Difficult elderly father

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hi folks - I have come to really enjoy the advice and empathy I find (for the most part) on CC and want to see if anyone has been in my situation and how they have dealt with it. My father just turned 79. He has always been very difficult - very opinionated - huge ego - beyond male chauvinist pig in his attitudes towards women. His basic philosophy of life is that he is always right and everyone else is always wrong. A corollary is that he is brilliant and everyone else is an idiot. He has never been physically abusive, but certainly has been verbally abusive to myself and my mother. He demands respect - if you disagree with him, fail to listen to one of his 50-year old stories, etc - you are being disrespectful. And then you get the silent treatment. My heart breaks for my mother, who has put up with this for nearly 50 years. She learned early on in their marriage that if she did not give in to him, agree with him, etc., he would either yell at her or give her the silent treatment. She always backs down. I have tried to get along with him my entire life. Even when he put me down, even when he dismissed my thoughts and opinions, I was always the first born daughter - trying to please. Well, needless to say, he has not improved with age and I am beyond tired of the situation.</p>

<p>Over the past few years, he has stopped speaking to me on several occasions - usually because I treated him with “disrespect” in his view. My mother always begged me to apologize to him, to keep the peace in the family. Well, it has happened again - he has not spoken to me in 2 months - and this time - I am not backing down. I did nothing wrong, other than fail to listen intently to a story from his army days 55 years ago. I am nearly 50 years old and do not want to be treated like a 12-year old anymore. I am trying to make my peace with this situation. I believe it is pretty likely that I will never see of speak to my fahter again. I have done my best to explain the situation to my 2 teenaged sons and tell them they are welcome to see my parents for lunch/dinner once in a while if they wish to do so. But the whole situation just breaks my heart. No more family dinners? No family Passover seder? Thanksgiving? And what happens when my father starts to really go downhill - what do I owe him at that point? </p>

<p>I am trying to accept the situation and focus on all the wonderful things in my life. I do not have any friends in the same situation. I mean, they all struggle in varying degrees with their aging parents, but no one has a parent who is not speaking to them. I would love to hear from any CC members who have gone through this or who are dealing with this right now. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>I’m sorry your relationship with your father is so difficult. I recommend finding a therapist for you to talk to for a few sessions. Having someone really listen to you and also objectively evaluate things your father has said and done will help you decide how you want to proceed from here. Your mother’s being a part of this makes it even more difficult.</p>

3

<p>I feel for you and would like to start out by saying that, no matter what people say here, you have to make the decision for yourself. When I have difficult decisions to make, I always ask myself if there is a likelihood of regret of my decision in the future. If there is, then I do some more internal reflection before I decide. This also might mean talking with someone who can just be a listener, as opposed to someone who will want to tell you what to do, or a ‘fixer’. Often just hearing yourself say these things out loud will help clarify your position.</p>

<p>You will get advice here on both sides; some will praise you for finally setting appropriate boundaries, and some will say family comes above all else and that what you are doing is hurtful. But as you said, you are almost 50, and you need to take responsibility for your own feelings and responses. Somewhere there might be a middle ground between never seeing him again and subjecting yourself to his rantings. </p>

<p>What I would do, though, if you decide to cease all communication with him is to journal about what it’s been like growing up with him as your father… the attempts you’ve made to keep peace and the frustration you’ve had at creating appropriate boundaries. Some day, it may be constructive to go back and read this to understand why you made the decision you did at this particular time… you can only do your best, given what is going on at the time.</p>

<p>As a hospice employee, I see all kinds of very dysfunctional situations where adult children and their parents have not spoken to each other in years. In some situations, there is an attempt at reconciliation (or at least civility for the sake of the rest of the family), and in some situations, it is not possible. Only you can decide what is best for you when that time occurs. But you are not alone.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

4

<p>I totally understand how you feel. I have a mother in her 80’s who is so difficult to get along with that right now my brother isn’t talking to her. My brother and I are in our 50’s. I have tried not talking to her for a time, trying to please her, everything I can think of and things get better for a time and then get worse. Luckily I have a husband who understands and he can see the whole picture better than me when I get upset. I sure don’t have an answer. I just limit contact with her but I make sure she is OK by giving her a phone call every few days.</p>

