<p>SBmom- Good lol from your “shack” story. We need a lot of lol’s, I think, on this thread as the going is getting very heavy with name-calling starting to go back and forth.</p>
<p>kirmum,</p>
<p>Well put. Maybe from the outside the benefits are harder to grasp, because surely, lots of State U grads get great educaitons, go to great grad schools, etc.</p>
<p>I would be curious if there are any alumni of top LACs/Ivys who feel that their education was not worth the money &/or would not support the same for their child?</p>
<p>By most standards, yes, Henry Cisneros is successful. A friend of mine–on the opposite side of the political fence–holds Cisneros in high regard. Part of the old TAMU “corps of cadets” network. A former cabinet officer, succesful businessman, etc., yeah, he’s done okay.</p>
<p>
Exactly. I noticed that immediately, especially after doing full time dual enrollment last semester at a large public university (where I had good professors, but 100-300 [often less-than-motivated] students per class).</p>
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<p>The penalty can be much more … some schools will withdraw their acceptance if they find out that this student did not honor their ED commitment to another school. Trying to switch without a release from the ED school is definately risky.</p>
<p>kirmum - Totally agree. I wasn’t part of the aristocracy when I entered Wellesley (12 yrs of parochial school education), and I’m not part of the aristocracy now. I value the education I got, it’s emphasis on teaching. And, my friends there were also not born into the power elite, but public school products. I will cop to a bit of elitism in the sense that I do presume the education can be counted on to be top-notch at such LAC’s and HYPS as well as certain strong public universities. The education can be great elsewhere, I’m sure, but it can’t be presumed so. Most of us who got our education at “the best” want the best for our S/D. We don’t necessarily define the best as Ivy - my son only applied to one HYPS out of a total of 5 apps. </p>
<p>As others have said here, probably every single person on this post values education. We may disagree on other issues in this thread, but what other reason would we be here on CC if not that we place our S/D’s educations above Hummers, cruises, etc?</p>
<p>Personally, our family is affluent, no other way to look at it. But we still drive a car until it dies, carry no consumer debt for “stuff,” put our priorities on education and want our S to be always thinking about his priorities. He has most definitely learned to place a high value on education from our modeling, our active participation in his education from day one, and our efforts to help him make the best choice for him next fall.</p>
<p>SBMom - my H got his BSEE at Univ. of New Hampshire. I got my BA at Wellesley. He later got an MSEE at Jns Hopkins “Evening College” while working. I got MBA at Stanford. $ for $ he earned more (because of his chosen field) than I did. And he will be the first to say that one can be just as successful with a UNH or similar degree. But I don’t feel that “it wasn’t worth it” because of the $ “return on investment”. For all the reasons that others have outlined, college is not just about the money (price of admission OR how it will “pay off.”). So I do think it was worth it, but maybe what I need to compare is not Wellesley to UNH but HYPS/seven sisters to less prestigous small LAC’s. That would be good to hear from others on.</p>
<p>I had missed a few posts while typing my previous one. :)</p>
<p>In re: “It shoud be Henry and not George and Condi and the bunch.” I think that Henry had his day in Washington where he demonstrated the same tendencies to succumb quite easily to external demons than his mentor from our Arkansas neighboor. It is obvious that a large percentage of the american public does not see to worry about that much about the flaws in integrity and character of charismatic individuals. The bad news -not for me- is that are too few of them to to win sufficient votes to regain 1600 Penn Avenue. Draw your own conclusions. Cisneros has been very successful in his career, but he is no longer electable. That is the problem of being a model - like the photomodels, the closer you get, the more wrinkles one will notice. </p>
<p>On the further subject of Cisneros, I always assumed that his roots were in San Antonio and not Houston, and that he was a product of the SA Catholic schools. At least that is what my SA family likes to tell me. But what is the difference?</p>
<p>On subjects I have had some experience with -such as a caring environment- … if I had to make a list, I would NOT put Texas A&M and UT-Austin on the top of such list. I found their various offices -especially at TAMU which is a royal PITA- to be distant, uncaring and rather aloof, except for the occasional work-study student. If you expect that the school will tend to your needs without hesitation, you better reassess your expectations. On the other hand, the people at ASU and at the Barrett Honor’s College could not be nicer and more helpful. UT-Austin is hard to overlook for Texans but ASU provides a very valid option, in the same vein as Tulane if you can look beyond its location in Louisiana. </p>
