Did your child choose W&M over UVA?

Colleges & Universities College of William and Mary
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If so can you share why? Was it close?

I am familiar with the vibe at W&M. We visited and my daughter loved it.

We also walked around UVA but didn’t do an official tour because my daughter was more interested in smaller schools at that point. But, she fell in love with the “grounds” and the area in general. I was pretty surprised at how wide eyed and excited she was when walking around UVA. I hadn’t seen her react in such a positive way during any college visits so far so I want to look into UVA a little deeper before encouraging her to truly consider it.

She is a very high achieving student (4.0 uw GPA, high rigor, 1580 SAT, dancer, musician, probably a STEM focused major). She is social but on the more quiet side and hasn’t shown interest in drinking or partying so far. She is not particularly quirky, but also not obsessed with image and fashion. Just a down to earth, bright, social-introvert. She does express feeling intimidated by the “popular” kids at her school so I worry UVA may attract too may of the “popular” type kids.

We have heard UVA is much more competitive once there for things like clubs and even majors that aren’t usually competitive, like Neuroscience.

Since a lot of you in this group probably considered both schools, I thought I’d ask here. If I ask in the UVA group, I am sure it will be heavily biased in favor of UVA.

Is the stereotype of UVA leaning toward an elitist vibe true? Too much of a party school/drinking culture? Too competitive even for fun, social clubs? Too big to feel the intimate connections like at W&M?

Any other thoughts or insights?

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I have a Hokie ‘24, Hoo ‘27, and my youngest will be at W&M for class of ‘30. The reasons you mentioned are what steered him towards W&M over UVA and he got into both and would’ve done great academically at both. The fit was what won out and he felt at home and excited for W&M. If your daughter feels that at UVA, that could be the school for her. But your concerns about club competitiveness and social scene are warranted. My Hoo is not a drinker and is active in her (selective admission) clubs. She has plenty to do socially (plus chem engineering major) without Greek Life. She has a great friend group and gets along easily with anyone but isn’t as introverted as my youngest.

The other selling point for W&M is the very robust assistance in finding internships, research for undergrads, and job placement. That clinched it when comparing to VT and UVA.

Feel free to message any other questions.

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Mine applied to W&M but not UVA. So you will have some of that.

Someone I work with in Virginia Beach got into the two and Christopher Newport and chose CNU because the dad told me it’s less woke (which matters to them). The point being, lots of kids choose less known or lower ranked than higher. Both mine did.

So if you are looking to justify W&M over UVA, I don’t think you need to. Kids will do that every day - and frankly they choose much lower ranked schools over these as well.

If it’s right for her, it’s right for her. My daughter liked the openness of the W&M campus and the cute touristy part. UVA, I like a lot but it did nothing for her. So she didn’t apply.

I don’t think a school size matters for intimate connections. At the smallest and largest, you have partiers and non partiers. Smaller not W&M size) might make it harder to find connections if you don’t fit in. UVA obviously will have more a sports culture, too, being in the ACC. Elitist, I wouldn’t think so although you can be assured many OOS full pay families go to both - even though they both give aid to OOS with UVA meeting full need. So you likely do have some wealth aspect involved with UVA $20k more or so.

While both have non direct admit b schools, I think more at UVA might seek Wall Street type jobs - so in that sense those kids (not all) might be more competitive.

Good luck.

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Thank you! Did it take you daughter at UVA a while to find her people or was it an easy transition?

Also, how does she like the chemistry department there? That is one of the majors my daughter is considering.

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My daughter is not particularly worried about rankings and is really looking for the best fit.

She wants to go somewhere that will challenge her academically, where she will be surrounded by other kids that are actually interested in learning (unlike 2/3 of the kids at her HS), but also a place that allows plenty of time to get involved with clubs and other activities.

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She made friends quickly and lucked out with her suitemates. They will have been living together all 4 years next year. Her clubs are a huge time commitment and she’s balanced them well with coursework.

She’s in chemical engineering which is different than the chemistry dept but has been positive about almost all of her professors and classes. First year engineering classes have some annoyances but that’s true universally.

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If your daughter had that reaction to UVA, that might be her school. You can’t go wrong with either school. Both are great schools. You will hear many stereotypes of students from both schools. I believe that students will find their people regardless! At this point, maybe you can look at the Neuroscience program at both schools Good luck to your D!

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That will be most any school. You will have people at both who want to find the easiest, highest rated professors and have some cupcake classes. And you will have some that are serious, want extra rigor and more - and I imagine if she’s a STEM kid, they’ll both have that.

In other words, I think both will have kids like she wants and both will have kids like in HS. Most kids, sadly put grade above learning - her HS experience isn’t abnormal.

But what you are describing can be had most anywhere. It seems she prefers W&M til she took a look at UVA - and I think that’s a great choice.

Has she looked at the Chem offerings at each - to ensure both are robust enough?

In the end, kids can find the right school - and yet first year, have a bad roomie or prof or food issues that sort of impacts that expectation - or can find a home run situation and bffs for life. One never knows.

If she had that positive a reaction to UVA that she didn’t anywhere else, then I think she would be smart to choose UVA.

Good luck to your student.

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My S24 after visiting also only applied to W&M and not UVA, but ended up somewhere else (WashU).

Rather than phrase the following point negatively about UVA, I would phrase it positively about W&M . . . it sounds to me like W&M would be a GREAT fit for her. I also think it is true she could likely find her people at UVA, carve out an academic experience she would value, and so on. But unless there was some other compelling reason to make that choice, why not just choose the place that seems like the best fit to begin with?

