<p>:( Sorry!</p>
<p>Good for you for sending the card!</p>
<p>Yeah, I have not yet come across a card which could accurately relay just the right note to my dad. It might go something like this: “Here’s to the grumpiest curmudgeon who ever lived!”. Never saw that one.</p>
<p>And you are still trying to please him.</p>
<p>We do the right thing because it is the right thing to do (not in order to please others).</p>
<p>My father is becoming more and more difficult to be around as he gets older - he is in his 80s. The relationship becomes very complicated - you love him but cannot stand to be around him much anymore, but you feel guilty about not seeing him, even when he treats you badly. My H summed it up well for me: Maybe it is nature’s way of emotionally preparing you for when he passes.</p>
<p>Oh, rockvillemom, big hugs from me!</p>
<p>If it wasn’t for your mom it would be easy to no longer allow your father to control you like this. But you know your mom will take the brunt of this and that’s where you have to step up.</p>
<p>Tell her flat out you are going to apologize to him because you don’t want to cause her any pain. Then just do it and it will be over. See, you actually control him by apologizing, that is in your power. Doesn’t mean you have to mean it now, does it. </p>
<p>Then spend time with your mom and enjoy it. Remove yourself from your fathers view with a bathroom break everytime he starts on you. Just walk away with a fake excuse. Now you can take mom out for a “girls” lunch etc. without getting her in trouble.</p>
<p>I learned long ago to say “Yes, you are right!” to end conflicts like this. Walk away and be proud of yourself for cutting the attack off at the knees. You have power.</p>
<p>More hugs and more hugs.</p>
<p>wow, bay, your H is pretty smart</p>
<p>Very interesting thread and I have a couple of things to add. My father-in-law is 79 and I am almost 50 and I don’t want to talk about what my problem is with him but I’m not going to put up with him anymore. Something about getting close to 50, the next time he comes up to visit I’m going to a hotel and my husband can tell him I’m on a business trip. But that is my father-in-law, not my father, so it’s a lot easier to give up on him.</p>
<p>You mother and father are both complicit in the dysfunction that you grew up in. She never should have put up with his treatment of everyone, she enabled him to get away with it. If you want some ray of sunshine in all this I would ask if you have been able to break the cycle. Have you been able to not bring this kind of controlling, babyish behavior into your own family? Judging from you posts I would suspect that you have broken the pattern and that is something to be proud of.</p>
<p>There was a certain level of dysfunction that existed in the home I grew up in, although not approaching what you describe. Both my parents are deceased, my mother just passed away recently. I was always worried about how I would feel when she was gone. Would I be sorry about the periods of time when I didn’t call her because I was sick of the way she talked to me? Would I be sorry I didn’t visit her very much when I had my own children? Now that she is gone I have no regrets. I don’t regret the times I stood up for myself as an adult and I don’t regret the times as a kid when I caved in, I was a kid just trying to cope.</p>
<p>I believe that she was the best mother she knew how to be. She was a better mother to me than her own mother was to her just like I am a better mother to my kids than she was to me. (She would be the first to acknowledge that last statement.) In the end we were able to put our differences behind us and I was there for her, as were my siblings, and she appreciated that.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer about what you should do here. Just a family that never learned any better.</p>
<p>Spideygirl, I have lived through a lot of verbal abuse. It can tear you to pieces. I have had to cut some people out of my life to keep my health.</p>
<p>So sorry to read your story! You did such a good job of articulating how painful it must be and has been. I have much empathy for you and wish I could give you a hug. I have an older very difficult relative, who drives me completely nuts so I have just a tiny smattering of what you have experienced, so I can only imagine (and it must be so much more complicated emotionally when it’s your own parent).</p>
<p>I want to echo what some others have said on here: buy yourself some sessions in therapy. I think it will be the greatest gift to give yourself now, you deserve it, and I really think it would be the perfect thing for you now. These things are so complicated, with such history and invisible emotions and layers of stuff…I think it would be a great opportunity to sort it out with a professional. We hire professionals all the time for stuff- college counselling, plumbing repair, tennis lessons. Why not hire a professional to work you through this one? </p>
<p>My biggest concern is your father is nearing the last years of his life, and you don’t want to end up feeling left hanging after he goes. It would be so great if, while he’s still kicking, you could find a comfortable place in your relationship with him that works for you indefinitely (for the remainder of his life, and then for the remainder of yours). Whatever that solution ends up being for you- none of us can know on here- it might mean no relationship at all, or something else. But I guess my point is, with a professional you might identify the best solution for you, that you can sustain with confidence, and maybe acquire a sense of resolution or emotional acceptance of something (maybe it will mean acceptance about him, or about the fact that he was never going to change, or that it was never about you, or you could not keep trying or…I’m just throwing out random ideas, not that any are valid!). </p>