<p>Lastly, when looking at options, it is good to remember that the URM card does not help you at TAMU or ASU, and will have a very small impact at UT, if any. In the case of TAMU, it is wise to explore the reasons behind the existence of TAMU Corpus Christi and TAMU Prairie View. </p>
<p>Caveat Emptor</p>
<p>Good point, Wish-it-was-April. Sometimes I don’t realize how long a post might be 'til after it gets posted. But that’s what the “edit” option is for.</p>
<p>Dstark, I blame you and the soon to be outsourced guy from Westlaw, Patuxent for getting me into this. At least I’m now only blamed for reverse snobbery and not setting civil rights back a 100 years.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I wasn’t referring to you. I remember your elegant posts on UT vs LAC’s. I’m still open on the small vs. big issue. I took note of your nuanced thinking with respect to Valdez and ED. I bring up the small vs big issue to my son often, and would not be adverse to paying say half for Grinnell. He is the one who wants UT. Interestingly his mother who sort of wanted Ivy, didn’t like Grinnell at all. She and I really liked Oberlin, which we also visited. Son didn’t. I do hate snobbery and the assumption that privates are inherently better. When Kirmum actually talks about distinctions between UCSD and say Columbia and not just money and connections it doesn’t activate my terrible case of “reverse snobbery” so much. </p>
<p>Although part of me thinks it is sad to take away our “revese snobbery” when it is all we have.</p>
<p>PS, I was joking about a late app to UT. It is a Texan thing between UT an A & M.</p>
<p>Texdad, there is no problem at all. The beauty of this board is that it allows the exchange of different viewpoints. I also think that one learns more from the posters who disagree than from others. I believe in supporting my opinions and viewpoints -sometimes with too much passion or aggressivity- but I really try to understand the other side. </p>
<p>If we always agreed on everything, this board would be soooooo boring!</p>
<p>Good luck in your quest to find the best fit for your son.</p>
<p>Texdad, our son, my wife and I all loved Oberlin too. We visited on a dreary Friday afternoon but the spirit was palatable. On exiting the Admin Building for the campus tour a group of student in kilts and blue faces raced by for a Braveheart reenactment at the Wilder Bowl. There battle cries could be heard all the way to the Conservatory buildings. My son thought the bike co-op was a great idea with vintage models available all over campus. Finally the raggae/ska band playing on the portico of the student union capped a fine visit.</p>
<p>He really enjoyed his first sementer there and his winter term “project” was an awesome, and I dont use that work often, experience. I have talked about it on another thread(<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=22297&page=3[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=22297&page=3</a>) and will be giving a more complete update after he returns on the 25th.</p>
<p>It is an interesting college and definitely not for many students. It seems to be in a 70’s time warp. The fact that it has a top notch music conservatory on campus adds to its uniqueness.</p>
<p>Jmmom, I went to Wheaton (Mass.)which is considered 'second tier"…I worked like a dog and loved every minute of it…the experience that I had there was terrific…turned me from a B student at a northeastern boarding school to a Dean’s List student…not because the bar was low, but because the profs were wonderful and the curriculum was stimulating…we all worked hard there…through the weekends…and when some of us went to the “top tier” LAC’s on the 12 college exchange we all compared notes…many of us thought that the bar was lower than what was expected of us at Wheaton…maybe because we were second tier Wheaton felt it had to prove something…who knows?..We all had terrific internships, spent alot of time in Boston, and made the best friends we’ve ever had…it was invaluable…I’d be happy to have my two go there…top 50 or not.</p>
<p>I think that the overwelming majority of students who attend the super elites could get a perfectly fine education and find plenty of kids like themselves at a school a tier down. There is a small group of kids at the top (like top 5% at Harvard or MIT types) who probably would not have a critical mass of like-minded peers, graduate level opportunities as an undergraduate, and facilities for research, to meet their needs at a school below the very top tier.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I’m going to take issue with one of your nuances, here, that it wasn’t ‘that’ questionable because Valdez didn’t send in the acceptance right away. Unless I’ve missed something, which is entirely possible through the reams of posts, he got his acceptance mid-Dec, and his offer of mega-merit aid at A&M came two or three weeks later. When he rec’d the Princeton acceptance, he should have withdrawn all other acceptances, and he didn’t. He had pledged that Princeton was where he wanted to go and that he would matriculate if accepted, yet left another offer on the table. So he wasn’t entertaining multiple offers, but he was entertaining two. If there was a problem with Princeton’s aid, that should have been addressed, if that was the reason why he didn’t send in the acceptance right away. Still violates the letter and the spirit of ED in my opinion. But otherwise I agree with your assessment. </p>
