<p>cos, and as a daughter, I would hope that my father trusts me enough to be able to figure out those things for myself.</p>
<p>cosmic, with all due respect, those questions are ridiculous. Given the ages of the two young people, and the amount of time they’ve been together, don’t you think they’re capable of working those things out for themselves? The D is not chattel, and the parents know the young man well enough to think highly of him.</p>
<p>OP, what a wonderful gesture for this young man to make, in this day and age. He is conveying his deep respect for you, and more importantly, for your daughter. The only advice I’d give is that you work the phrase “You have our blessing” somewhere into the conversation. :)</p>
<p>
Romani, I would hope so as well, and I like to think that I would indeed trust my daughter to make that decision. You are missing my point - as I said, I do not think that he needs the parents’ permission to marry their daughter, but if he is going to make the effort to ask for their blessing, I think he deserves a serious consideration and a serious response. I do not think a “yeah, you’re fine!” is going to be adequate - he may want reassurance himself that the parents are on board, especially given his past, and I see no reason not to take the moment and give him the courtesy of genuinely considering the request.</p>
<p>Again, this has nothing to do with a lack of trust in the daughter. It has to do with respecting a prospective son-in-law.</p>
<p>
Thank you. They (well, two of them at least) were asked of me once. I appreciated that I was being taken seriously and that someone outside the two of us thought it was a good idea.</p>
<p>
I would hope so, yes. But I know that people make mistakes, and am not so arrogant to think that two people of any age are so guaranteed to be right that a serious outside opinion is not worth the time. This is not a trivial decision, and about the half the people in this country who make that lifelong commitment later ask to end it. I am not saying that there is any reason to suspect that of the OP’s daughter, but I am sure that a good chunk of the people getting divorced were certain that they would never be there. Any step you can take to make sure that you are making the right decision is worth the time.</p>
<p>
I never once stated that she was chattel, and that was the point I was trying to make in noting that he did not need their permission. As to the parents, I do not doubt that they think highly of him and my questions were not meant to imply otherwise.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But they do imply otherwise. If I think highly of someone, I assume they have the intelligence and perceptiveness to think through a major life decision. Questions like “Do you love her?” or “Have you been honest with her?” are insulting, as if the parent fears that it’s never occurred to the young people to think about them.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If the young people ASK for an outside opinion, absolutely. But if not, and if the parents don’t have serious reservations (which the OP they indicates they do not), then it’s out of line to give unsolicited advice. And to respond to the young man’s generous, respectful gesture by putting him on the hot seat is WAY out of line.</p>
<p>
Part of the point of asking said questions is to reassure the young man that (a) these are the important things to consider and that (b) they ARE obviously things that they have already considered and for which he has a quick and easy answer. You can ask any of these obvious questions in a manner that makes them insulting or reassuring as you choose.</p>
<p>
What exactly do you think he is doing? If he does not care what the parents think, then why ask for their permission/blessing? And if he does, why not give him the courtesy of serious consideration? I cannot imagine thinking highly of someone who asks for my blessing but does not think that I should in any way consider his suitability!</p>
<p>
Where did I suggest giving advice? The OP asked for questions to ask, I gave questions to ask. I did not suggest a lecture or advice of any kind*. I suggested questions that I would hope would be serious but simple and easily answered, questions that should be reassuring the young man both that he has his bases covered and that the parents’ blessing has some thought and consideration behind it.</p>
<p>
This is not the hot seat, not by a country mile.</p>
<p>*: I did in my previous post use the word “opinion” - I perhaps confused you here. The opinion in this case is a seriously considered blessing. A simple “If you’re good enough for my daughter, you’re good enough for me” is fine but is a statement only about the daughter, and says nothing independently of the young man or the wisdom of the marriage. If you seriously consider the young man and the coupling, make it clear that you have done so, then by giving the blessing you are telling them that you think the whole thing is a good idea - the daughter AND the son-in-law. </p>
<p>It is like a quality control check on an important build - the guys who build jets are selected, trained, and tested to ensure excellence, and someone still goes around afterwards and checks their work because it is too danged important to allow the possibilities of mistakes. I feel the same way about marriage - trust, but verify!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I completely agree with you cosmicfish and I’m a 25 year old male. </p>
<p>1 1/2 years is actually not a lot of time to know somebody. I’ve known people for years and still don’t know everything about them.</p>
<p>If the guy has any hesitation with any of the questions, then that means he is not ready to get married.</p>
<p>As a mother of a D, I think there is nothing wrong with cosmicfish’s approach. I respect my D and trust that she knows herself and I trust her decision in her choice of mates. But to ask these questions does not take away from that, knowing full well that by him coming to the parents is a courtesy and not a requirement.
