@nitro11 I like your perspective. That’s exactly how we look at it as well. D and I are a team. She isnt going to make a major change without consulting me. I wouldn’t have done it without consulting my (uneducated) parents. It doesn’t take a college degree to ask questions to get a child thinking or to make suggestions as the parent knows the child best. It isn’t about control or independence. A lot of time it’s as simple as “Why are you making that choice,” and a simple response, “Well that makes sense. Go for it.” Sometimes it needs further discussion. It’s sad if such a major decision happens under the radar.
Post #64. $280,000 for a college education???!!! Wow- top tier flagship U’s cost much less than half that, even adding an extra year. And are much better than most private colleges. The major doesn’t always matter- you trust your child is working towards a degree. However did you get the idea I would squander that kind of money? MY kid could be trusted to use college to his best advantage- take the honors classes and stretch his brain. It was not our job to be sure we got our money’s worth. It was his job to figure out his path and the classes major he wanted to achieve his goals. I am proud of him for making decisions that work best for him. So much better than needing to have us hold his hand.
Regarding drinking age laws. These are not aimed at keeping the adults in college from drinking but rather keeping the 18 year olds in HS from supplying their classmates. Beer was legal for 18 year olds in Wisconsin forever until everything became legal during the Vietnam War era of my youth. The logic was about sending men off to war at 18 etc. Then 21 became the age when the Federal government tied it to funding so states complied. Making it harder for high school students to obtain alcohol and passing it along to younger teens is useful. If not for the draft and war we would likely still have 21 as the age of legal adulthood. Voting rights to those who could be sent to war as the adults they were being treated as at 18.
Many thirty year olds are not “mature, independent” adults. Ask parents of college grads in their twenties how their kids are still maturing.
Once again, you do not own your children. You can try to keep control over their lives but they need to break away and be responsible for their own decisions. By the time you send them off to college (at any age) you have had plenty of time to instill your values. We did, and were pleasantly surprised that our abstract thinking kid could be practical. He’s also frugal- having money doesn’t mean needing to spend it without getting good value and meeting needs but not all wants or the expensive stuff.
“Also starting with a light load is NOT a good idea unless the student is only a fair/average college student who has no plans past a so-so degree.”
@wis75 I don’t agree with this statement. My son is only taking 12 units. I want him to ease into the new world of college. You don’t get into a top school and then just develop poor study habits and forgot how to manage free time.
I would be a bit heartbroken to be honest. Not because I’d be upset at the change, I’d be upset at the idea that my child felt they couldn’t, or didn’t want to tell me about such a change. It just isn’t the relationship we have with any of our kids. We actually had a bit of concern with our SD14 when she chose her school as it required her to declare her major at application and many of the core classes are the first 2 years, gen ed later, making switching difficult to do and pricey if even able to accomplish as it requires reapplying to the “new” school chosen. Luckily it has worked out and she’s never wavered even though at the time it felt a bit like a dartboard approach as in…oh that sounds good, I’ll pick that!
In general my goal as a parent is to help my kids find schools that give them the flexibility to change their mind without penalty. If my child has a passion for a field that brings in six figures, great. If it will never hit six figures no matter what they do but they love it? Great. As long as they are happy and self-sustaining, I am happy. Living at home, not willing to settle for less than their dream job? That’s not an option. But they know that and I am not remotely concerned about that becoming a reality. I have a liberal arts degree that doesn’t lead directly to any specific field and it’s worked out just fine. Work ethic and passion goes a long way in life if you ask me.
That said, our deal is for 4 years. If they make changes that require more, that is on them. Within reason. We will have had a total of 4 summer sessions with the older 2 so that they could pull it off in 4 and that did mean some extra tuition. I would of course like if their choice of major enabled them to find employment and I might be less than thrilled if I’d decided to pay for a “more” expensive school based on an early major choice than might have been selected had the child been looking at a different major. Which goes back to the earlier point, find a school that has the flexibility a child might need…at a price you can live with. If it’s outside of that price my kids have to have skin in the game and that does incentify sticking to the 4 year plan and even then there is a cap to what is “livable” price wise. It also means making sure the lines of communication are open and that your child is talking to you about what they are studying and considering. We always have known where the older two were at as they debated adding minors or concentrations and I don’t expect that to change with the next two.