5

<p>Teriwtt has some very good advice. My heart goes out to you. My sister is married to a man who uses silence as a punishment with his wife and children. For an example: when my niece was 12, she wanted to get her hair cut. Her dad wanted it to be long. My sister let my niece get her hair trimmed an inch or two, barely noticeable, and he didn’t speak to either of them for 3 days. Seriously, he would not speak to either of them for a solid 3 days. It is his way of controlling everyone in his family. I can guess at a lot of the reasons she stays with him now, but I wonder if when the kids grow up she will leave him. I hope so, because she is a vibrant, giving, loving and amazing woman who deserves so much better. He is very much a throwback to the time when women were expected to be subservient to men.</p>

<p>I’m sorry for your pain in dealing with this very tough situation.</p>

6

<p>Teriwtt, do doctors and nurses understand that sometimes the bad things elderly people say about their children aren’t true?</p>

7

<p>Support and sympathy being sent, OP.</p>

<p>My mom is difficult, in different ways, but elderly and difficult. It sure causes thoughts of “what IS owed?” And it is hard being 50++ and not falling into the being 6 role she would prefer I play.</p>

<p>Great advice here already and I don’t have any better.</p>

<p>My thought is that it would be a relief for someone like that not to speak to me. But we always and forever need our parents approval I think it is genetic.</p>

8

<p>Rockvillmom, I have found that sometimes just getting up and starting to leave when someone is ranting and yelling at you does surprise the elderly and they sometimes stop. Would this work in your case?</p>

9

<p>Thank you for your kind replies. Esobay - you really hit the nail on the head - from a logical standpoint - it is a relief not to have to listen to him, and seethe in silence as he says horrible, mean, nasty things. But, there is still that longing for his approval. Twisted, isn’t it? </p>

<p>Shyanne - at this point - he is not speaking to me. Either he is going to blink first and call me - not to apologize - the man has never apologized to anyone for anything in his life - but I can see him calling one day and acting as if the whole silent treatment never happened. Or, I have to call him and apologize, and be treated to a lecture on how ungrateful I am, how disrespectful I am, etc., which I do not plan to do.</p>

<p>I realize after re-reading my post that I am looking for permission. I think on some level I was hoping to hear from someone who has also cut ties with an abusive parent. Perhaps a previous poster is right and a few sessions with a therapist would be helpful. But I do really appreciate the words of support.</p>

10

<p>I deal on a daily basis with my elderly parents and elderly in-laws who live nearby. Although I do not have to deal with the issue you are facing, I can absolutely understand your breaking point of not giving in any longer to to an emotionally abusive father. </p>

<p>One unfortunate aspect of dealing with your problem is that some elderly become even more abusive and paranoid as they age. So you are wise to try to address this problem now. I think the suggestion, made above, to speak to a therapist is a good one, and perhaps, it might help to talk to a social worker who specializes in dealing with the elderly. My in-laws live at an independent living facility and the social worker there has been helped us deal with a number of issues related to my mother-in-law. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that your father will never change and your mother likely will never change. Only you can change your behavior and attitude towards them. Are you still in touch with your mother? Would it be possible to continue a relationship with your mother where your father would be invited to join you if he chose to? Or would she be too afraid of the backlash if she came over for a visit without him?</p>

11

<p>I recommend the book “Coping with Your Difficult Older Parent,” by LeBow, etc. They have a lot of useful advice, but the crux of much of it is that you have to decide what you will do. It’s not the older parent’s decision any more. Then you tell the parent what you will do, and what you won’t do. You don’t argue about it, you just tell them.</p>

12

<p>My DH’s father is very difficult to deal with, to be honest, if I knew then what I know now, I would have considered telling DH to break off relations with his parents in his 20s. It would have been healthier. And maybe they would have reconnected on a better footing if DH had stood his ground early on.</p>

