<p>by emulating Penn and increasing the number of students they accept ED. I think that the policy will prove to be beneficial in the long run, but I’d love to hear some counter arguments.</p>
<p>I predicted a little while ago that they would do this. Duke has gotten some very poor publicity about yield rates. Coupled with a decrease in applicants ED, which many alumni felt correlated with selectivity, it seemed like a common sense move to make this year. They upped their yield rates by accepting more students ED, and they will look more selective by having a lower yield rate RD. Additionally, students seeing the higher acceptances of kids ED may be encouraged to apply early next year. This would increase their ED applicants and keep many of the alumni happy. I could, however, see a big drop in the acceptances ED next year, back to around the 600 mark. Duke is not one to stand on its laurels and always wants to make themselves better. Some of the best applicants are in the RD pool, and I could see Duke wanting to give more of these students a shot. You never know though!</p>
<p>I’m confident that ED applications will skyrocket once word gets out that Duke is filling 48% of its class using ED. I wouldn’t be surprised if ED applications increased by 50% in the next couple of years (after all, we did have a 23% increase in the number of applications last year).</p>
<p>Part of what you need for the discussion is what was the quality of this ED class. Only admissions is privy to that. Looking at the stats of some of the people that got defered there were some outstanding applicants that didn’t get in. How does that match up to trying to get the best out of RD where only 1 of 3 accept the offer I don’t know.</p>
<p>Very true. I don’t think duke nessicarily has a quota. Maybe they have some intentions regarding numbers, but they are probably flexible. If the class is exceptional like this class looks to be, then they are able to adapt. If the class isn’t up to par, they may want to take a look at the regular decision class. I am honestly shocked by the quality of applicants that were not offered admission. It’s possible that there was just a spoke in the quality of applicants this year. This trend could continue or not, only duke will know</p>
<p>Interesting that everyone on this thread just got admitted :)</p>
<p>[Duke</a> Accepts 753 Early Decision Applicants | Duke Today](<a href=“http://today.duke.edu/2012/12/earlydecision12]Duke”>Duke Accepts 753 Early Decision Applicants | Duke Today)</p>
<p>So there are 962 spots left, and 29,000 regular decision applicants. So if Duke has about a 42% yield, then does that make the RD acceptance rate something like 7%? If I did that calculation right (remember, I’m the parent and am not expected to make accurate calculations!), a number like that would certainly be a deterrent for applying RD. </p>
<p>Is Duke’s yield on the low side because if kids get into Duke and and Ivy, they would tend to choose the Ivy? Is Duke thought of like an “Ivy safety” like the whole Tufts Syndrome thing? Ironically, of all the kids in our high school who were admitted to Duke AND any of the 8 Ivies, the Duke admits had the highest average GPAs AND the highest average SAT’s (over 2300!). Higher than those of kids admitted to Harvard, Princeton, Yale… Only Stanford and MIT admits had higher stats. </p>
<p>By the way, we (I speak for my son) are 5 of those 753 highly qualified kids!</p>
<p>To say that Duke’s yield is low because applicants treat it as an ‘ivy safety’ is incorrect. Most students would probably choose Duke over Penn, Cornell and Dartmouth (at least where I’m from) and the stats back this up. However, because Duke does not indulge in yield protection (the same can’t be said for many of its peers) it invariably gets decimated by Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton and MIT in cross admit battles (like every other school in the country). The difference between Duke and some of its elite peers (including the ivies) is that Duke will not make an admissions decision based on the applicant’s likelihood of attending. Chicago, one of the world’s truly great research universities, was famous for having an abysmally low yield because it only admitted the best students and consequently lost most of them to Harvard. Duke is doing the same thing (which is very admirable) but is also playing the game by using ED to its advantage. Unfortunately, several schools nowadays have abandoned this approach (Chicago itself has adopted a completely different admissions strategy). This may be good for their numbers in the short run, but it will prove to have long term consequences.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I chose to apply early to Duke because I loved its atmosphere when I visited. Putting modesty aside, I think that I would have had a reasonable shot of being admitted to the best Ivies (think HYP) had I chosen do so (this is what my guidance counsellor told me, and my school has a reputation of being a feeder to the ivies). However, Duke was just a better fit than Princeton (which I absolutely adored on my visit there) and I really think that it is poised to become a truly great global university.</p>
<p>And the 29,000 applicants number is from last year, my3gr8boyz. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it represents this years applicants or around that.</p>
<p>It was only a theory/question. I wasn’t trying to imply that kids ACTUALLY view it as an Ivy safety, I was just posting some musings. My son applied ED for the same reasons you mentioned, Kenyan. I think he could have gotten into Penn and Cornell for engineering (we live 15 min from Princeton and yet he has never seen the campus. Not the vibe for him), but Duke had “the whole package”. Our school’s admit stats show that Duke takes its admissions seriously. Can you define “yield protection” for me? That is a new term to me… does that have to do with what you said about only admitting students that are perceived as more likely to attend?</p>
<p>PS I came back to this thread because I was on Naviance today for my high school junior, and relevant CC posts show up in the lower right hand corner. I saw my username in a post! Kinda cool!</p>
