Disappointed in grad's behavior

blossom · July 23, 2009, 11:45pm

OP- my sympathies.

Here’s what I’ve observed among friends, relatives, etc:

What works- give kid a choice… you’re either a boarder here, so you pay us rent, use of phone, gas, food, etc. and we don’t get to give you advice or nag you about your future (your landlord doesn’t get to nag, just gets to cash your check once a month); or you’re a member of this family and we are partners with you in helping you get on track. If we’re partners, you need to remember that we all have the same goal- getting you launched and out of here, which means that you need to consider our counsel and advice and even if you think we’re dopes, you have to shut up and less us voice our opinion.

your call. Pay us or shut up and let us help.

Here’s what doesn’t work- everyone quietly seething. She wishes she were working, you wish she were working, everyone afraid to call it like it is, which is: In a bad economy, any job is better than no job. So if it means stocking pantyhose at CVS or making smoothies at a local health club or taking care of your ill mother and driving her to Dr’s appointments and doing her grocery shopping… whatever it is, any job is better than none. Plus when you work you interact with other people who work; when you don’t, you interact with all the other unemployed folks which is bad karma and doesn’t help you network.

So I think a little clearing of the air is in order. You need to stop being so considerate of her need to get a job in her field (the fact that her major is in demand in your area is irrelevant if she’s trying to get back to her college city); she needs to stop being such a brat, and you all need to lay your cards on the table.

Occasionally I’ve had to remind my kids that “our love for you is unconditional… our financial support ends 6 months after you finish college but we’ll still love you always”. Your D needs some deadlines right now to help her focus on the task at hand.

Heck, folding towels at Bed Bath Beyond sounds better than moping around the house, doesn’t it?

mikemac · July 24, 2009, 12:25am

After graduation from UCLA 1 person I know worked in a factory for minimum wage assembling electronic components while looking for a career job. Another, graduating during a slump in demand for engineers, was shelving books at the local library. But both were supporting themselves, living in cheap apartments shared with friends. Clearly the OP’s D doesn’t feel the same impetus to do something, and responsibility has to be shared between her and the OP for this; one for acting, one for allowing.

I agree with what blossom wrote. Either she’s part of the family working together, or she’s starting out on her own doing whatever it takes. Personally I think that given her denial of her situation (going on vacation when she doesn’t have any money or a job), and her unreasonable behavior towards her family, I think its time to show her the door. I really think the OP here is enabling this behavior; how many other parents would tolerate the blatant disrepect and actual rock throwing? Clearly she expects she can get away with it. And I put it to the OP – can she?

collegeshopping · July 24, 2009, 8:24am

“I’m glad I’m not one of your 8 kids”

Why is that? Because we are responsible enough parents to teach our children the difference between right and wrong? Because when adult children live in our home, we expect them to follow rules that have to be followed by all of the other children? Because we bust our butts in our business and have provided a 100% paid for college education for every eligible child in our household, without the need for them to work during college or even pay for a single book or pencil? Because every child in our home over the age of 16 has their own car to drive? Because not one child in our house “wants” for anything? The cost of this to our children…be respectful, serve your community with 100+ community service hours a year, use manners and be a good citizen…let me apologize to you “givings” for being such a harsh parent. Let me assure you of something. Someone with your attitude would never be one of my children. I am a better parent than that.

mom2three · July 24, 2009, 12:26pm

DS is graduating soon in a tough job market. I KNOW that what he would consider “pounding the pavement” and what I would consider pounding the pavement are two VERY different things. I also know that with old high school chums to hang out with around here, some very unproductive patterns could develop very quickly (stay out late, sleep late, too late to job hunt today, rinse and repeat…).

Lots of room for potential conflict as DH and I get up and head to the salt mines every day. So I have checked with my elderly parents, who live a couple of hours away, who could really use some help with chores (just taking out the garbage, etc., are very taxing for them) and DS will be basing his job hunt from their home. With other family in the area to drive him crazy - er, help - I think he’ll be far more motivated than he would be here. And unlike here, there will be people IN THE HOUSE ALL DAY encouraging him to reach his potential.

I hope it will work. I’ve made it clear that he’s welcome to live here once he has a job, to save up and get his own place. I just know my son too well.