<p>But, once you are 50+ the time for big showy displays is over and I honour my DH’s wish to have the best possible relationship with his father. We live far away from them, which makes it simpler, we really limit contact to keep things copacetic. I am in touch with them regularly, but try to limit talk time, so I do a lot of email. I tell them everything I want to tell them and they feel involved, but I don’t punish myself by talking to them all the time ;)</p>

<p>So, we limit contact, but they are not aware we do this on purpose, as far as they are concerned everything is happy happy, at 80-90 they are not going to change and I am not going to waste any of my time or energy trying to change them, I tolerate them and allow them no power over me & my life.</p>

<p>Can you find a way to limit your involvement yet still keep things polite? It sounds like you live nearby so that makes it tougher!</p>

13

<p>My grandfather would start fights and then not talk to his sons or daughter-in-laws for 10 to 20 YEARS!!!
I once asked my father why he bothered to talk to my grandfather while my grandfather wasn’t talking to my mom for 10 years and he said, “Because he is my father.”<br>
Can you still talk with your mother if you don’t talk to your father?</p>

14

<p>Odyssey - My mother calls me once a week. We proceed to have a very superficial conversation - the weather, a movie she saw, etc. My mother does not drive - putting her further at the mercy of my father. My parents came to our home last weekend to take my 15-year-old son out to lunch. My father stayed in the car - Mom came to the door - barely looked at me - handed me some magazine she had finished with - and left with my son. I know she is afraid of angering my father. I have not invited her out to lunch - I’n not sure what she would say. I don’t want to put her in a position where she will “get in trouble”. My father is also not speaking to his sister - that one has lasted about 4 years now. He does not allow my mother to speak to her either or even send her a birthday card. You know, the more I describe this situation, the more I realize how dysfunctional it is! I think when you live in it, you just get used to it and even think it is normal.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>Absolutely! Healthcare workers would be foolish to assume that everything they hear is gospel truth.</p>

16

<p>The first thing that comes to my mind is “does he have heart disease”?</p>

<p>My grandfather who had always been fairly long suffering, developed a temper when he started having heart problems.
[Science</a> Blog – Irritability, dominance linked to coronary heart disease](<a href=“http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2000/B/200001253.html]Science”>http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2000/B/200001253.html)</p>

<p>I understand this seems to be a long standing pattern of how he relates to people, but there still certainly could be heart/blood pressure issues.</p>

<p>Writing what you feel is very helpful, whether you send it or not, in any case it helps to get something out without being interrupted.</p>

<p>I understand how stressful it is to communicate with someone who doesn’t understand give and take- but your mother doesn’t have to put up with it- she obviously has tuned it out, or gets something out of it.</p>

<p>I haven’t spoken to my father for thirty four years, however he died when he was 42.
I used visualization and written letters to help work through parts of our relationship that were left hanging.</p>

<p>I would also recommend this book [Amazon.com:</a> People Skills: How to Assert Yourself, Listen to Others, and Resolve Conflicts (9780671622480): Robert Bolton: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/People-Skills-Yourself-Resolve-Conflicts/dp/067162248X]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/People-Skills-Yourself-Resolve-Conflicts/dp/067162248X), unwittingly, there may be things that both you and your mother are doing that help to continue the pattern- or not, but by learning other ways of coping, that might help to get what you need out of the relationship.</p>

<p>I think possibly build on the positive things, taking your son out to lunch is great- as long as they don’t use it to harangue him. ( what does he say?), my mother gave her car some time ago to my niece, so anytime we wanted to see her ( she lived in another city) I had to coordinate our schedules, which was difficult.</p>

<p>I am saddened that although my mother lived with my brother off and on for the past 5 years, ( despite keeping her own home), in order to provide free child care for him :p, and while she lived the rest of the time pretty close to my sister and her 5 kids, * my kids* especially my youngest, wasn’t able to have much of a relationship with her and now since she died a month after her 75th birthday, last December, she won’t be able to.</p>

<p>If this was my situation, I think I would use my energy to distance my own relationship for the time being with my father, but do what I could to see that my children had an appropriate relationship with my parents & take what good they could from that.</p>

