My first reaction was to the comment that he has lost interest in the subject area. That is a classic symptom of depression.
I think everyone is having a hard time with COVID, first of all. What kinds of changes was he dealing with due to the virus? Were his classes switched to online? Was it an in-person master’s to begin with? Was he living there? Has he just started or had he done a year? (You don’t need to answer…)
Second, if he has had a history of depression or anxiety, those mental health issues could affect how interested or motivated he feels.
So if he takes a break and gets treatment, whether the right meds or therapy or both (ideally) is it possible he might return? Or is a change in path likely?
And how much of a factor is the current COVID dystopia?
I don’t think any decisions are possible right now. When you aren’t motivated and can’t do the work, the best course is to leave, of course, and parents can only support that.
However, the future seems pretty uncertain for many reasons and it is always possible he might return. Or…maybe this will result in positive changes over time.
One positive may be getting counseling- and I hope he finds the right person (we use the Psychology Today therapist finder and then search reviews…)
Just adding myself as a voluntary departure. No regrets. I got what I wanted from the program. Then life took over. Like others, fate took me to another field which I loved.
But I want to note this. In all the decades since, for all the times I’ve mentioned grad school, not a single soul has ever asked, “Did you finish?”
I put the period of academic work on my resume, not that a degree resulted. It related to my undergrad studies, not where I was headed.
One of my dad’s graduate students never finished his master’s degree. Now he is Chairman of the Board of one of the largest structural engineering firms in Texas.
My S left a science PhD program after 2 years (got the equivalent of a masters which is not really worth much in his area). He got tired of making no money and working long hours and the PI he hoped to work with went to another school.
PhD programs are grinds. At the time, I was a little disappointed because, as blossom says, we fetishize graduate degrees. But I think the politics of the program plus the workload is a recipe for burnout.
A dear friend was an engineer and after seven years in the field, got into a big-name MBA program. After a year, he quit – absolutely hated it. Didn’t go back to engineering.
Instead used the second year’s tuition $ to support himself while he took some Microsoft and technical writing courses online at his own pace. Has published over a dozen books on programming since then. Loves what he does, and the engineering and business skills have helped him be an effective writer and entrepreneur.
OP, your S may be doing ok emotionally, but a counselor could also help in clarifying what path he now wants to pursue and act as a sounding board.
Wow, that article in @surfcity#23 post is some grim reality. Should be read by all grad school professors. I never understand why grad school is so very intense - are most programs that way? Why does a deeper dive into a subject have to be so ultra consuming???
Everyone, give your grad students or those that chose not to continue in a grad program all the human support they need.
I left Harvard Business School and lived to tell about it. No regrets and no harm to my career. I agree with @alh, the time was well spent and enriching, but the degree was not necessary to achieve my goals. I applied to the program (in my 30’s) more as an escape from a current situation than for the MBA. Once in the program, I realized it wasn’t for me, and I left prior to graduation to go do what I wanted to do at the time. It’s not on my resume, and I never mention it because it’s irrelevant.
My H left his PhD program 4 years into a seven year plan. He had only research and dissertation left, but he didn’t like research. Plus I was graduating from dental school and we were beginning to plan a life together. He left with a masters plus.
From there he lucked into a one year job as a physics adjunct at our undergrad. It was a “you know us, we know you, and can you start in 10 days”. The next year there was an opening at a CC 30 minutes away and he was hired, been there ever since. He could have finished his degree at a directional by going 3 summers and once a month, but had no interest. I had to give up the dream because I wanted it more than him. He’s now in the top 5 of highest paid professors at the CC.
I like to say he dropped out to marry me…even though there is some truth to that. He was just done with academia, and wanted to teach.
I started a PhD program while working, and went on a leave that didn’t end. I ended up with an MA, and stayed in my same job. Sometimes I regret not having the PhD, because of the elitism where I work, but I know that I made the right decision for me.
I am not sure if you have more than one son. If not, then I remember where your son went to college, and it seems every graduate from there has the intention of going on for an MD, JD, or PhD. But of course, that’s not the reality. I hope he has friends who are not laser-focused and are still exploring. Maybe that will reduce any pressure he is putting on himself to choose his life’s work right now.
I took what I anticipated was a leave of absence from my PhD program to earn some money. I ended up getting a job that led to a couple of others and fairly quickly was earning more than the significantly older Professor I was working with in grad school. That was an eye-opening wake up call. Never went back and have no regrets about it.
I don’t see any posters here who took a leave and the returned, but I know a few people personally who did that. Also, depression/anxiety is not cited as the reason for leaving, by any of the posters. So I would not jump to conclusions about future plans as yet.
Mental health challenges cause a loss of interest and may also interfere with any alternative path.
