Did atrocious on the SAT; SAT Optional Suggestions?

Parents Forum
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<p>Also, I have only ever gotten two bad grades which were in math freshman year. I got two D’s (72’s). I actually got an academic letter in the beginning of this year. I had a great grades sophomore year. I am struggling a little this semester because it is so much harder. Also, people who tend to go to VSU and other state schools did not take AP/Honors classes. I have friends who go to Kennesaw, Georgia State, West Georgia etc and they never took one AP class and they hardly took any honors classes. I do not want my AP/Honors classes to go to waste. In my eyes, my schedule isn’t very easy or else I would have a 4.0. Honors Physics and APUSH kills my GPA. I actually took AP Physics the first two weeks of school, but it was too hard. I would have taken AP Lang, but I didn’t test into it. I have always scored average on standarized test scores. I got B’s/C’s in elementary school, but then started to get honor roll in middle school. I try very hard to get a 3.4. I raised my GPA from a 3.1 to a 3.4 freshman year. My academic performance has been consistent since then. I am doing a little worse then last year though.</p>

<p>In most Georgia state schools, once you have the requirements you are in.</p>

<p>I honestly am exhausted when I come home from school. I no longer have swim team, but my mind cannot take any more work. I also usually watch my little sister or take a nap. I eat dinner and then I do homework which takes a couple hours, so I never have time to study for the SAT/ACT. I could study on the weekend, but sometimes I just need a break from school in general. I took a $90 prep class at my high school for the SAT and it was a waste of money. I want to go somewhere else, but my parents cannot afford/do not want to pay for a prep center for $600. I also don’t see the point in studying so hard when I am probably going to apply to SAT Optional Colleges.</p>

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<p>Early-college, I know you consider your course-load to be rigorous, but the standardized tests suggest that despite the titles (honors, AP), the actual content is weak. If you are getting a good grade in an AP course, but end up with a 2 on the AP exam, that suggests grade inflation (or weaker course content).</p>

<hr>

<p>“Also, I don’t think taking Algebra 2 junior year will necessarily sink an app or someone’s college readiness. Due to a placement error in middle school that my parents never corrected, I ended up taking Algebra 2 junior year (and AP stats senior year). I still did fine when vying for large merit awards and did well (B’s) in pre-calc and calc for non-math majors as well as psych stats (A) in college.”</p>

<p>Agreed, Algebra2 as a junior is not the end of the world - - but it does put one at a distinct disadvantage when applying to compet colleges (and does suggest that early-college should consider schools w/ less compet admissions). And not all college offer special math courses for non-math majors - - especially at the pre-calc or calc level (since those intending to major in math usually enter having already completed these courses). At some schools, pre-calc level courses don’t satisfy the distrib reqs.</p>

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<p>^</p>

<p>Again, not in my experience, even applying as a bio major (at a competitive, science and math-heavy u) and direct admit pharmacy programs. YMMV. Also, I’ve seen many college with separate calculus courses/sequences for math/CS/physics and everyone else, so it’s not uncommon at all, IMO. You see the same thing with chem for bio and chem majors and then everyone else.</p>

<p>EC, colleges, including VSU, rarely look at weighted GPA, which is used mostly for rank, so for all intents and purposes, your GPA is 3.1 currently. This is middling-to-low by many standards.</p>

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<p>My unweighted GPA is like a 3.2/3.3, but my academic GPA is a 3.1. Drama really helps my GPA, lol. I recieved a 3 on the AP Exam in Human Geography, but I received a 2 on the AP World exam. I am pretty sure I will get a 3 or 4 on the APUSH exam, 73% passed the exam last year. The numbers were lower for AP World. I had a lot of friends who didn’t pass it. There is no grade deflation at all at my school. My APUSH teacher is the hardest class I’ve ever had. We only have TWO B’s without the ten points. He won’t even curve the tests. I never have teachers who curve, it is rare. In my school, 28% of students take at least one AP Exam. I go to a pretty good school overall. It is rated on Newsweeks top 1000 high schools. Most kids do stay instate; however, a girl went to NYU last year and the valedictorian went to the Coast Guard Academy. I know a lot of people go to Alabama or Auburn too. </p>

<p>I understand what you are saying pysch. My SAT scores were lower then my high school’s average. I don’t understand how I could do so bad. Well, I didn’t study so that is probably why. I have AP friends who have gotten 2050 from 1700, it depends. And I seem to be the only one doing this bad, my other AP friends aren’t doing as bad as I am. I know college prep kids who did better on the SAT. There must be a reason why.</p>

