No doubt that both men and women are selective, but on average the weighting given to different criteria differs between genders. For the ages discussed in this thread (20s and 30s), the Pew survey found that a tremendously larger portion of men were single than women. This contributes to a smaller portion of women being “screened out.” For example, the study at Are men intimidated by highly educated women? Undercover on Tinder - ScienceDirect writes that males liked 62% of profiles and initiated conversations with 26% of profiles, while women liked 4% of profiles and initiated conversations with 0.3% of profiles.
However, this conceals remarkable differences between the male subjects and female subjects. Indeed, male subjects (super)liked 61.9% of the female evaluated profiles, while female subjects (super)liked only 4.5% of the male evaluated profiles. These findings are in line with previous research on online dating in general (Fiore et al., 2010, January, Todd et al., 2007) and on Tinder in particular (Tyson, Perta, Haddadi & Seto, 2016). Indeed, Tyson et al. (2016), p. 1) argue that this is due to a feedback loop: ‘men are driven to be less selective in the hope of attaining a match, whilst women are increasingly driven to be more selective, safe in the knowledge that any profiles they like will probably result in a match’.
Regarding the question posted in the study title about education level, the abstract writes:
In line with previous research on mating preferences from multiple fields, our results indicate a heterogeneous effect of education level by gender: while women strongly prefer a highly educated potential partner, this hypothesis is rejected for men. In contrast with recent influential studies from the field of economics, we do not find any evidence that men would have an aversion to a highly educated potential partner.
There’s another category that’s not mentioned here, which is race. When I was online dating, I can’t tell you how many profiles there were where people would either select one race only as acceptable (their own) or they would have every single race checked off except for black. As a racially mixed person, I can’t tell you how frustrating and disturbing it was.
Some of the stronger preference coefficients include the following. Among men, same race preferences were stronger as age increased, but this pattern did not occur for women.
Men:
High Looks Rating – 1.3
Is 40s, Not 10+ years older – 1.3
Is Asian, Not Black – 1.3
Not High BMI – 1.1/1.2
Is <40, Not 10+ years older – 1.1
Is Black, Not Asian – 1.1
Not 5+ Inches Taller – 0.9
Is White, Not Black – 0.9
Women:
Not 5+ inches shorter – 2.7
5+ inches taller – 1.6
Is Black, not White/Hispanic – 1.4/1.5
High BMI – ~1.3
2-5 inches taller – 1.2
Is White, not Asian – 1.1
Is 40s, 10+ years older – 1.1
$250k+ Income – 1.1
Not 2-5 inches shorter – 1.1
This thread has taken a judgmental turn. If someone enjoys investing time and money in their appearance, I hope they find a partner with similar interests. Likewise, if someone leans toward a more natural look, there are matches for them too. To each their own!
What if someone is obsessive about maintaining and painting her natural long nails, yet has been known to leave the house without combing her hair? Is there a person out there for them? Not that I know someone like that!
No judgement from me if the effort is for the person’s personal edification. That’s why I said “not for themselves” in my post:
I would consider myself a bit () high maintenance as I have a hair/face routine that I’ve stuck to every.single.day since junior high, all through the isolation of Covid and in the woods of Maine where only the chipmunks judge. It’s all for me, no one else.
The problem is this:
As long as the effort is not prompted by insecurity, all is good.
OK, if we are talking about couples:
Couple 1–met in HS but didn’t start dating until law school. Got married shortly after law school. Separated during COVID after 10+ years of marriage. Met in HNL. Currently in their 40s.
Couple 2–met via dating app (2nd dating app for that niece, she had recently broken up with her college BF that she had met via dating app). They are happily married >10 years. Met in HNL. Currently in their 40s.
Couple 3–met via dating app (believe both had dated some in HS and college with others). Happily married about 7 years? Met in HNL. In 30s.
Couple 4–met via dating app (both had dated some in HS & college with others). Happily married since 2023. Met in SF. In 30s.
Couple 5–met via dating app (both had dated some before and the niece had recently broken up with BF that she had met via app and dated several years). Happily married 5+ years. Met in Honolulu. In 40s.
Couple 6–met via dating app (both had dated some in college and since). Met in DC and dated about 8 years before marrying 1+ years ago. Moved DC to NYC. In 30s.
Couple 7–met at work. It WAS casual but they’ve now been dating 8+ years and are living together. In LA. In 30s.
Couple 8—met via mutual friends, together about a year or two. In LA. In 30s.
