I went to a small rural hs in the Bible Belt. The school prepared the girls for office or mom work. The boys for farm work. FFA, FHA, 4-H, were big in my school. Everyone dated in hs except for the truly socially awkward. I had 40 kids in my class and many of my classmates got married right out of hs or soon after. Because, you know, the Bible Belt. I think that’s a factor in why young people don’t get married earlier presently. You don’t have to get married to have sex anymore.
My oldest daughter has dated four young men. She is needy and IMO becomes attached way too easily to the people she dates. She wanted each of them to be the ONE, and two were hs boyfriends! Two of the four were completely unsuitable for her, but she had a three year relationship with one. She lives with her current SO, who she met when they were working summer jobs with the NPS. He’s not the type that I would have envisioned for her, but they treat each other well, have fun, and have a good relationship. They’ll probably get married and I’ll be happy for her. When I talked to her during hs about it being ok to date without an expectation that it would last forever, she told me that she thought I had dated two many boys in my youth and was borderline promiscuous! I was absolutely not! Boys asked me out and I accepted, but I had no intention of getting married and settling down until I had some adventures under my belt. And no way was I going to stay in my home state!
My youngest didn’t date until she was a junior in college and that relationship lasted 2.5 years. He was a friend of a friend and she met him after a football game and gave him a ride home. It petered out when he graduated and she stayed to get a masters. She wasn’t sad it ended. I think she likes being friends with more than dating guys. I think she’d love a platonic marriage! I do want her to find a partner bc we are older parents with no strong ties to our families so I want her to have someone to be there for her in life. Sigh. She’s going back to the office in her new job in a few weeks (if she doesn’t get fired by DOGE) and I hope she’ll meet some people in her large work unit.
I didn’t date much and didn’t have a serious boyfriend til,I was in my thirties. My kids though are very different. Older daughter never had a boyfriend til at 22 she started her first job and in her words “ schemed” to “ get” a guy she saw a picture and profile of in her company’s internal Facebook of new starting employees. She told me to listen to Taylor Swifts Mastermind *because that told their story. Lol. 5 years later they married.
Younger daughter (27) is an apps girl. She has had several boyfriends from people she met on the apps. Her current and most serious boyfriend she met after a year of apps based dating of probably 25 different people she went out at least once with after her previous relationship ended. They began living together a year after they met. But she had boyfriends from the time she was in middle school and enjoys dating. Something I hated. She’s like my mom
After my father died I think my mom went out with 30 different men. Then met my stepfather and they were together for 20 years. And now at 92 she still goes on dates! She meets men everywhere like most recently at a museum !
Mastermind edited lyrics
Once upon a time, the planets and the fates
And all the stars aligned
You and I ended up in the same room
At the same time
What if I told you none of it was accidental
And the first night that you saw me, nothing was gonna stop me?
I laid the groundwork and then, just like clockwork
The dominoes cascaded in a line
What if I told you I’m a mastermind?
And now you’re mine
It was all by design
'Cause I’m a mastermind
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail
Strategy sets the scene for the tale
I’m the wind in our free-flowing sails
And the liquor in our cocktails
And I swear
I’m only cryptic and Machiavellian 'cause I care
So I told you none of it was accidental
And the first night that you saw me, nothing was gonna stop me
I laid the groundwork and then saw a wide smirk
On your face, you knew the entire time
When I married 25 years ago I quit my career and stayed home full time to raise my kids. I started working again when my youngest was in 5th grade as a dog walker and pet sitter, very flexible so I could still be home after school, for activities, etc.
I was definitely judged by many women.
It was one of the best decisions of my life.
I don’t know if looking down is the right word. I think the reason more and more people in this generation hesitate to have children is to avoid to be locked down in this position.
That’s interesting. I was judged very harshly for returning to work when my kids were young. I do not recall one negative comment when I was a SAHM for 10 years.
That said, I really don’t want my D to be in a position where she is economically vulnerable.
It’s a shame that they might think children will lock them down. I love my boys. I’d do anything for them, and have.
I have no clue if my boys will have kids. LEO son will marry my awesome future DIL when they are both 25, so they’ll help bring the average age down. I would guess the “family” discussion won’t get serious until around 30 because both have demanding careers with lofty, intense goals. That will take time.
Would both of my boys do well on a dating app? Probably. Is that the very last thing they’d want to do? Yes. Both excel in the 3D world and wouldn’t want it any other way. I’ll be interested to watch their relationships over the years.
I had plenty of negative comments about wasting my education when I opted to be a SAHM. It used to bug me when I was younger and I felt a lot of pressure to return to paid work even though I was very active in my community as a volunteer. I would have gone back to hospice work (had a job offer in hand) when my D was in middle school but my mom was diagnosed with ALZ and I had to be part of her caregiving team. No regrets now but lots of judgement along the way. I don’t think women are very supportive of each other with those kinds of decisions because so many think it’s a judgement about their own decision.