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<p>early_college;
Your stats (GPA & ACT) are not too different from DD’s; hers are slightly higher but perhaps not statistically significantly so. She took the ACT for the first time in Feb., and we too were shocked at her low scores. Unfortunately, one cannot order the February answers.</p>

<p>In reading the analysis from the ACT folks, much higher scores are correlated with success in college, so those low scores really scare me. I am convinced, however, that a lot of practice can raise ACT scores since the tests are fairly predictable and more straight forward than the SAT. This means that a LOT of practice can make a difference. Read the stories of CC: At least one test per week, plus analyzing both your wrong and right answers.</p>

<p>My DD is also applying to test optional LACs, but for the most part <em>B</em> students even in those schools balance their lowish GPAs with better test scores. <em>A</em> students may be able to get by with dismal scores. Generally speaking, those better test scores are required for merit scholarships.</p>

<p>I am troubled because you are resistant to studying for the ACT/SAT on weekends. Don’t you want to have options? Are you really committed to doing the work that college requires? My DD is also applying to state schools that sound like the ones you describe: Filled with lower performing students in classes a bit too big. Maybe they would be okay, but she likes being around really bright people and doesn’t like being the brightest or one of the brightest in the class.</p>

<p>Probably getting an ACT composite of 30 is not realistic for either of you. But getting it in the mid-20s is definitely doable and will keep schools from an automatic knee-jerk denial. And since you are interested in journalism, perhaps schools will be forgiving of lopsided scores (i.e. higher in writing, English, and reading).</p>

<p>By the way, have you looked at Lake Forest? It is an LAC in a suburb of Chicago which claims to give good financial aid.</p>

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<p>Thanks CCsiteobsessed:</p>

<p>I am a lot like your daughter. I do not want to be the brightest guy at my college. I rather go to a reach then a safety school. I love Sarah Lawrence’s structure. I love the round table’s and the group discussion. I also like schools which do not give letter grades. I feel like it would be not as stressfull. I actually really like the U of Redland’s program, but I am not certain on what I want to do. </p>

<p>Should I retake the SAT or the ACT? I did about the same. If I retake the ACT, I will do it in June and study very hard. I am in need for a spring break really bad, lol. Also, I really want to go OOS. I cannot take Georgia any longer. I want to go somewhere which is much more open minded and liberal.</p>

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<p>NYSmile, for what it’s worth, my daughter never had any high school math beyond Algebra II, and she got accepted to several top colleges. She’s a different situation than early_college – she had much better grades and test scores, though her test scores were still in the bottom quartile for the reach schools that accept her. But my point is that you can’t look at one piece of the academic record and treat it as a fatal flaw. </p>

<p>Of course my d’s math record was a weakness for her and she knew it – but she had counterbalancing strengths. Her colleges didn’t care about her math weaknesses because they knew that she was unlikely to pursue math in college – she was a good prospect as a foreign language major, an area where she was very strong. Early_college’s course load seems to send the message, “theater kid” – no one really expects the theater kids to all that good in math. </p>

<p>I understand your efforts to inject some reality-based thinking, but I think you go too far, buying into the type of CC-mythology about college admissions that is all too focused on details and stats. </p>

<p>I don’t have a good answer for early_college because of the added financial barriers. The kid won’t qualify for merit aid anywhere, the less selective privates never promise to meet full need, and he hates the state where he lives … but I honestly don’t see a financially workable solution for the kid outside of an in-state public. If the kid had parents who were able and willing to pay full freight anywhere he wanted, he would have dozens of opportunities. Not at US News top tier schools – but at all of those interesting schools that round out the bottom of the list. There are many, many colleges in the US that have wide open admission policies – I just can’t figure out the money part for a kid who has the mixed blessing of living in Georgia. I think he’s going to end up having to give up on the “dream” part and confront the money part.</p>

<p>But I don’t think its helpful to him to create imaginary new barriers (Algebra II as a junior) to supplement the very real barriers (low test scores and 3.1 unweighted academic GPA) that he already faces. With his grades and test scores, there isn’t any college that would admit him that’s going to care that he doesn’t have advanced standing in high school math. It only becomes a liability for students who are competitive for admission at a different tier/level of school. </p>

<p>Toe early_college: the process is the same whether you are competitive for top schools or not. You need a safety you are willing to attend, and once you have that lined up, it really doesn’t matter whether your other choices are realistic or not. If my own kid had been “realistic” then she wouldn’t have applied to half the schools that accepted her. The problem is that you do have to be realistic financially – it won’t help you to get accepted to a college you can’t afford.</p>