We’ll see how it goes. I feel for the OP. But I couldn’t have a kid in my home treating me that way. I’m not wired that way.

musicamusica · July 24, 2009, 12:42pm

Mom2three
DO KEEP US POSTED. That sounds like a great idea.

mimk6 · July 24, 2009, 1:22pm

My son worked part time during college and after he graduated, he and a group of friends traveled through Europe for seven weeks – that’s where some of his money went and I think he learned as much from that trip as from college. Upon returning, he moved in with us for several weeks while he job-hunted. While he was not as aggressive and rude as your daughter, he wasn’t particularly happy to be here and it showed. How could our house, with younger siblings, compare to the freedom of college and Europe? The process of looking for a job was depressing and demoralizing. He had his resume everywhere but it doesn’t take 12 hours a day, in the Internet age, to post resumes, go through websites, etc. Interviews don’t pop up that often. It’s a very stressful time.

I am not at all condoning overtly rude behavior, I’m just saying that a lot is going on both on the surface and below it. Everyone is nervous as to how long this living arrangement will last. It’s not just a kid coming home – it’s an adult child suddenly coming home, and not because they want to be there. It can shift the sibling subsystem, test the adult child’s ability to handle stress and uncertainty and more. He was lucky that the economy was different then and he landed a good job, and luckier still, to have kept the job while layoffs have happened in his company. I remember feeling really grateful when he moved out and being surprised that I did. Not because I don’t love him, but because it was clear he doesn’t belong in our house anymore and can’t be happy if he is dependent on us. That point does come. And once he had the job in hand, he and his roommate, moved into his grandmother’s for a month because it was a much better commute and allowed them to save enough money for move-in costs and helped them to apartment hunt in the area. And I think, as Mom2three, posted, grandparents can be a very good place for the transitioning college grad to be. She loved having them and benefitted from having a couple of young men around to help out.

Because the dynamics are different than summer break during college, I think it’s helpful to have a sit-down where boundaries are set and expectations discussed. And I think it’s appropriate to say what will not be tolerated and to decide on what Plan B will be if this isn’t a workable situation. Is there a relative or friend she can live with? Maybe someone who need child care or help with housework in exchange for board? And I think I would ask how she feels about the way she is behaving. Does she see that it’s a problem? Does she feel she needs help or someone to talk to? She probably doesn’t feel good about how she’s handling things. But I do think limits need to be clearly stated and there should be an understanding that some things will not be tolerated.

Delicate_Arch · July 24, 2009, 3:42pm

I haven’t been in your position yet, thank goodness. It all sounds very hard and you have my sympathies.

One thing that has not received much attention here is the role of your ill mother. I too have a lot of responsibilities for my mom. For some reason that I have yet to discover having my attention distracted by, say, work is not nearly as irritating to the kids as having my attention aggravated by my mom. It’s almost like they feel displaced by a new sibling that is hogging my attention.

If you go into some third part mediation/counselling (which sounds like a GREAT idea) don’t be surprised if you start to hear accusations along the lines of you are fine with doing … for grandma but won’t do … for me. Or you care more about everyone else’s happiness than mine (read grandma’ s happiness) and so on.

Of course, this is wildly unfair to anyone in the sandwich generation pressure squeeze, but if you are prepared for it, maybe it won’t be such a shock to hear.

On another note, could the family/extended family hire her to help with your mother?

unsoccer-mom · July 24, 2009, 4:17pm

We could be in a similar situation, but we discussed it in advance and for the time being support DD living on her own. We told he as long as she was doing something, we would help. We also told that starting September 1, the financial support would begin to taper off. I think that it is really unrealistic to expect someone to go straight from college to supporting themselves. You need to help her set financial goals, but you also need to back off and give her some freedom and time to adjust. Rock throwing, however, is completely unnacceptable behavior.

katsy23 · July 25, 2009, 1:50am

I am in the exact same situation–except I’m the daughter. I haven’t thrown any rocks, but my parents and I have been arguing on-and-off for quite some time.