17

<p>There is a lot of resonance here for me. My late FIL was one of the silent treatment types when he felt he’d been disrespected. </p>

<p>At one point, we cut off communication for 2 years. All I had done was ask them, politely, not to throw cigarettes off the deck into the dry leaves – our house backed up to a 100 acre forest preserve. They stormed out – and I didn’t have to deal with them for a long time which was a relief. </p>

<p>I don’t know the answer. Sometimes I think the best thing is to ignore the silent treatment. Know that they are being irrational – and just continue to keep on doing what you are doing. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, my H has learned the silent treatment skill from his dad and occasionally tries that on me. I will say that life-changing events bring about a big thaw really fast – new baby, sudden illness, etc.</p>

18

<p>emeraldkity4 - yes! He does have heart disease - I looked at that link. My entire childhood was consumed with reprimands from my mother to not upset my father - because of his ulcer, his migraines, his heart condition, etc. Well, he is now 79 and has outlived every one of his male cousins. I wish my mother had handled things differently. In one of her rare moments of honesty, she said the same. But I do get that this pattern is long established and neither one of them is going to change now. </p>

<p>I just think it is so sad.</p>

19

<p>Much sympathy to you Rockvillemom. I am going to speak from my heart here - it may sound harsh but I do not mean it that way. Here goes:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This is actually behaving more like a twelve year old than a fully formed adult. </p>

<p>Your father clearly has some real flaws which have caused pain to you and to other members of your family. At seventy-nine, it is unlikely that he will change. It is possible that counseling and/or medication could have helped long ago. It does not sound like that is going to happen now. At some point, a shift occurs where much older adults are given a break and middle-aged adults take over the reigns so to speak. With a father at seventy-nine, I think it is safe to say that the time has come. Just as our parents took enormous amounts of garbage from us when we were teenagers, we now need to love them unconditionally and “be there for them” no matter what. </p>

<p>I do think there are extreme situations when a middle-aged adult can justify estrangement from an elderly parent. Physical or sexual abuse comes to mind. This does not sound like that type of a situation.</p>

<p>Do your dad’s personality defects negate all the good he has done in his life? Did he feed and clothe you? Stick by your mom? Did he put his own needs and wants second to caring for his family? Is it possible that he has never been able to find his way out of his own negativity (but that he might have done so years ago if given the kinds of therapeutic opportunities that exist today?). It really isn’t up to us to judge our parents, but most of us can come up with a reasonable argument in favor of forgiveness if we look at a situation from all sides.</p>

<p>You have a right to sympathy for the pain you have suffered. I do not believe that it is right for you to risk upsetting your mother and children (and ultimately yourself, because a non-relationship usually requires a lot more effort to manage than a difficult one). </p>

<p>“This time I am not backing down” sounds like it came from your dad’s playbook. Perhaps this is an opportunity to put a stop to this type of thing in your generation so it does not spread to the next.</p>

<p>I know a lot of folks like to focus on our right to set boundaries, take care of ourselves, yada yada yada. I do believe in self-care and boundaries, but this type of thinking is sorely overused. You can take care of yourself, set boundaries, and still have involvement with your dad. It is a matter of perspective. We are all capable of getting to a place where we are riding with nothing in our gas tank but love and forgiveness. This may no longer be possible for most seventy-nine year old brains, but for a middle-aged one? Definitely.</p>

<p>You can separate the chaff from the grain in every interaction with your dad and be a role model for grace. You can protect yourself while you are doing it. It is possible.</p>

<p>Apologies if anything sounded too tough – I have enormous empathy for you. I have been in your shoes.</p>

20

<p>Ouch! But there is validity in what you have written. I think I may have to mull on it a while though. I did send him a birthday card last week - thinking that might prompt him to call as I had taken a baby step towards peace. My mother acknowledged the card in her weekly call, but that was it. (Funny aside - there is no Hallmark card for Happy Birthday to the Father who no longer speaks to me. I went very generic).</p>