I will be honest. My parents didn’t have a clue. I didn’t have to declare until end of sophomore year and did change my mind between freshman year and when I declared. While we were close, they weren’t quite as in the loop on school stuff as we are today and part of that just the changing landscape and the ability to see information. They didn’t really ask much, I didn’t really tell, it was assumed that everything was ok or I’d let them know and that was definitely true. I had a couple of “light” quarters due to dropped classes. I had a couple of “heavy” courses to make up for it. They had no clue. Granted, I was the one paying for it so it behooved me to graduate on time but had I changed my mind, dropped out, switched schools or the like, my parents would have understood and supported me no matter what. Did I walk right into a career path and dream job with my liberal arts degree? Nope. I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. But I figured out how to sustain myself financially while I did that and it is doable. Maybe not ideal, maybe not easy, but doable. We’ve got one kid doing that now and he’s poor as a church mouse (ok not really lol) but happy as a clam, living his dream and that’s all that matters and he may well end up making more than all of us if he plays it right. It’s fun to watch!
My daughter never actually switched majors, she just added additional majors. She discussed it with me each time, and I’m pretty sure she would have discussed a desire to change majors if she’d wanted to. I would be unhappy if my child changed majors without discussing it with me. It’s a major decision (ha), and I have a major financial interest in her education. I have no desire to dictate her major, but I have a lot more life experience than she does, a lot better understanding of the working world, and sometimes I think I know her better than she knows herself, so I have valuable information to contribute. The final decision is not mine - it’s her education and her life, and she needs to do what she likes and has an aptitude for - but I think it would be in everyone’s interest for me to have the opportunity to provide input, make suggestions and be a sounding board to insure that she had thought things through completely.
My D changed majors from hard science to social sciences. She did not ask permission, but she mentioned it to me. I would not have been upset if she had made the change without consulting me - it’s her life. Had it meant extra semesters/years of school, I would have expected that she discuss it with her dad & me first, because we were paying. We would not have said no, but the financial impact would have been something to work out. It definitely worked out for her. She has a fabulous job that she really enjoys.
S switched from a 6-year PharmD program to another major in the sciences. Again, he did not ask permission. He did talk to me about it, because the change involved a transfer to another school. It’s his life, and he was happy with the change. (He, like his sister, graduated in 4 years.)
I have a question: How many parents here had parents who were involved in their college lives to the extent that they would have expected to be consulted about a change in major? Mine certainly were not, nor were any of my friends’ parents.
My parents dictated my major 35 years ago.
My parents cared and asked about my academic plans but did not dictate. Same as I interact with my kids.
My friends and I all paid for our own schooling. We chose our schools, chose our majors. I had a great relationship with my parents, who were interested in things, but did not involve themselves like so many parents I know today. They never even asked about my grades (although they were proud when I made Dean’s List, a fact I shared with them).
At our time, it was possible to pay our own schooling, and could get a good job with poor grades. Things have changed.
I was adamant about changing my major after I finished senior year of High School, but my mother, brother, and freshman counselor talked me out of it. And I’m eternally grateful.
I don’t think the major I did was exactly the right fit, but it was close enough. I think the major I wanted to switch into would have been a really bad move.
The dynamic in my family was interesting. My father was really laid back and said I should do whatever I liked, but my mother was relentless. She sent a couple of my older siblings in on reconnaissance missions over the summer after high school. Maybe they did it on their own, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she was behind it. My mother was really sweet, but she was relentless on this issue. I’m really glad she was.