<p>Also, I think your career goals are kind of unrealistic – print journalism is pretty much a dying occupation, and it is an area where people get hired more on the basis of work history than college degrees. So you may be better off to get a degree in an area that is complementary and will support your goals, but also give you a wider base of career choices down the line. So you may find it is a blessing in disguise to end up at a school that doesn’t offer the major you think you want</p>

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<p>Thanks calmom! I always appreciate your advice because I know you’re a long time member of CC. I enjoy reading your posts. I do not mind criticism, but I felt there was a line cross with some other posters. I do not feel community college is my only choice. </p>

<p>I am not set on journalism. I am also interested in anthropolgy and sociology. I have a passion for studying the Holocaust as well. Clark University had everything I was looking for (LAC, urban, great holocaust program, liberal, up north). I really not not have a “dream” school any longer. NYU has ALWAYS been my dream school, but I have become very realistic that I won’t be going there. I also wanted to go to LA and audition for films while I went to college. I figured out this wasn’t realistic because I would have to miss classes if I booked anything. I have been acting since I was six and I have an agent. I would love to become a casting director or talent agent and help kid’s dreams come true. </p>

<p>I am from South Florida. I lived there ten years. I actually do not mind Georgia’s weather. I love the change of season and I like that part better than Florida. However, I cannot stand the people here. I honestly am not happy. I have never met so many unopen minded people in my life. I am half Jewish/Italian. I do not have any people to relate to at my high school. I have hated every single day of my high school career. I have friends (don’t get me wrong), but it’s very hard to relate to some people. I also hate how religous people can be. I don’t like it when people push their ideas upon you. I really do not even like the city of Atlanta. I know VSU will probably be my safety, but I know “CC” has the term “love thy safety”. I do not love it at all, it is my very last resort. The AP/Honors kids at my school will probably end up at UGA/Tech. I also hate how my school only cares about football. Football is always before everything. They will cancel a drama performance if it is on the same night as a football game. It agravates me…</p>

<p>I really just want to be happy. Is debt worth happiness? My parents are having a hard time just to get by because my dad’s buisness is very sporadic. We go into our savings a lot. I really do not want to end up at a lousy state school as a number. If God told me I would end up at VSU, I would probably drop down to all college prep classes next year and enjoy my senior year. I know many kids who are just enjoying their senior year and they see college in a different way. I have been researching colleges since 8th grade. I enjoy researching schools honestly. I wanted to go to an early college hence my name.</p>

<p>I also know I can just “suck it up” by going to a state school, but it is very hard when I have spent so much time looking forward to college.</p>

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<p>You don’t have to “love” your safety – you just have to be willing to attend, and when you get there, to make the best of your situation. I do think that Clark would be a wonderful school for your interests … but aside from the admissions issue don’t know how you would deal with the money issue. I understand how you feel about your current hometown – I grew up in a city in Texas where I also was miserable, and also went to a football-worshiping high school. You may actually find that you like the students at Valdosta (if you end up there), better than the students at your high school – maybe football isn’t such a big deal down there – the football players and their fans probably prefer UGA or Georgia Tech. </p>

<p>The alternative I could see for you might be a gap year (or 2) – if you could combine that with employment, maybe you could establish residency in a different state. But other states don’t offer the equivalent of Georgia’s Hope scholarship, so you could find it very hard to come up with in-state tuition somewhere else.</p>

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<p>At some point you’ll need to stand face-to-face with reality. People are giving you good advice here. Look hard at those GA publics, and try to find something you like.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>You aren’t doing well on the standardized tests because you aren’t studying them! That is why. Yes, some people “test well” but you are not one of them so you MUST study.</p></li>
<li><p>“I could study on the weekend, but sometimes I just need a break from school in general.”</p></li>
</ol>

<p>People taking rigorous courses are studying on the weekends. Their parents facilitate their studying from the moment they get home, until dinner. They might take a snack break and a dinner break. They study and do homework for several hours each weekend.</p>

<p>And I’m talking about people in a school similar to yours, with state college ambitions. At my high school, every single college-bound senior was studying for hours a night and hours on weekends, to get into the University of Washington, Evergreen State, Western Washington or depending on the major, Central or Eastern Washington Universities. Exceptions were Catholics and Mormons, just four people I believe, who went to private religious schools. We had all the AP and honors classes offered, no weighted GPAs for us, and the top 20 all had GPAs above 3.6 (I remember because it was a toss up for salutatorian between nearly 15 people for three quarters straight).</p>