If it were us, my D would just shrug it off and think, " there go my parents".</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Of course one would assume the short answer to all of the above questions would be “yes”, but I think these questions would precipitate a lovely and heart-warming conversation among future family members.</p>
<p>I don’t think it should be looked at as just a gesture. I wouldn’t grill the guy but I would take it seriously. It’s not about permission but about being on the same page regarding the seriousness of marriage to the daughter. There has to be some dinner conversation anyway. I think this can be done in a pleasant way which shows the parents are also being thoughtful and respectful of the young man.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is the daughter having the same conversation with her prospective fiancee’s parents, then? Shouldn’t this conversation be between the couple and maybe with parental input from both sides? Male talking to her parents screams asking for permission.</p>
<p>And if a guy that I was in a serious relationship with had the conversation that cosmicfish described with my parents, I’d actually be pretty upset with both him and my parents. My parents would never do that, though. </p>
<p>I think you should just take it as an opportunity to get to know him better. It’s not your job to vet your daughter’s boyfriends and decide whether it’s the right person/they’re ready for marriage. It’s hers.</p>
<p>“Do you love her?” or "Have you been honest with her?</p>
<p>The underlying problem with those questions is that the guy would lie if it weren’t true. He’s not going to say, “Uh, no I don’t love her. I’m just marrying her because she’s got a trust fund.” or “Yes, I’ve been dishonest. I haven’t told her about my kids from 3 different prior relationships that I’m paying child support to.” </p>
<p>As a Catholic, we don’t go into this idea of men asking the women’s parents for permission, etc. As a couple we told our parents that we were marrying. We didn’t ask for permission or blessing because that is not part of our religious culture. It is inheritantly sexist for men to be “talking to the women’s parents” when such a thing isn’t happening in reverse. </p>
<p>Instead, as someone who loves their child/sibling/friend who is considering marriage, it would seem wiser to just observe how the “intended” (male or female) treats your loved one to determine whether you are happy about the impending union. If there are “red flags,” then try to find a diplomatic way to mention them (hopefully LONG before there is an engagement announcement!)</p>
<p>If the couple is youngish, then it’s very possible that they may not have the where-with-all and discernment to even recognize some very serious “red flags”. There was a thread a couple years ago about “red flags” in dating relationships and there were many posts about obvious red flags that couples distracted by “love” weren’t seeing.</p>
<p>I have two older sons (both married) and a daughter (not yet). We did, indeed, have heart-to-heart talks with both future-daughters before they married our sons, but our family is “old-fashioned” enough that we encouraged our sons to “speak” to their future-spouse’s parents before proposing. It’s a respect thing, I think. Also cultural, to some extent. </p>
<p>I know that DH has let our daughter know that he surely does hope that her future-husband has the courtesy to have “the talk” with him before proposing! And I hope my D has the kind of relationship with her future in-laws that would enable her to talk openly with them as well…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s definitely cultural. It stems from a societal time when women did not work outside the home and needed their father or husband to support them and look after them – and vetting the prospective son in law was the last major looking after the father did before the daughter was no longer his responsibility. I suppose it shows respect to the woman’s father. As somebody who thinks that women are just as capable of looking after themselves as men and families look out for each other, regardless of gender, I think the whole ritual is actually pretty disrespectful of the daughter. And you know, she’s the one this is supposed to be about.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids, I had no idea that was a Catholic belief. That’s awesome. Maybe my Catholic heritage (I was not raised practicing any religion but my mom was raised Catholic) is pushing through.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It would be very easy to tell if he is lying. I would look at his mannerisms and if he takes a pause after the question or repeats the question before he answers.</p>
<p>Heavens! A Catholic belief? I never heard that one. We were raised as Catholic as they come and each one of my sisters’ husbands spoke to my Dad about marrying each one of his (7!) daughters. Then they shot back some horrible brandy and continued with the celebration!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I never heard of that one either. On Everybody Loves Raymond, Robert was Catholic and he asked Amy’s parents for her hand in marriage.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Oh, and what a TV show depicts is “Catholic tradition”? lol…uh, no.</p>
<p>If any Catholics out there are asking the bride’s parents’ permission then they are doing it out of an American culture influence.</p>
<p>Sometimes American culture has even creeped into a few Catholic weddings… One time I did hear the bride’s dad get asked “who gives this woman’s hand in marriage” at a Catholic wedding…that is a “no no”. In the Catholic church, fathers/parents do NOT give their D’s away. The dad walking the D down the aisle is not a “giving away” practice…he’s just escorting her. It’s not even required. The bride can walk alone, walk with her future H, whatever. </p>
<p>The reason it is not part of the Catholic rite rests with the theology of the Sacrament of Marriage. The bride and groom are the ministers of the Sacrament, and free and full consent are required for a valid, sacramental marriage. Therefore, no one “gives” the bride, she gives her consent herself before the witnesses and God.</p>
<p>The bride “presents” herself to her groom and vice versa. They also “marry each other”. they are the ministers of the sacrament. The priest is only a church witness.</p>
<p>the only somewhat similar thing regarding outsider response is that Bans of Marriage are posted for a few weeks prior. That is in case someone in the community knows a reason why one or both should not be married (exisiting marriage, etc).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My whole family is Catholic and I know others who are Catholic. Every single time, the groom asked for the bride’s hand in marriage. Like I said and another person has said, I have never heard that it is against Catholic beliefs to ask for the parents for the bride’s hand in marriage.</p>
<p>It’s done by Catholics in Ireland as well. The church may not care but it is part of Catholic cultural tradition.</p>
<p>This thread reminds me of why this uncomfortable conversation has never and will never happen for me. We’ll go out to dinner and announce rather than ask anything. No good would come from it. My parents would be confused as to why they’re being asked and his parents would raise concerns over my lack of religion. </p>
<p>I still say the op asks nothing and just wishes them the best. Happy occasion! :)</p>