For my Mom, and for me, with my kids, it’s not about control. It’s about giving guidance to an eighteen year old who knows absolutely nothing about the world. Kids are all different. If you’ve got a super mature kid who you think has things under control, I say go for the hands off approach, but most high school seniors are clueless about the real world.
For the typical kid, I think it’s kind of irresponsible to leave them out there on their own. I wouldn’t be surprised if some kids change majors without telling their parents because they figure “Mom and Dad are chill. They’ll be cool with it. I’ll tell them when I get home for break.”
My kids know that they have very limited knowledge of the real world, and they defer to my wife and me. And I think that’s good. It’s great to instill confidence in your kids and give them independence, but you don’t want them taking their lumps on something as serious as what to study in college. Or at least I don’t want my kids doing that. Feel free to mix it up, if that works better for you 
I don’ t know if this is still the case, but when D was entering college, the rule at SUNY Geneseo (she didn’t go there but her friend did) was that first semester students could only take 12 credits. My D went to a not as highly ranked SUNY and she took 18. My friend whose D was at Geneseo said that the school wanted them to ease in and figured that most of the students had enough AP credits to allow for a slower start.
“You do not own your children no matter how much you spent, time and effort or financially, in raising them. They are independent adults.”
1 - If parents are paying college tuition, then said children are NOT “independent adults.” In fact, according to the IRS, they are very much dependents. Sorry, but if parents are footing any part of children’s living expenses (tuition, housing, food, etc.), then parents get a say in their children’s lives and expenses. I don’t necessarily advocate dictating exact majors, but I do think parents have a right to put parameters on the money.
2 - When someone shares in a financial burden, then it is the responsibility of a person (in this case the student) to inform those who are part of the financial equation of major spending (in this case the parents). I align this to a married couple. One spouse does not just go out and arbitrarily purchase a Ferrari without telling the other person…because for the price of tuition, I can very much afford to buy myself a Ferrari.
If you want to be treated like an adult, then act like an adult. Sometimes that means that you are not the center of the universe.
I talked to my parents about my major before I went to college. They had suggestions and pointed out reasons that majors I was considering didn’t play to my strengths. My father suggested the major I ended up with, and it proved to be a good choice. But the choice was ultimately mine. FWIW, they didn’t contribute a penny toward my college education (this was back in the day when you could put yourself through school with government loans and a couple jobs). I never changed majors, but if I had I probably would have let them know about it. Discussing majors with me before I headed off to college was pretty much the extent of my parents’ involvement in my college education, though.
My parents did not contribute to my college education as I had a scholarship, worked and took out loans. My parents made no effort to influence me one way or another re my choice of major (my grandmother on the otherhand…). However I bounced ideas off my father, and he suggested that I look into engineering, which made sense as he was an engineer and we are very similar. I majored in mech. engineering. In junior year, I decided to go to grad school in biology and almost switched out of M.E. I don’t recall if I talked with my father about this. I doubt it. I would have known what he would advise.
Our kid changed majors in the middle of his second year. He did discuss it with us, and we (primarily his mother) put some pressure on him to stick with the original plan, which had a much better defined career path than the one he ultimately took. That original plan, by the way, had completely originated with him, not us, but we were happy about it in large part because he’s not the most opportunistic, entrepreneurial guy on the planet, and we thought he would do well with a clearly marked yellow brick road to follow. We never suggested that he was forbidden to change majors; what we gave was advice (laced with guilt).
Anyway, guilt tripping him into trying to stay the course was a horrible mistake, one of the worst I’ve made as a parent He had a miserable quarter, totally the low point of college for him in every respect, emotionally, GPA, etc. He switched the next quarter, was immediately engaged, excited, and happy again, and has never looked back. At the end of college, it took him a couple of months to get a job after his graduate school plans fell through, but he has been completely self-supporting ever since, although not exactly on a path to join the 1%. His first job was a great learning experience but not a good career base. He retooled in an MA program (at his own expense) and now seems to be on a good track, although I don’t completely understand what he does. He does not have a profession that the general public would recognize – he’s essentially a social science researcher – but there’s a real career path (and real retirement plans).