<p>None of us even applied to more than one private college. Except for music classes, nobody was taking any PE, art, or anything that was not strictly college prep. I don’t even think anybody was taking choir, except one girl that was really serious.</p>

<p>That was in 1995. Waaaay less competitive than now, because you could get a job in construction or service or whatever, no problem, after high school.</p>

<p>You think you are working hard but you’re doing nothing compared to what many high school students are doing. Weekends off? What are you going to do in college?!?</p>

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<p>"I really just want to be happy. Is debt worth happiness? "</p>

<p>You need to study on weekends! I just do not get this expectation that you should be going to a very expensive private school, and going into debt, if you’re not studying weekends and nights.</p>

<p>How on earth are you going to manage at one of those schools? I mean if you need a break from these academics.</p>

<p>Sorry to be tough, but that is life.</p>

<p>Out-of-state community college is an option, by the way. I knew several people going to Seattle Central Community College to get great grades so they could enter UW.</p>

<p>I should mention here that they were working full-time and studying at every break and yes… on weekends…</p>

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<p>I know all of my friends didn’t study for the SAT/ACT the first time. We all plan on studying hard the second time around. And I do A LOT of homework over the weekend, but I’m not going to do homework every single minute of my life. I WORK VERY HARD to get my grades. I may not have a 4.0, but I still give my best effort and my weekends are consumed with homework.</p>

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<p>Sorry, you said in an earlier post, that I quoted, that, “I could study on the weekend, but sometimes I just need a break from school in general.”</p>

<p>It doesn’t matter what your friends did. I didn’t study for the SATs but I did well on those (that was a long time ago and the format was quite different, but even percentile-wise, I did well). In fact I did better than the valedictorian, or any past valedictorian of my high school. Some people test well, others don’t. I don’t think my scores spoke well of me–what they basically said was I could have had better grades if I’d have tried harder (true). It also doesn’t mean I was smarter than those valedictorians. It just means I do well on tests, possibly better than I ought to. I did much, much worse on the new type of test (CAT), worse than I’ve ever done, so again… it’s really a question of whether it works for you or not. If it doesn’t you have to work harder.</p>

<p>You say you plan to study, but you don’t have time. It just does not make sense.</p>

<p>But that is also because we are not living your life.</p>

<p>One thing is certain: either you study more, or you accept going to a less prestigious college, at least in the beginning. It doesn’t matter whether you have a learning disability, or aren’t working as hard as you could, or just aren’t at that level, intellectually. Your scores aren’t there.</p>

<p>And I don’t say this to be superior. I went to a regional state college, myself. I hated the place (very, very cold wind all the time, ugh, and fewer sunny days than Seattle or Portland) but I loved my profs. Going to a decent state college is a fine option.</p>

<p>However, if you do dislike Georgia, there’s always the chance of going to a decent state school and transferring when your parents move. When are they leaving?</p>

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<p>^“I went to a regional state college, myself. I hated the place (very, very cold wind all the time, ugh, and fewer sunny days than Seattle or Portland)”</p>

<p>Just have to ask… what about Spokane?</p>

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<p>I have no problem with going to a state school. I just do not want to go to a state school in Georgia. Also, here is my problem. I feel if I study very hard for the SAT/ACT it won’t make a difference because I will still be applying to SAT Optional Colleges in the end. I know my scores will improve, but I don’t think it will make such an impact where I won’t need SAT Optional Schools. I still have my safety (VSU) and I have other instate options if the SAT Optional Colleges do not work out.</p>

<p>Also- VSU had a presentation at my high school. They told us the minimum requirements. They lady even said we are becoming a football school. She also stated some of your classes will have 100 people freshman year. If I go to a state school, I rather just stay instate and get HOPE though. I really don’t think any other state school I can get into will be worth the money. If I get into any decent LACs then that may be a different story.</p>

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<p>

But how will you pay? </p>

<p>You are not really in the running for schools that promise to meet full need, and your stats aren’t good enough to get strong awards from the schools that don’t. If you had really weak SAT scores but a top-end GPA, it might be a different story – those SAT-optional schools would see an A student and might be very generous with financial aid. </p>

<p>But when you apply to the SAT-optional schools – they will see a B or B+ student. I have no doubt at all that you will be able to get in – there are many, many LAC’s that are primarily filled with B students. But they don’t give their limited financial aid dollars to them. </p>

<p>I’m sorry, but I kind of see the money problem as being a bigger barrier the academic problems. I would agree with you on one point – even if you get that SAT/ACT score up to something more respectable, it is highly unlikely that it will be high enough to attract merit money. So you are still faced with the money problem: if you do get into an LAC that is a better fit for you… how are you going to pay for it?</p>