<p>I guess it would be good to get it worked through while he’s still alive and you have more options to work with. That way you will feel better about the choices you’ve made, you won’t have the same level of emotions around this terrible relationship, and you may lessen any regrets and second guessing decades from now. Ideally your grief will be less complicated when he dies too.</p>
<p>I think what starbright said is correct. The goal is to find the method of dealing with your father (whether that means ignoring his abuse or cutting off relations, etc.) that doesn’t continue to get you angry or upset or second-guessing yourself. You want to feel confident about your actions now so as not to have regrets later on and so that you aren’t in some way seeking his approval – something he has always withheld from you.</p>
<p>Well said, both starbright and odyssey.</p>
<p>Another recommendation for taking this issue to counseling. I am sure you will find it very helpful in sorting through this. You are making a big change in your life to end this abuse from your father, and you should have professional support as you do this.</p>
<p>I was reminded in the o.p.'s description of her father of my mother’s husband. (We do not call him our stepfather; he is just her husband.) She has been married to him for over 20 years, and he is also mean, manipulative, controlling, know-it-all, all that (but not to the extent of your father). Major fights and long periods of not speaking to others in his family. He has two grown children who have cut off all contact with him. He has picked huge ugly fights with my two sisters. He has almost always been nice to me, but I am very careful around him and limit contact All of us avoid him, and none of us will stay at their house any more. They live on the other side of the U.S. And guess what–he was just diagnosed with coronary heart disease and has to have open heart surgery.</p>
<p>I think you are right to change things. It’s too bad if your mom can’t still have a relationship with you. It’s actually good for your kids to see you stop taking abuse and thus change things. That is a good model for them.</p>
<p>shyanne:
</p>
<p>I guess it depends on the situation. Certainly, we are all equipped differently to handle the stress of an elderly parent who is extremely difficult. When health is in serious jeopardy, a limit has been reached. </p>
<p>All across the world at any given time there are millions of adult children managing relationships with elderly parents who are a handful. Many of them suffer health problems as a result. Even an easy going parent can be a lot to manage when he or she is in decline. Many caregivers of elderly parents are juggling teenagers at the same time. It isn’t easy.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your wonderful responses. I really appreciate the time you took to write. </p>
<p>Pea - thank you for bringing up my relationship with my children. Yes, I have broken the cycle. My kids know it is ok to disagree. They know we can have an argument on one topic, and then put it aside and resume normal conversation. I don’t take it personally if they have a different viewpoint from me. I actively solicit and respect their opinions. I apologize to them when I have spoken in anger or acted too hastily. I respect them as individuals and hope I never belittle them - I don’t think I do. I’m far from a perfect parent, but by having a father like mine, I have a very clear example of what not to do. </p>
<p>I will consider the suggestions to see a therapist about this. Before today, I really thought I was ok with it and that it didn’t bother me that much. I think I was kidding myself. Part of the sadness is that I am grieving the father I never had and that is hitting me especially hard. I don’t know if that makes any sense, but whenever I hear about this special father-daughter bond that some people share, I feel a great sense of loss. I don’t understand how a parent can simply stop speaking to their child - even as adults. Nothing that I have ever done rises to that level. I know some here have suggested that I do apologize and try to mend fences - but I think some of you get why I just don’t think I can do that. Every time I back down, I get a little smaller inside. I lose respect for myself. It just reinforces for him that it is ok to treat me this way, as I will continue to come back for more. I lose sight of the fact that I am a happily married woman with a good job and two great kids and suddenly I am a child again, being bullied by a father who makes himself feel good by putting down everyone else around him. But yet, if he suddenly died tomorrow, would I feel guilt? relief? Perhaps both. You have all given me a lot to think about. Just talking about it on here has made me feel better, but it has also made me realize that I have been trying to minimize the impact this is having on me and just move forward, when perhaps I do need to really hash it out for once and for all and get some closure.</p>
<p>Rockvillemom - I am so sorry you are going thru this. </p>
<p>My one thought is your relationship with your mom. I would be asking myself how I would feel if she passed away before my dad. I would wonder if I would regret that I hadn’t enjoyed or had her enjoy the time we had together. </p>
