Did anyone's child choose a free ride over a "more prestigious" school?

Parents Forum
701

<p>I do know that Henry’s niece, I think a pretty good student, just started at A & M. My son’s best friend knows her and her mother from his highschool in Houston. If needed, I could get Henry’s number. I saw Henry speak at my sons’ friends graduation in May at a public highschool here in Houston. I was very impressed. The best highschool grad speech I have ever heard. He really seemed to have put some thought into it. </p>

<p>It shoud be Henry and not George and Condi and the bunch.</p>

<p>Princeton in general offers more opportunities than A & M. However, A & M is promising this kid I believe much more attention than he is likely to get at Princeton. In Texas among tens of thousands of Aggie alums A & M will open doors like any top school. I imagine like Berkeley or UCLA in Cal. On par with UT in Texas except with Longhorn Alumni.</p>

702

<p>Texdad, if Virginia wants to go private, it can give up all the assets it has accumulated over the years. And then, it can go find another area to locate. </p>

<p>My daughter is enjoying Michigan and finding the school tougher academically than she thought. She says she is the worst student at Michigan. She sees bright people everywhere (And a few questionable students).</p>

<p>I want my next kid to look at the ASU honors program. He wants a big school. Maybe, with the honors program he can get great academics and the big school experience. At this point I don’t know that much about the program.</p>

<p>Good luck to your son.</p>

703

<p>Wish it, I agree. I can’ t believe I did that. It is one of my pet peeves also, Soon to be 55 year old eyes.</p>

704

<p>“A merciless dissection of the ED game and “enrollment management”. A spirited defense by the IVY crowd who feels their sense of privilege and merit attacked and come to the defense of the game.”</p>

<p>Texdad, my posts in this thread must fall in the category of “the defense of the game”. However, I would hardly be considered to be a part of the IVY crowd and I am not protecting a false sense of privilege and merit. I have not so much spoken in defense of the game as against the looser and cavalier approach towards binding agreements such as ED. I have rejected the notion -a notion rejected by our judicial system- that ignorance could be an excuse for questionable decisions. Understanding what moral obligations and ethical behavior are transcends all classes of society and is expected from all. </p>

<p>I’ve already stated that I do not consider the position of Valdez to be offensive or “that” questionable. After all, he never sent the acceptance back but faced the problem straight on. I consider his situation very different from students who might accumulate mutliple acceptances or abuse the system by holding “temporary” acceptances and still play the game all the way to May. My biggest issue is with people who are digging deep to find faults in the system to eventually find justifications for egregious actions and abuses. There are times in life when one has to accept that rules, albeit unfair, are to be respected. </p>

<p>As far as the differences between an education at an Ivy or at Texas A&M, I do not think that generalizations can be made. We should not forget that Valdez valued Princeton so much that he decided to make it his ED choice. I took the opposite road: for years, I was certain to attend a State School such as UT or Texas A&M. Contrary to Valdez, I rejected the Ivies altogether and did not consider the combination of less than desirable location and predominatly northeast student body to be attractive. </p>

<p>However, the negatives of large state schools cannot be ignored. Soon after being admitted at UT and TAMU, I realized how quickly I had been reduced to slightly more than a number. This is not an indictment but a realistic appraisal of schools that are facing record enrollment, dwindling budgets, and and coping with an image crisis. I still like UT and TAMU -a lot- but the school is not for everyone. Some may like the anonymity of sharing the facilities with 50,000 other students. Some may be flustered and frustrated by the intense competition for anything from housing to class selections. When it comes to education, there is no question that it can be at level equal, and in some cases superior to the Ivies’. The reality is that one will have to battle to secure it throughout his four … or five years at the school.</p>

<p>It is not difficult to find successful alumni such as Henry Cisneros from UT and TAMU. One of the persons I respect and admire the most -despite his political party affiliation- happens to have shared his room with Cisneros while at school. He also graduated from TAMU and HBS and has been a US Congressman for many years. His latest claim to fame has been to be reelected as a democrat in the district that contains George Bush’ ranch in Crawford. </p>

<p>It is obvious that Valdez has a very hard choice to make -even if he does not have to get rid of a beloved truck! I think that his life would be both easier and more exciting at Princeton, but at a higher price tag. </p>

<p>That said, putting tremendous value on Princeton being an admission ticket to a world of riches and elite social status is a collosal mistake. The only question is where would Valdez be happier!</p>

705

<p>Texdad, your post was the one I set up as a good example!!! If you had a run-on one earlier, it didn’t prompt me to post - it was your recent nicely paragraphed one that did!</p>

706

<p>Texdad, if I said what I was thinking, I probably wouldn’t be welcomed back to this site and heck, I have 2 more to get into college. You set progress back a hundred years with your comments. Suggesting that minorities or the poor are not supposed to think like those born to privelege is an insult to all. Yes Texdad, we blacks be selling out and acting like the boss man when we go to elite schools and gain entry to some of the world’s best jobs, nice homes in good neighborhoods and great educations for our kids. And suggesting to a young man in Texas that he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know and that it might be helpful to leave his back yard might just be the best advice he’ll ever get. Hopefully your own son will leave Texas and your prejudice behind for a school like Grinnell where he will have the opportunity to meet some of the evil elite and figure out what he thinks for himself.</p>

<p>But your last comment was perhaps the most telling, suggesting he further disregard the process by sending in yet another application. Beautiful, just beautiful!! And I thought there was honor down in Texas.</p>

707

<p>Xiggi, ignorance may not be defensible in a court of law.
If I don’t know a rule, I don’t see it as unethical if I break it. It’s not like it was a counscious or unconscious decision to break it. </p>

