Your son should ask about being awarded a Master’s degree if he has proceeded far enough in the studies. Generally doing the course work over the first 2 years should quailify and there need not be a master’s thesis. He should definitely ask about it.
My D halted her Dr program in Maths and was awarded a Masters. Happily preparing for new career with computers.
My Husband also stopped his doctoral program, got his master’s and pursued a career in another field.
good luck.
@ChoatieMom I have to comment here, because your life is my recurring dream!! How weird is that? I got my top 3 MBA 40 years ago and I still occasionally have a dream that I am enrolled in the HARVARD MBA program (not my alma mater)and I am dropping out, because of course in my dream I can’t even find the classroom and have failed all courses and tests. I feel bad about wasting a full year’s tuition. Sometimes in my dream I say to myself, “I already have an MBA, why am I trying to get another one?” That dream still shows up and I haven’t worked in 13 years!
Please don’t perpetuate the idea that a PhD program will award a MS as a consolation prize for those who don’t complete their doctoral programs. If you haven’t completed the research and written a thesis and defended it, most universities won’t hand you a MS. Believe me, I tried.
@Python20 , was your daughter’s university in the US? Just curious because my friend in the U.K. has a son studying “maths” , which isn’t a usual undergrad or grad degree program in the US.
@bopambo, I was admitted to the best PhD program in the world in a STEM field.
I had worked very hard on my undergraduate thesis. I took on a problem that others had started but not finished and worked intensely (while playing a minor varsity sport and doing well in my classes). Apparently, I did very well on this. So far so good. My work on this helped me get great offers from the five best graduate programs in the country (and I think the world, but who knows).
But I was just exhausted and didn’t feel like starting grad school. I didn’t realize I could defer. So I went and had a lackluster year. Did fine but didn’t really have the energy. I also felt the department’s focus was more theoretical and my interest was in having an effect on the world. So, I dropped out at the end of the year and took a job.
The good news @bopambo is that I reapplied while on the job to the department with my advisor’s collaborator. All the schools had offered me full rides with no teaching or research obligations the first time. The second time around, they just gave me the same offer.)
In the second grad school, they gave me tremendous freedom to take courses from other departments and professional schools. I realized that I really wasn’t interested in working in the field in which I was getting my PhD, but did begin work in a new, interdisciplinary field as a grad student in which I have worked since then.
What to do? Drop out and start again? I decided that the best thing I could do was get my PhD in this STEM field from a prestigious university, and that this would help me later. People would say, “He must be smart if he got a PhD in a hard subject from a prestigious school.” But, it is difficult to generate the energy to write a doctoral thesis in a subject you are not passionate about.
I did go see a therapist and got one of the early proponents of cognitive behavioral therapy to work with me, which was a powerful experience. I gritted my teeth and pushed through. It was hard. Took me 4.5 years total to get my PhD (1 at the first school. 3.5 at the second). I think without the confusion about my interests I might have done it in six months or a year less.
The good news is that it worked out well. I got a post-doc to work in a new field at a prestigious business school and used that to begin research in the new inter-disciplinary field. I then worked there as a junior professor and wrote my first book. After a few years, I decided to leave academia temporarily (and then permanently) but still have a minor appointment at the same university. I have had a fulfilling career running a consulting firm that I co-founded and helping people start other companies – sufficiently fulfilling that I do not have any desire to retire – and have done well enough financially. I do pro bono projects that feel meaningful: I helped end a civil war as a result of one project and created another that apparently was responsible for the passage of at least 13 bills in Congress (could be more because a major foundation has been funding an effort to institutionalize what I started}…
@Python20’s advice is good. I didn’t ask for a masters degree (or what it would take to get one). I did get it when I went back for my PhD but didn’t get any degrees from the first grad school. I would suggest to your son that he pay attention to the optics – what is the story he is going to tell folks when he applies for jobs or grad school. As long as he has a good spin, then he just needs to find something he loves to do and is good at (that the world also values). If grad school would help him get there, he can reapply. If not, no need to finish. But I would say it would a better story if he got a masters and then left.
Kids who can call a halt to it - or at least reconsider- or take that leave to catch their breath-
may be an important step ahead of those who continue to contort themselves.
I do think you need to carefully look at what’s a systemic depression versus a situation they feel is a misfit, where they feel trapped in their goals (and everyone else’s.) We can be some support in their re-think.
DH took the leave, had some adventures that make great family tales, got an allied (and not difficult) Masters, and went back to his PhD program.
He was working on something obscure in the US, at the time. The break paid off.
Just want to jump in one more time and mention that I read that 30% of the country is depressed during COVID. I find it strange that this hasn’t been mentioned.
Lots of students at all levels are taking a break.
I understand there may be other issues going on for the OP’s son but we are living in a dystopia right now…
@compmom, there is also despair and anxiety about the election among folks our age, although I don’t know if that extends to college or grad student populations.
@shawbridge, anxiety and despair about the political situation certainly affects young people as well as old. But in referring to COVID I was thinking of the enforced remote learning and social isolation that is affecting so many who are in school, in terms of the actual day to day details of life. But yes, the election and BLM are both on the minds of the college and grad students I know.
(The grad student in my family is in touch with friends in Europe and plotting a marriage pending election results!)
^That may not be as easy as they think. Lots of documentation required that proves the relationship is legitimate, at least in the UK.
The masters degree is not a consolation prize and is not handed out. She was awarded the master’s degree in recognition of her completing the requirements for the masters degree. Not all masters degree require writing and defending a thesis. Which is why they should ask and see if it is possible.
The degree was awarded from a top US university in theoretical mathematics.
Dropping out is a legitimate decision. Some students are asked to leave which is even more awkward for student and faculty.
The issue might be here how the decision to leave will be communicated to the department - will the student just disappear (ghosting definitely happens) or will this occur after a discussion with faculty that could then lead to good letters of recommendation and career advice being given? Should the student ask for a leave of absence with the possibility of finishing up later?
(BTW even students who are asked to leave because they haven’t satisfied some expectations by some date can certainly get good jobs. )
Finally I wanted to add that I have seen “graduate studies in x” at the “department of Y” from 20xx to 20xy listed on many resumes so even if a degree is not obtained this activity still ends up on the resume.
Thanks, I’ve benefited a lot from all your responses. After the emotional upheaval of making the decision to quit, my son has decided to ask his academic and research advisors if there is a way to leave with an MS that doesn’t require writing a thesis. If the answer is yes, he’ll go for that, if no, then he’ll withdraw.
I do think the state of the country, has added to his unhappiness, but that’s the cherry on top of a three scoops of discontent. I appreciate the concern, advice, and all the great stories.
@bopambo hope that the MS is possible and that the situation is resolved, and that your son starts feeling better (not that any of us are feeling great right now).
@Hoggirl the relationship would be easy to prove as legitimate, since it has been going on long distance for some time. Sorry for the tangent.
I’m dropping in to tell you the outcome of my son’s dilemma because you were all so helpful, and perhaps knowing how it was resolved may be useful for others. My son spoke to his advisors and said he was ready to withdraw from his program, then he asked if he had enough coursework and research to leave with a masters degree without having to do a thesis. Happily, they said yes! They asked him to write one more technical report for the research he had completed, which he did remotely this fall. All the paperwork has been completed and they will send the diploma in the mail. It’s the best outcome we could have hoped for! Now he just has to figure out what’s next. Happy New Year to all!!
What wonderful news!! I am glad you came back to update us! Congrats to all of you for making it through!
Great news! Thanks for the update.