Way back when, I changed majors – well, really, declared a major that differed from what I thought I was going to do when I entered college. I’m sure I told my parents about it, and just as sure I didn’t even think of asking their opinion. (They were paying for my college.) I knew the faculties and departments; they didn’t. I was also taking care of employment prospects, in ways that sometimes surprised them. (Both my original intended major and my actual major were of the sort often deemed useless and unemployable.) Like romani, I was a successful student; what reason would they have had to doubt my judgment?
My wife did something similar, not changing majors, since she had almost completed her original one, but taking on a second major that signaled a significant shift in her interests and an abandonment of the plans she had made before college. She was the fourth of four kids, she was relentlessly competent, and her parents were sort of consumed by their own divorce. Neither parent questioned her about it at all (or about putting some clothes in a knapsack after graduation and following a boy they had met once to California, without a job in hand). Things worked out fine for her.
When my kid finally admitted to me that she suddenly changed her course of study after years of working towards something different, it was more than a slap in the face of everything we helped her do just to get to this point. We have other kids, and often put her needs first because she wanted to go into a course of study that was very difficult, and we wanted to support her any way we could (she’s our oldest.) Suddenly, spontaneously, she decides that she wanted something different, and didn’t even really come to us and explain like an adult should. She was very childish about hiding it and keeping her choices under the radar. We found out later she spoke about it to just about every other stranger on the internet, yet not her own family. Yet she still expected us to be completely supportive.
That was the insult. We never felt more like just tools for her to achieve her dreams than when she changed her courses without even discussing anything with us. Not even a heads up…we just caught on one day when she was talking (in a weirdly roundabout way) about what classes she’d already signed up for. There was no way she could have been more destructive to our parent-child relationship. We feel like sponsors for her education at this point, not even like true parents. Our family is close, and it feels like this was not a one-time thing from her, but a foreshadowing of everything she will do in her life…we’ll basically just have to eavesdrop on her life to be apart of it. Yeah, I’m bitter, because it never had to be like this. We tried to shrug it off, that she can make her own choices, but she busted our asses to get there and couldn’t even come to us like an adult, and in the last few weeks since school started we barely hear from her.
We seriously have broken hearts about the whole thing. The lack of respect she has for us is staggering, and we are not in the position to just “cut her off”. We committed to doing everything we could for our kids, to give them a better life than we had, and that promise we made to them we will not back down from. So no matter how much she jerks us around, we are getting that kid to adulthood successfully. Our integrity matters to us, as well as our responsibilities as parents. Maybe she will someday learn from our example.
Independent adults means they have minds of their own. Financial independence is another issue and does not change the fact that these young adults are not a part of their parents.
@wis75 My daughter had an “mind of her own” when she was a toddler and still does as a teenager. That does not mean she has the maturity to get her way every time she wants it. A college student who doesn’t consult his or her parents on changing a major is just as immature and selfish as a parent who abandons his family to “find himself.” When your actions affect those around you who support you and are a part of your life, you have an obligation to include them in major decision making, whether that decision is changing a major (as a college student) or buying a house or accepting a job offer across the country (if married). And if you feel you can’t discuss something as important as a change in major with the people who are supporting you through college, then you are not “adult” enough to be making the decision. You may call it “independent,” but I all it “entitled.”
I don’t think that changing your college major without telling your parents is the same level of selfishness as a parent leaving the family to “find oneself.” Changing your mind about your course of study should not be construed by the parents as some big emotional betrayal. It’s a good idea to consult with your parents. I suppose parents have the de facto right to dictate the major if they are paying for it, although I don’t think that’s very good parental practice. The student who is likely to change majors without telling mom and dad probably has parents who have dictated a rigid menu of curricular choices, and consequently, the student is scared to be open about the change. The parents have set up the problem by being too prescriptive in the first place.