<p>Some people think ED is:
A) Binding.
B) Binding, except for financial considerations determined by the family.
C) Binding, unless something comes up.</p>

<p>I believe in B. In some situations, I might also believe in C. It depends.
I guess I am lacking in morals.</p>

<p>How is Claremont? I have a couple of friends whose kids are considering the school.</p>

708

<p>kirmum, do you think ED helps minorities get into the top schools?</p>

709

<p>Wish, soooorrry! Window of time and typing fast. I hope that the merit situation is looking good for your son. </p>

<p>Xiggi, yes, ‘go where you’ll be happy’ was our approach as well, supplemented in this way: </p>

<p>“Go where you will be happy and get good teaching.”</p>

710

<p>Kirmum, Texdad can defend himself, but he was talking about an attitude. He was talking about the attitude “I know better than you do”. That attitude.</p>

<p>He wasn’t talking about race, or minorites.</p>

711

<p>Henry Cisneros is considered “successful”? Am I thinking of a different Henry Cisneros?</p>

712

<p>Yes, I think it gives minorities the same boost as anyone else. I think a kid like Texdad’s son should absolutely use the URM card. The reason minorities are given the boost is that so many have had limited opportunities for broad exposure to the world and all of its opportunities. Limited exposure to those who’ve worked hard from all backgrounds to achieve. Prejudices and disadvantages based on lack of exposure.</p>

713

<p>Dstark, the only attitude I find troubling here is the one shared by you and Texdad, reverse snobbery.</p>

714

<p>Well, I’ll have to work on that.</p>

715

<p>From conversations that I have had with admissions officers, it seems that once the deposit has been paid, a student can break the ED agreement (without penalty) if illness or another catastrophe strikes. Otherwise, to terminate the ED agreement means the loss of the deposit. It seems that the penalty should be bigger when you consider the more overwhelming issue of ethics. For parents to agree to such a thing has a greater ramification for the future moral values of the student. Just my two cents’ worth.</p>

716

<p>On the question of educational environment/excellence; Ivy vs State:</p>

<p>Do not forget there are numerous unquantifiable lessons beyond “book larnin.” Having attended an Ivy, I can say that while the professors were almost uniformly excellent, and while I learned a great deal in class, my “real” education involved a great deal more, outside class. </p>

<p>I credit my Ivy education with a big share of my success in life-- and I was never snapped up by a Wall Street firm! I have always been self-employed and had a fun, flexible, exciting career. (Yes, also financially successful but for me this is secondary to the fun part.) My school inculcated independence, creativity, drive, and passion, and I know I would not be where I am today without what I learned there, outside of the classroom.</p>

<p>I learned to be comfortable with people, mentalities, and situations I would never have encountered at a UC (including both the “lockjaw preppy” children of the power elite and kids who’d grown up with single moms in ghettos.) </p>

<p>I learned to navigate without red tape & without a core curriculum-- which was a major preparation for real life when nobody maps your road for you. </p>

<p>I learned, and really internalized, that anything is possible-- from having nothing but successful interactions with an intimate, supportive administration and personally-involved professors, who backed virtually any student initiative. </p>

<p>I learned balance, because I was able to continue in a bunch of ECs without having to vie for spots against tens of thousands of competing kids. </p>

<p>Most of all, I learned to thrive within a dynamic and intellectually-exciting group of interesting, passionate people-- people who had basically been hand-selected for the specific strengths & oddities they would add to the school. The whole student body felt awed, priveleged, and overjoyed to be in such an incredible place with one another. </p>

<p>Think of touring the Smithsonian with a group of 100 versus a group of 10… Even with the same guide, the experience would be very different. Similarly, while excellent students & teachers are to be found in many, many schools, there is a sense of excitement, intimacy, possibility, and energy in an elite Ivy or LAC that is very difficult to match in a large state school environment. </p>

<p>This is why I am one of the “idiots” willing to suffer to send my kids to one if they can get in. I want them to experience the sort of “launch” into their adult lives that meant so much to me.</p>

717

<p>dke - I had to laugh at “they’re so rich.” When our S was about 9, he returned awestruck from a neighbor’s house, who had just added two granite light posts out front ( not too ostentatious, but getting there), with “they must be rich, their house is like a mansion.” 2 lt posts do not = a Hummer, but money put aside for college and retirement feels a lot better to us than having a house which looks like a mansion.</p>

718

<p>jmmom,</p>

<p>After one very elegant party at a friend’s gorgeous home my 10 year old son pleasantly & matter-of-factly stated “Compared to them, we live in a shack!”</p>

<p>We decided to point out that compared to 99.9 % of the world, we live in a mansion…</p>

719

<p>SBmom, it’s interesting to me that so many of the people determined to give their children an ivy-like education, and willing to make sacrifices to do so, are the ones who have experienced said education. There is an assumption on the part of some that this is to perpetuate the aristocracy. To me, it’s simply that we know what we got out of the experience. My son is at UCSD now, a fine State school and is in a major that ranks at the top among all schools. However, the contrast is stark when compared to an ivy or fine LAC. All of the things mentioned from crowded classes to lack of relationships with professors are making his experience totally different than what his sister is about to have at Columbia. I was naive and had really not seen the contrast when helping him make his decision.</p>

720

<p>My wife and I came to the US nearly 30 years ago as grad students, and learned to spell ‘garage sale’ and ‘thrift shop’ very quickly :slight_smile: . I’m proud to say that both our daughters picked up the habit, too. We decided early on that our first priority was to save our money to get our kids the best education we possibly could. No regrets.</p>

<p>I’m glad to see there are other posters on this thread with similar thoughts…</p>