Those are the main couples in my extended family. H and I met playing Jaycee volleyball and were on the same team. I doubt that I would have met or dated H otherwise, but we got along very well and still do after all these decades. He was interested in marrying soon after we started dating but I told him I wanted to date at least a year and see how things worked. We got engaged a little after a year, were engaged for a year and married for nearly 40 years now. I was in my late 20s and H was in his 30s.
I wasn’t sure if I should put this here or in the male struggling thread. It doesn’t neatly fit into either because it deals with both men and women and it is truly about all social interactions rather than just romantic ones.
I thought it was worth sharing since it is about the overall challenges young people seem to be having connecting with others in general. And how that is causing a decline in overall happiness.
My opinion on looks is that if someone has nothing other to go on, then they are likely to pick someone they consider “better looking” (whatever that means to the individual). If you get to know someone before dating, there are lots of other things to consider, and looks aren’t as important.
But seemingly not the finding of significant others (appears to be same as the WSJ article - look for a guy and find more female friends instead):
“My New Year’s resolution was to go to three events outside of my comfort zone—outside my normal routine—per month,” says RPI Assistant Dean Halley Choy. “Last month I tried out speed dating, and, funny enough, I actually came out with girlfriends that I now go to brunch and yoga with.”
@blossom I like a lot of what you said in your post…way back in post #11. It made me pause and think. I’d just like to add some comments to it.
I read your phrase “divorce is normalized” and paused. I imagine divorce is complicated. I know marriage can be complicated at times…not to mention marital situations vary greatly. There are obvious cons when it comes to the effect of divorce on children, but there are also possible pros. So I agree that it’s great that we no longer demonize people whose marriages have ended.
I also agree with this. The examples you gave are often true and painful to experience/witness.
It was a Diary of a CEO podcast with a divorce attorney where I heard the provocative argument made that we (as a society) should make it much harder to get married and have kids, but make divorce really easy. (Interesting in theory, but difficult in practice of course)
It’s the third paragraph with which I’ve been wrestling:
Do you think observing divorce raises expectations? I would think it might do the opposite…making them more cautious when it comes to marriage and more aware of possible marital pitfalls.
It’s why I think more young women in particular are motivated to becoming less financially dependent on a spouse….and possibly why young women are making certain choices when it comes to having children. Imo social expectations are pretty low right now, while the “wants list” is pretty high…if that makes sense.
D2 has asked me to join her for a couple of walks she is doing this weekend with two different women’s walking groups. She is hoping to make some new connections if she starts attending things like this. She also told me yesterday that she found a group that coworks at a space in the late afternoons not far from her house. She is going to try and do this at least one time in the next couple of weeks. We also signed up for a book club (all women) together that we are going to the end of April. I don’t mind tagging along with her on some of these outings as I know D2 is outgoing and will talk with people, but she likes to have someone she knows with her at least as she starts exploring these options.
Both of my daughters, ages 30 and 35, are married. I would say most of their friends are in a relationship or married (with kids). D1 met her spouse while in college. D2 had a lot of meaningless BFs in college. After she graduated she met someone at a party. In NYC young people have a lot of parties or get together at bars with their college friends or friends of friends.
D2 went out with this guy for 5+ years then broke up because he didn’t want to marry her. She went on a dating app. Within the first month she found 3-4 guys interesting. She went out with her now husband first because someone cancelled on her. Her husband also broke up with someone whom he dated for 10 years, since college. For them it was love a first sight. She never went out with anyone else from the app. They dated 2 years and got married last July. They are very compatible, much more so than the other BF.
In many cities there are alumni clubs and they host a lot of activities. I think that’s a good way to meet people. I read some where that a lot of people tend to marry someone from their school, even years later, because they have a lot more commonality and shared experiences..
That what happened with ds1 and DIL. They went to the same LAC but only overlapped one year and didn’t know each other. Met at a party with alums years after he graduated.
After reading through the replies I think the initial question is complicated. But, the dating apps offer endless potential options and because of that, I think many people are “ waiting” for the better deal.
Years ago when you met someone organically there was conversation, in person or by phone. You were able to make a connection, imo on a deeper level. With the advent of apps “connection” is 2 dimensional via texting. Much harder to really know someone if you are not listening to their voice or reading body language etc. Humans really connect when using most of their senses and unfortunately a screen and key pad does not work as well.
I am happy to announce that my mid-20s daughter became engaged yesterday. She’s been with him for 6+ years now, starting in college, which is the best time to get to know someone.
) high maintenance as I have a hair/face routine that I’ve stuck to every.single.day since junior high, all through the isolation of Covid and in the woods of Maine where only the chipmunks judge. It’s all for me, no one else.