<p>My prayer for you would be that you could find a way to just think of your dad as a bothersome neighbor (or better yet an irritating dog) who hangs around when you visit your mom - just acknowledging and humoring him in a superficial way. Maybe if you could abandon the idea of having a decent relationship with him you could have a relationship with your mom. Actually, I have a very devious side that would delight in letting the old poop think all was well and whisking mom away for a girls day out. </p>
<p>Anyway - as someone said, you should probably ignore those of us who are incurable “fixers.”</p>
<p>I’m not surprised to hear you have broken the cycle, I thought you probably had.</p>
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<p>As another poster suggested I don’t think his behavior is about you at all. First, he does the same thing to everyone. It is about him and probably is how he was treated as a child.</p>
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<p>I used to also feel sad about what I perceive that I missed in my childhood years. I felt that way for years and for some reason I was able to move past it and now I can appreciate what my parents did right, which were many things.</p>
<p>I also think it is a good idea to see a therapist. The problem isn’t with you, it is with your parents but hopefully a therapist can help.</p>
<p>I just want to say that I am not being flippant or underestimating how painful this must be for you. My folks are great, but I have a brother who is extremely difficult. There was a moment last year when I thought he gone too far with me and in a split second I had to make a choice. I took his verbal abuse for the sake of my mom. I figure I will let him think he has the upper hand, I can always straighten him out after my parents have passed away. </p>
<p>In the meantime, I am always upbeat and superficial around him. I feign cluelessness and keep the conversations about silly things when we are together. AND - I do make a list of his good qualities before I see him - and he does have good qualities. That’s not to say it is easy, it is exhausting, but it is the road I have chosen. Not for everyone, but it is what is best for me. </p>
<p>It is a gift to my parents, particularly my mom.</p>
<p>wnp, I’d love to be a fly on the wall after your parents are gone, and hear what you say to him. That should be a doozy.</p>
<p>Your father doesn’t deserve you.Your mother made a choice to stay with him. All you can do is move on and enjoy the rest of your life.Don’t waste another day of your precious life worrying about it. Your son is learning a lot by this and he will be a loving father one day.</p>
<p>You have permission to get on with your life. You owe your parents nothing. Enjoy yourself, do not torture yourself trying to be a good child- that life is ancient history. We can’t force anyone, even (especially?) parents to be the person they should be. You are not alone- there are plenty of people who need to ignore the childishness of a parent. Never worry about needing to be nice because he may die someday- that day will be mixed blessings for all. Be thankful you don’t (and never will) share your home with him. Keep him out of sight and out of mind. I think I’ve run out of cliches, so I better quit. Sympathy for you. Sympathy for anyone needing to care for my difficult father…</p>
<p>Interesting coincidence - I rcvd my weekly phone call from my mother tonight - and we had a nice chat. Superficial perhaps, but I still enjoyed it. So, as a previous poster said, that is where I need to put my focus. I need to let my anger towards my mother go - I think if she had it to do over she would do some things differently, but there is not a whole lot she can do about my father now. But I can try to invite her to lunch or out shopping and see if she is “allowed” to do so. </p>
<p>My father’s parents were very warm, loving people - at least that’s the way I remember them. They were uneducated immigrants from Poland who spoke little English. They put my father on a pedestal - he was their first born - a boy - and he quickly took on adult responsibilities. My grandfather ran a bakery and my father, even as a young boy, did a lot of the bill paying, made phone calls, and really ran all business aspects of the bakery by the time he was a young teen. Although my grandparents had 3 children, everyone knew my father was the favorite and the one they really depended on. </p>
<p>My mother was an only child and her father was as nasty and abusive as my father is now. She was 25 and on her way to being an “old maid” school teacher when she met my father. She has literally referred to him as her “knight in shining armor” in that he rescued her from living out her life in a tiny apartment with her parents. And so the pedestal that my dad is on goes higher. My mom recently told me that as a newlywed couple, they had their first spat, and my dad stopped speaking to her. She was terrified and embarassed and had no idea how to resolve it - so she apologized and begged his forgiveness and that pattern has persisted for nearly 50 years now. </p>
<p>I relay all of this because I don’t think my father is cruel just to be cruel, or a bully just to be a bully. I think he is like a spoiled child who was lavished with so much praise that he developed a very inflated sense of his own intelligence and his own importance. And over the years, it just became more and more warped. I realize that harboring anger is self-destructive and I want to try and let the anger go, and just salvage what I can with my mother.</p>