I started off this year as a junior in college. I knew the economy was going downhill, and after failing to secure an internship for this summer early on, I decided to graduate early. I wanted to save on tuition costs but also get a jumpstart on full-time recruiting. I expected my parents to be pleased, but instead they were frustrated that I would be graduating without a job offer. Now that summer is more than halfway over, my parents are increasingly more concerned and frustrated. To begin with, there are fairly few job postings out there for entry-level positions in this economy, and even though I’ve applied and been interviewed, I’m still unemployed.

My parents think I’m just being lazy (which I admit I sometimes am). In their attempts to motivate me to get a job, my parents have tried threatening to kick me out. They have speculated I would still be sitting here at home a year from now when all my former classmates are making bank at their big jobs–and oh boy, won’t I feel embarrassed and ashamed then! And also, if I don’t have a job now, future potential employers will look upon my employment gap with disdain–and then I’ll have an even harder time getting a job! My parents’ friends smugly suggest to me that their local Safeway is hiring and they could inquire for manager openings on my behalf. Such comments are starting to get really annoying, and I feel even less motivated to care about what happens. I know I’m not alone, but I’m tired of having to defend myself to my parents and their friends (and some of my own friends as well) that I’m not just another good-for-nothing freeloader.

I DO plan on trying harder though and I completely understand where my parents are coming from. I’ve started to looking into unpaid internships, grad school, and other back-up plans. The worst thing in all of this is, I’m just 20 and don’t feel prepared to tackle a demanding full-time job in difficult economic times.

poetsheart · July 25, 2009, 2:47am

Collegeshopping’s posts no.s #37 and #43: Amen and Amen!

Northstarmom · July 25, 2009, 7:57am

My parents’ friends smugly suggest to me that their local Safeway is hiring and they could inquire for manager openings on my behalf."

I have a college graduate, mature adult friend who had owned a successful PR business, who has been supporting herself by working at Safeway. I have 2009 college graduate friends who are working as waiters because those were the only jobs they could get. Your parents’ friends’ suggestions are reasonable. You need to consider all legal options for employment. These are tough times. One takes what one can get.

“I’m just 20 and don’t feel prepared to tackle a demanding full-time job in difficult economic times.”

You get prepared by using all means to get a job. That’s how you learn to get employment. There are plenty of people who are “just” your age and are living on their own and supporting themselves and their kids – and who don’t even have the benefit of a college degree and supportive family who can offer good advice. Time to grow up and hit the pavement. It’s also important to be more aggressive in looking for employment. Don’t just respond to ads, but also contact friends of friends to get advice. After being interviewed, call and write the employers to let them know you’re enthusiastic about the position and would like the job. Some employers even routinely turn down all applicants and only consider hiring those assertive enough to call to plead their case.

northeastmom · July 25, 2009, 8:04am

NSM, I know someone who has a college degree (math major) with certification to teach. He did not like teaching and has worked for over 25 years at a grocery store chain, managing his department. He stayed with the chain all of those years so I guess that he likes his job. He has been supporting his family, and his wife is a SAHM.

mom2three · July 25, 2009, 8:10am

Katsy23-

Why aren’t you taking up your friends’ parents’ offers of intros to the Safeway managers?
Is there something wrong with ringing up groceries in this economy while you continue to look for your long-term career job?

I doubt they are being smug. I’ll bet they are trying to be helpful.

And I think this is the disconnect that causes so much strife between parents and their unemployed, sitting-at-home, college grads. Because WE didn’t all walk straight into our dream jobs, but many of us WORKED until we found that job. And we are working right now, after years of working to provide for our kids and working to put them through school. But working so they can sit and mope and whine and be lazy and too good for a Walmart or Safeway job… it gets to be a bit much.

There’s nothing wrong with the Safeway.

heyalb · July 25, 2009, 8:52am

Those comments will cease entirely when you get off your arrogant high horse and humbly say “Thank you so much, Mrs. Smith. I could really use your help, and I appreciate your putting in a good word for me.”

Not sure what your point is. You mean if the economic times were less difficult then you WOULD feel prepared to tackle a demanding full-time job? Or do you mean you just don’t feel like working, PERIOD, and you expect your parents to drop grapes into your mouth and let you sleep till noon?

The arrogance is overwhelming.