A 20 something young man I know left academia with depression, traveled around for a year, got help and then returned.
As I mentioned, we have used the Psychology Today online site for finding a therapist, and also have used the list from our insurance companies, which are often out of date unfortunately.
It is tough to find someone when you are depressed. It is tough to do anything proactive. With one of my kids I made the first contact, explaining the depths of the depression. With another one of my kids I finally got permission to research and made it easy for her by giving her three names. I may have contacted them as well to see if they were available. I forget. I used Psych. Today. You can message therapists directly on the site.
I got kicked out of graduate school! I was in a PhD program in biochemical oceanography and my prof/sponsor decided I didn’t have the hands-on mechanical skills needed in that high tech lab (and he didn’t want to teach me). A chemistry professor who thought I was great offered me a spot in his lab, but I decided to take some time away and earn some money. The university was located in a resort town full of mega-millionaires and I was tired of riding my bicycle to school and the grocery store. The day I got kicked out I went to the local student village’s corner store and bought one of those mega-sized beers even though I hated beer. I was sad and scared and tried to drink it but ended up dumping it and just going home.
I found a job at a local medical device company as a technician, and, well, the rest is history. It took me a while to get over it, but now I tell the story happily, without shame or regret. I think that life does have a way of working out as long as you listen to your heart and stay true to yourself. Just keep getting out of bed each morning and be the best “you” that you can be! (credits to the Army for that one, but it’s true!!!).
KnearSeattle, hi, long time since we last spoke! I only have one son so you do indeed know where he went to college. I think that many of his college friends have gone on to pursue advanced degrees and he may have been influenced by that initially, but he had a genuine love of the science field he chose. After undergrad he spent two years in the Peace Corps in Africa teaching science in high school in another language. I think that experience was very tough but also immediate and exciting. When he returned he an idea of his dream job and he would need advanced degree to do it. Two things then happened, he got an internship in the very place he dreamed of working, and discovered it was very different than he had imagined and not in a good way, and the research he was doing involved studying mind numbing minutiae at a computer for hours and days on end. I think it’s very valuable that he’s seen the reality.
Thanks for sharing your own experience and I hope your progeny is doing well!
compmom, thank you for your insights. It remains to be seen how things will go from here, and there is possibility that he’ll need more help rebounding than just leaving the program. I guess he must cross one bridge at a time.
I think he needs to take care of being an anxious and depressed mess first. Grad school isn’t for everyone. My SIL was going to get a PhD in English with her dissertation topic something to do with Victorian novels. She got more interested in literature outside the western cannon and got no support from her department. She ended up doing arts administration for years, then had children and has since been involved in local politics and her kids schools. She sings in a well-known choir and writes all their liner notes and I think even got some recognition for it.
My first boyfriend went to grad school in Chemistry, had a falling out with his mentor took some time off working as a technician and ended up in med school. He’s a doctor now.
“got an internship in the very place he dreamed of working, and discovered it was very different than he had imagined and not in a good way” - I have often said it’s very helpful to have internships to learn what you like… but more importantly possibly learn what you DON’T like.
I am also say something that may be controversial on CC.
So many of these/our kids have been used to a never ending cycle of achievements, learning, successes, accolades, striving for more, etc.
That is exhausting! But I think some young adults know nothing but striving for more/higher and having their brains occupied 99% of the time.
I think we as parents, as family members, as society need to not only allow but ENCOURAGE high acheivers or perpetual students to get off that train.
You can keep learning everyday in life. But it does not have to be in the structure of a program or class.
D1 is seriously dating a guy who did complete his doctorate in a mathematics field. OMG, what a haul. That last six months or so was a tough time. He was very overwhelmed. It consumed him and sucked the life out of him. At one point he put the relationship on hold for a bit - he had to let go of something. Post doc life is much more pleasant!
This was a long time ago, but I left graduate school in the mid 80s. I was newly married and my spouse had just finished his graduate program, and now it was “my turn.” I started, but quickly realized that with both of working in the same field it was going to be extremely difficult for us both to find jobs in the same location. So I made the decision to leave after a semester.
I ended up having a career in a totally different field and I love what I do.
Good luck to your son. My daughter could not find a therapist she liked and quit going and just floundered for ages. She finally has one she likes that meets with her on line and she loves that. It is starting to finally make a difference. I know people who have left their graduate degrees and have done very well! The PhD world is not for everyone! I know I would have hated it! Masters was as far as I wanted to go!
He may find a whole new path. It is hard and I think that the student leaving worry more about how others will think of them than they should. My son’s gf is considering a PA program instead of Med School because she wants a family and more of a life than med school, internship and residency. The only reason she is still trying for med school is that she is worried about how upset and disappointed her parents will be. To me that is sad! Just keep building your son up and he will be fine.