<p>You aren’t even in the situation of some kids who have the misfortune to have rich but stingy parents. With 4 kids in your family, an older sibling as well as 2 younger ones, I can see that your parents don’t have a lot of money to spread around, and certainly I would not expect them to be able to finance tuition at a private college. </p>

<p>I don’t have easy answers for you. I can see that you have some real strengths and talents – your acting, your passion and interest for holocaust studies. I can see from your posts to this board that you have the capacity to express yourself reasonably well in writing (good spelling & grammar as well as logical and coherent structure) – so clearly your English & Writing scores aren’t reflective of your true abilities. </p>

<p>One other exceptional strength you have is your motivation and your early interest in college. You have been writing on CC for years, when many of your same age peers won’t get around to thinking about college until next fall. We know that your parents will never show up to cc looking for tips on how to motivate their kid to write a college essay and to get it done on time. </p>

<p>I don’t know how that strength will pan out in the long run – but maybe you are going through some angst right now that others your age will only face up to in April of 2012, when they realize too late that they targeted schools that wouldn’t accept them or that they have been accepted at schools they can’t afford to attend. (I guarantee you, in your state, there are a LOT of kids at the state colleges who would rather be elsewhere, but are kind of stuck in Georgia because of the terms of the HOPE scholarship – not that their options would be better without it – in other states there may be a lot of smart kids who can’t go to college at all for financial reasons.)</p>

<p>Anyway, again - no clear answers. You are going to have to do some out-of-the-box thinking along the way to reach your goals. It may not happen with the route or the timetable you expect.</p>

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<p>I suspect you are very right, calmom. Great GPA and test scores may have led to scholarships that could have alleviated the financial problem. But without them, it’s going to be tough sledding. Good luck…and make a financial back up plan.</p>

<p>It could be the military, or ROTC, or community college, or working for a few years to get some money put together, or a combination of things. </p>

<p>Good luck…</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone! I am really lost on what to do. I have researched colleges for several years, and I really do care about my education. I really do try hard in school, but I have never gotten all A’s. I have recently figured out that a state school may be my only option, but I also feel Georgia’s state schools aren’t that great to begin with. UGA/GA Tech are great schools, but after the flagships the other universities aren’t that great. My grades/test scores aren’t good enough for either university and both schools are way too big. I am very familiar with Georgia state schools and I have friends at a lot of them. They never took many AP classes or honors classes. I am not saying this is true for everyone, but it is for the majority of people I know. I do not want my “hard” classes to go to waste. In my eyes my classes are hard because I can easily have taken a less rigorous schedule. A lot of these colleges have begun to come to my high school and give presentations. These “regional” state universities only require a 2.5 academic GPA. I feel like all my hard work will go to waste. I might as well drop down to all college prep classes. Also, I feel like these schools are way too big for me. I do not want to be in a class with 100 people. The only small public college in Georgia is GCSU, but it is also very rural. I also would never join the military or ROTC. I am not an outdoorsy person at all and would stay instate before I would EVER join the military. Thanks so much again!</p>

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<p>EC-
Can I suggest once again that you try to look at the things you DO want in a school rather than what you DON’T want? With your current grades/stats, if you want a smaller school, want to use HOPE scholarship money (though it doesnt offer a lot towards private schools in GA, its better than nothing) and you want a school with a theater program, have you looked at Oglethorpe in Atlanta? It is gorgeous, and you can probably get involved with the GA Shakespeare theater company in some capacity. There is a remote (very) chance there might be some scholarship $ for students with your GPA, though your SAT/ACT scores won’t qualify you. Other schools to look at in GA are Reinhardt (in Waleska), Piedmont, Mercer (Macon) and Berry- also a gorgeous school (in Rome), if you are looking for private LACs (if you can afford them). A public to consider is N Ga College and State. While there is an active ROTC program there, you dont have to participate, and the admission stats are more in line with yours. These schools are not in huge metropolises (except for Berry in Rome- its a decent sized city), but are not far from Atlanta. With your stats and financial constraints, you are going to have to be way more reasonable with your goals, so think short term. You can always transfer later. Unfortunately you are not in a position to have a long list of “gotta have’s” for college .</p>

<p>** Use cc’s “super match” – <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search[/url]”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search&lt;/a&gt; plug in your stats, your criteria, etc and see what shows up. And spend less time loking for colleges and more time studying for the SATs/ACT</p>

<p>see if this link works <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search[/url]”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;