Personally I dont know if that kind of stuff plays into the dating challenges. Certainly not at my D’s age (24) but I could see where it could in your 30s.
Btw, I told my d about this thread and it helped her feel less alone. I think sometimes she feels like the only single person left. Doesn’t help that her closest friends are starting to get engaged.
She also shared she’s open to dating a woman. That would certainly open up the dating pool. She has no height requirements on her end. All previous boyfriends have been shorter. She’s tall at 5’11 1/2 and I think sometimes that’s a turn off for some men.
I firmly believe she’ll meet someone well suited to her at some point. It just may take some time.
Hah! Wasn’t intending to sound dog obedience-esque, but I have to say, it may be that some of the obvious disdain in the post, and the reactions by the moms in the comments, that I was reacting to may have bled over into some unintended sarcasm on my part. This particular young lady clearly wants a partner who will share in the cooking and cleaning and share equally the duties that, historically, have been associated with women. A number of the moms (because it was almost exclusively moms responding to this whole thread) talked about how they had taught their sons well, they modeled different more gender-role-balanced expectations for their sons, their sons were better trained to treat women well, etc. Basically, it was a lot of “my boy is way more progressive than my dad because I taught him that.”
I think people judge women in this area no matter what they choose. I don’t know how many times I heard “Why are you going to still work?” when I was pregnant with older S. I was judged a LOT! Well… with H’s teaching salary and crappy health insurance (even 27 years ago), just on his salary after ONLY paying health insurance premiums (that covered nothing - wellness visits were not only not covered, they didn’t go toward the deductible) and our tiny mortgage on our 1960s ranch… we would have had a whopping $500 a month to live on to pay all bills. But I digress. Oh yeah, I was judged harshly…
I remember a colleague who has done very well here… when she was pregnant and continued to work, she lamented “We teach our girls that they can do and be whatever they want to be… And then when they have kids, we shame them for trying to do just that.” That stuck with me…
But yes… I don’t believe women who stayed home weren’t judged either. It’s a lose-lose situation.
And re: is being a tradwife looked down on - I think the real key is just everyone being kind to each other. That’s totally simplistic and I know that, but the problem, imho, is exactly what @momofboiler1 noted - women who aren’t supportive of each other and it seems to be because alternate choices feel like an indictment of your own.
Just like with most of the other big issues discussed on this board, if people could just be more understanding that different choices are right for different people, for different reasons. And be supportive of that, then we’d be in a much better place.
Like the young lady on the parents facebook page discussion I referred to - she wants to work and wants to be in a relationship where everything is shared equally. That’s great! She needs to find that guy and as long as he supports that and their values align, that’s all that they need. And who knows, maybe in a few years things will change as their lives and skills and needs change. And if she has a friend that wants to take on more of the home duties, who wants to be a SAHM (or, hell, SAHD) and that works for their family, then no one should judge them for that either. It just means that they may not be looking for the same partner, because they have different lifestyles in mind, but that’s good too.
If I could wave a magic wand about, it would be to take away so much judginess in general.
This. I wonder if you would feel this way if your daughter had to put her very promising career on indefinite hold and be fully economically dependent on her partner. It’s easy to be cavalier about this with sons.
The “partner” part for me essentially mitigates the financial worry. Everything my wife and I possess is jointly owned. There are no separate accounts. We’re partners.
If I had a daughter that could afford to be a SAHM I would be thrilled for her and my grandchildren.
In reality, I don’t know how people afford to be a SAH anything. Both partners need to work. My wife and I both worked, but we made sacrifices. There are very few people in this world I would make sacrifice for, but children would be at the top of that list.
I think “tradwife” has a very different connotation than SAHM to the generation we are talking about. Tradwives are social media influencers who post content about their beautiful homes, attractive, clean, well behaved kids, their alluring makeup and delicious prepared meals. It’s all about how to attract and keep a husband, with a lot of patriarchy and submission thrown in. They are definitely looked down upon by my daughter and her college graduate friends. On the other hand she has some high school friends who got married very young and did not go to or finish college, who are big fans.
Tradwife and SAHM are not interchangeable terms. The trad movement is based in white nationalism and advocates women not voting or working, having many children, and deferring to their spouse in all things, with a duty to please and protect their alpha male. And yes, it’s on social media as a kind of Stepford perfection
There is a ton of misogyny thrown into the Trad-wife identity. Despite the reality that some of these influencers are the main financial support of their families by monetizing their “content” (i.e. exploiting their children who are too young to give consent to having their every waking moment documented on social media) the overall view is that women shouldn’t work, should not worry about money, exist to breed.
Boys asked me out and I accepted, but I had no intention of getting married and settling down until I had some adventures under my belt. And no way was I going to stay in my home state!