<p>Yield protection is pretty much as you put it, admitting kids who are most likely to attend and wait listing or rejecting kids who are less likely to attend the school and matriculate elsewhere. Throughout CC, Tufts (commonly heard as Tufts Syndrome) and WashU are two schools that have been getting much heat for their massive wait list practice due to student’s turning them down for Ivys or schools of similar caliber.</p>
<p>I’m not actually sure if Duke practices this but I presume that the adcoms have no reason to. The University is not only of similar academic caliber to many of the Ivys + Stanford and MIT but is differentiated through it’s competitive sports programs and lively school spirit.</p>
<p>I was a bit surprised that 735 ED applicants were accepted, representing 44% of the targeted class size of 1720 for the Class of 2017. Last year, there were 647 acceptances, or about 38% of the class. However, if you told Guttentag (the Dean of Admissions) that Duke is trying to emulate Penn, that would give him a bit of a chuckle. I’ve heard him specifically say in the past Duke does NOT want to be like Penn, filling 50% or more of its class with ED applicants as they want to still have a large number of spots for regular decision applicants. </p>
<p>Although 44% is getting closer, based on what Guttentag has said (unless his strategy has changed), I can’t imagine Duke going all the way to Penn’s level. Ironically, Guttentag worked in the admissions office at Penn and was responsible for admitting the CURRENT Penn undergraduate admissions dean to the undergraduate school at Penn. He has some funny things to say about that fact.</p>
<p>Here are some more statistics about ED interviews in case you’re curious:
Applicants: 2,540
Contacted for interviews: >1,900
Successfully interviewed: 1,768 (or 70% of all ED applicants)</p>
<p>Duke’s yield is a bit lower than the mid-tier Ivy League schools, but is still higher than schools like Vanderbilt, UChicago, CalTech, and Northwestern. It’s not that anomalous and yield is only so important as it’s also easily manipulated. But I think the main reason Duke’s yield is in the low 40s is the fact the LARGEST overlap of applicants to Duke are to Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and Princeton. No school in the country wins most of the battles with those four. If Duke’s largest overlaps were Northwestern, Cornell, Penn, etc. then you’d see the yield go up a bit, I’d imagine.</p>
<p>Lastly, talking about yield protection, Duke does NOT consider likelihood to attend in its admissions decisions like some schools (e.g. WashU) do. Although applying ED gives you a boost, so I guess that’s somewhat analogous. Duke does not keep track of visits, phone calls, etc. though. WashU does, and is more likely to accept an RD applicant that they believe will attend.</p>
<p>Chicago definitely does it as well. Overcompensating for their past perhaps.</p>
<p>I think Duke admitted over 100 more ED students this year (including my daughter, yea!!!) to encourage more ED applicants next year after a small decrease in the total ED pool this year. Duke is very forthright that ED applicants receiving an advantage, and in light of the bloodshed on the H and Y SCEA boards (not to mention the Georgetown board) even more top applicants may choose Duke ED next year as a more realistic alternative than those other schools.</p>
<p>In any event, I am glad Duke does not yield protect as Duke can win some (although not the majority) of the battles with Y, P, and MIT and possesses some things that are hard to match at most other top schools like basketball and climate. </p>
<p>Last year Duke maintained a very respectable 42% yield and, per the Chronicle, Duke’s yield rate has fluctuated between 41 and 45% for the last 20 years,. I suspect this year, Duke’s yield will be on the high end. </p>
<p>[Admissions</a> yield drops two points | The Chronicle](<a href=“http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/admissions-yield-drops-two-points]Admissions”>http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/admissions-yield-drops-two-points)</p>
<p>I think that Duke should aspire towards a 50-55% yield in the not so distant future. Also, that was a nice little plug for your alma mater georgetown which is not nearly as selective as Duke (just some light hearted banter) :p</p>
<p>Lol, not feeling that great about the ole alma mater. Any ways, GU EA was more selective than Duke in the early go round. S with better stats than D got deferred from GU. But you are right that will change in the RD round where I suspect Duke will be around 7 to 8% and GU much higher probably by a factor of two.</p>
<p>EA is bound to be more selective than ED, but either way, my comment wasn’t meant to be malicious at all. Georgetown is a great school, and SFS in particular is absolutely incredible.</p>
<p>Kenyanpride,</p>
<p>No worries I do not think your commens were even remotely malicious. Agree EA is usually more difficult than ED, but also note that GU’s EA rate is the lowest in the country, even more than SCEA at Yale and Harvard. In any event, overall I am very happy as D is at Duke (now have to convince her to apply for FOCUS) and S should do fine (fingers crossed), although there never is any end to surprises in the college admissions process. </p>
<p>Swithcing gears,. any idea what Duke’s RD rate will be? Do you agree about 7 - 8%.</p>
<p>If I had to guess, I’d say in the single digits – but just barely. If you take Dean Guttentag at his word, Duke has about 950 slots left to “sell” for RD. Backfitting into Duke’s RD yield from the past couple of years, it looks like they admit about three candidates RD for every one that attends. (See note below.) So, I’d guess they will extend between 2750 and 2800 offers of admission in the spring. If you think total applications will be the same as or a bit more than last year, that would put about 30,000 people (including ED deferreds) in the RD round. Your resulting percentage is between 9 and 10 percent. </p>
<p>NOTE: For the record, I’m not sure why anybody – especially alumni – care all that much about yield as an indicator of <em>quality.</em> Of all the stupid US News metrics, it’s the dumbest, not least because it’s so easy to game. And, yes, that means we’re looking at YOU, WashU.</p>
<p>I’m an RD applicant, so I don’t like this…</p>