<p>As much as I like Princeton, I’ve never said Valdez must be forced to go there because of his transgressions. Someone posted that this could affect kids at his high school who might apply to Princeton in the future, because he is from a school where the counselor, at least, would have understood the seriousness and details of ED. I certainly hope that is not the case. But it just goes to show how many little cans of worms are opened up if not really careful with agreements such as ED. </p>
<p>As to reverse snobbery and snobbery in general, I think you have to be careful not to make sweeping generalizatons about people according to where they go to school. If my child hadn’t chosen to go to Princeton, the favorite remaining choices were a public, an ivy, and an LAC, not in any particular order. Not random choices by any means, but very carefully explored along “fit” issues and strong academics. </p>
<p>Peace, all.</p>
<p>(Sorry, jym, my edit option had expired before I read Wish’s post and I hadn’t seen my post after I’d sent it. Can I still somehow edit afterwards? Maybe I missed that…where is it?)</p>
<p>Cricket-
No problem. Your post is easy on the eyeballs. I believe we get about 20’ to edit our typos and such, with the option in the lower right-hand corner of the post. After the 20’. I believe you have to seek permission from the almighty moderatiors. (That’s a compliment, moderators).</p>
<p>Don’t worry Cricket - interested readers will read it! But I appreciate your and everyone else’s efforts from now on to remember old eyes.</p>
<p>Thanks for remembering that my S was hoping for merit offers. He did get such an offer at the school that seems to be his top choice. We are awaiting news on two more. It is an enormous relief. It will still cost a pretty penny, but the merit money makes it so much more palatable.</p>
<p>Too bad S doesn’t read CC - he is of the opinion that no school is worth $40,000 a year, and I imagine he’d have quite a few comments to make on this thread. Frankly I can argue that one both ways. I attended an excellent, small state university for undergrad, and a large state U for grad school. My H taught at an ivy, and now teaches at a state school. My D attended a fine LAC, her top choice, which gave her a generous merit package. So we have some experience to draw upon. As I said, I could argue it both ways. But S - and to some degree H - remain unconvinced that the high priced education is truly worth the undiscounted high price. We were trying to get him to remain open to the possibility - that he consider attending without merit money. But we were not making too much headway.</p>
<p>I guess it is not unlike a vacationer who will stay at a resort hotel but only if he can get a discounted hotel room and real low air fare, using 2 for 1 dinner coupons…</p>
<p>wish<em>it</em>was_april, are there any opinions about the high priced education vs state schools that your husband has that hasn’t been stated here?</p>
<p>April, a good friend of mine has a H who had very strong opinions on the matter. His two kids from a previous marriage went to State U, and did fine. So did their D. Both friend and H were also state U grads, and very happy with the experience and education. </p>
<p>Then their first son was up for college. Well, this one was such a pain all through high school, and made goofy mistake under the sun. Could write a book on his excapades, and would make many a parent feel like their kid is a true prince. This one stumbled over every milestone. It was very clear that he was not state U material. If he could even get into State U which was doubtful. But there is Northern State U and Eastern State U, certainly a number of state options that would even take him. Which would have been a total waste of money, discounted though it might be over a small private college cost. I will say the man does deserve accolades for his business acuman because he recognized the situation as well, and the young man did got a a small private LAC where he did graduate after 6 long years. There is not a doubt in anyone’s mind who knows the kid that it is a miracle he got his degree. There are definitely times when State U is not the place for some kids. And many of them are not likely to get a dime in rebates on the tuition. As, my friend’s H says, “the college earned every penny of that tuition all 6 years S was there. And I would have paid double to have him somewhere for that time, even if he had not gotten his degree.”</p>