So it appears to me the question is whether liking the grounds at UVA is a compelling reason? On the one hand, I do think enjoying your built environment can contribute meaningfully to your college experience. On the other, I also think a lot of the initial effect wears off after time.

OK, so if it was me, I wouldn’t discourage her from applying to both. Assuming she did get into both, though, and they were on her final short list, I would try to make it possible for her to revisit both as an admitted student. I think that can sometimes really help kids focus on the things that actually matter to them.

And if at the end of that process she was still most excited by UVA . . . OK!

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Thank you for this reasonable take. WashU is also on her list! But it is a super reach for anyone, of course.

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Is the student not a Senior making a final decision ?

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+1 on everything that @NiceUnparticularMan and everyone else said up above.

Just wanted to contribute, if it’s helpful, that I was in the situation of deciding between W&M and UVA back in the day. I had a very hard time deciding between the two, and, in fact, didn’t mail my commitment letter (to W&M) back to the school until the absolute last minute. And then, once there, it took most of freshman year before I felt that I had made the right call. Both schools are great, and I think most students would be able to find “their people” at either one. But I do think there’s a difference in vibes between the two, and I do think if thinking about, say, the random people on your daughter’s freshman hall, you can imagine that there might be more of her people at W&M than at UVA. (Especially as a 1580/4.0 is going to make her a strong contender for Monroe at W&M, which would boost that freshman hall vibe even more.)

Both schools are great in their own ways, but I got some advice at the time (back when I was trying to decide) from a law professor I knew who had gone to W&M for undergrad and then went on to get a PhD from UVA (separate from his JD!), and I think that advice is as relevant today as it was then — the academic reputation of UVA and other large public universities is buoyed substantially by their graduate programs, and most of that graduate focus is actually to the detriment of the undergraduate population. On the other hand, a school that focuses on undergrad teaching (like W&M) is going to have a profound impact on the student’s overall undergrad experience in a way that a larger university won’t be able to match. Yes, there are resources available at big universities, but they are often inaccessible to undergrads. And other dynamics are often compromised at big schools, like it being harder to connect with amazing professors, or it being harder to navigate academic advising.

(My oldest (D22) is at Berkeley, and twins (D25/S25) are at W&M now, so I’ve seen this. In fact, when the twins were looking for schools last year, they didn’t even apply to Berkeley, despite having stronger academic records than D22, because of wanting more of a connection to their professors and undergrad experience than they saw D22 having. They have loved W&M, and have already had more and better connections with undergrad professors in one year than D22 has had in four.) Granted, UVA isn’t as big or as bureaucratic as Berkeley, so I don’t mean to say students there are going to have the same undergrad experience. I’m sure the parents of UVA students have stories of their kids connecting meaningfully with their professors, getting good advising, and so on.

Both UVA and W&M are great schools, and I’m sure your daughter will thrive at either one. As she’s thinking about the two this fall … if you’re in-state, presumably she has friends from her high school at both of the schools; maybe she can visit and stay over for a weekend at each?

(Also, it looks like they haven’t opened yet, but W&M does have optional summer interviews (in person and virtual) with rising seniors. It’s a good way to both make a connection and also demonstrate interest in the school.)

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She is a Junior trying to narrow down her list to apply to in the fall

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Thank you so much for this detailed reply! Your insight is really helpful and confirms what I feel in my gut about a school like W&M that makes undergrads their priority vs a larger school with a lot of graduate students. This is definitely what she is looking for but I think she just got swept up in the beauty of UVA. She is a sucker for red brick and hidden courtyards :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:. Luckily we have a few other schools with those elements on the list and W&M has an equally special charm to its campus.

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We are in state and I have had two at W&M. Both chose W&M over UVA for a variety of reasons. My older child graduated and landed well in a job because of his experience at W&M. Second one will graduate next year and is on a similar path. Please feel free to reach out to me in a private message if I can help further. Best of luck to you all on the journey!

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I’m sure the decision has been made….but just in case someone is reading this thread because they have a similar decision to make, my daughter (who graduated exactly a year ago to the day) LOVED her experienced at W&M and already looks back with nostalgia. She didn’t apply to UVA but really didn’t like the feeling of it from campus visits that she took later. I would have never described my daughter’s personality as quirky…she’s actually pretty mainstream, though she did enter college a bit on the reserved/shy side and left it confidently, with her latent extroversion evident. She had amazing professors, mentors, friends, involvements (despite the fact that she couldn’t find her place in the initial club selection freshman fall) and graduated Phi Beta Kappa. She is now in a challenging professional graduate program but recently said to me wistfully “I miss my classes at W&M…I got to study SO MANY different interesting things!” I had often feared she was too pragmatic and career-focused and didn’t appreciate enough the opportunity she had for wide-ranging exploration …but in the end, it seems she did, and made the most of it. I can’t imagine a school or campus that would have fit her any better. I am sure UVA has fantastic opportunities too, but I think, sometimes, in a very large school it may be harder to feel comfortable exploring classes outside of the bubble of your major (or related subjects) and in this way, a smaller school can be beneficial. To my mind, for a lot of students, the medium size of William & Mary (coupled with a large and beautiful campus) is a true sweet spot. It’s big enough that there are always new people to meet but small enough that you bump into friends scattered across campus every day and never have to feel lost in a crowd unless you want to be.

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Choice of major, courses within the major, and courses outside the major, may have an impact on this characteristic. The majors and courses with the more academically interested students may be different at different colleges.

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What a lovely review of your daughter’s experience! Thank you. It was not posted too late because my daughter is a rising senior and still making a list of where to apply. Your post is very helpful!