TheAnalyst · July 25, 2009, 9:20am

My first job out of grad school (professional school no less with a 4.0 GPA) was opening sweep stakes envelopes at the Reader’s Digest to remove the quarter. I punched a clock and got minimum wage. It was the hardest job I’ve ever had physically (repetitive motion, paper cuts, tied to an assembly line; much worse than waitressing or being a maid, both of which I had also done). But it is what I could find until I got a “real” job. Not working at all was not an option, from my perspective.

I was also living at home and yes it was miserable. My goal was to talk to and see my mother as little as possible. Just looking at her made me want to scream. I’m sure I was sulky and unpleasant, but hopefully not outright mean.

Naturally · July 25, 2009, 10:56am

Your parents are absolutely right, employers WILL view an employment gap with askance.

Also, why haven’t you taken up your parents’ friends on their offer? Working at Safeway is a lot more respectable than sitting around all day while you wait for a job in your field.

TimeCruncher · July 25, 2009, 11:27am

To the OP:

Congratulations on your daughter’s graduation. Graduating from college–and with honors–is a big accomplishment. Your daughter now faces the challenge of making that big accomplishment pay off.

My take on this situation is that your daughter is scared, plain and simple. Think of it this way: school has been your daughter’s “job” since she entered Kindergarten, and now, for the first time in her life, she’s “out of work,” both figuratively and literally. For someone as hardworking as your daughter, that’s a scary situation. And, given that she’s an adult and no longer a full-time college student, her status as your financial dependent is in question. Moreover, her college loan monthly repayments will start soon.

When I graduated from college thirty-four years ago, my situation was similar to your daughter’s, with three differences: 1) I began my “career” job hunt early in my senior year; 2) I had been continuously employed at either part-time school-year jobs or full-time summer jobs since my sophomore year; 3) I was flat-out determined not to return to my (abusive and controlling) parents’ home after graduation, and therefore, I was committed to doing whatever was necessary to establish and maintain independence.

When I began my senior year job hunt, I knew I’d be graduating with marketable job skills, but also with a relatively unmarketable degree. I had a $10,000+ college loan debt hanging over my head, so I knew I would have to either land a reasonably well-paying job (or, at least, a job with a reasonable opportunity for advancement), or I would have to find a way to defer my college loan repayment. I preferred to work after graduation, but I applied to grad school as a back-up plan, and it’s a good thing I did. During my job hunt (which lasted senior year and throughout my post-graduation summer), I was repeatedly rejected by personnel departments for one of two reasons: “You’re inexperienced” or “You’re overqualified.” That September, I entered grad school. I continued working at the non-benefited, not-quite-full-time job I already had, which paid just enough for me to afford tuition, rent on an efficiency apartment, enrollment in an HMO, and all other living expenses. I lived paycheck-to-paycheck. It was tough, but I survived.

In this bad economy, I expect that your daughter has also been hearing, “You’re inexperienced,” “You’re overqualified,” and many other versions of “We don’t want you.” The months drag on. She’s scared.

It has been my experience that the best way to get a job is to have a job, because prospective employers tend to look favorably upon job applicants who are already working. So, I advise your daughter to start working anywhere, doing anything, as long as she’s working. A job–any job–will enable her to earn some badly-needed money, get her out of the house and into the wide world, and provide her day-to-day existence with some productive structure (a place to go, something to do, people to see, and so forth). She should follow up on job leads recommended by others. If your community has more than one temp agency, she should sign up with all of them, and she should “demonstrate interest” to them (bug them) by phoning each agency every weekday morning to inquire about assignments, until an assignment comes through. If your community has a job-placement agency, she should sign up there, too. In the meantime, she should continue her career job hunt (geographic options open) until something comes along, but she needs to realize that it might take months–or even years–for the “right” job to surface.

As far as her out-of-character conduct is concerned, I would advise you to turn a deaf ear to the yelling, insults, and door-slamming. Whenever she storms out, just let her leave; don’t try to stop her from leaving, and don’t follow her. Having said that, I agree with every previous poster who has advised you to kick her out if she engages in any additional physical violence. One more rock–and out she goes.

sketcherma · July 25, 2009, 2:05pm

Hi all-
I have been busy at work, so have not had time to check replies until this morning…thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses!

Yes, we realize that our daughter is scared. She has always been a hard worker, with school, numerous activities, and at least one job (sometimes 2) since she has been about 13. This situation that she is in now is completely out of her comfort zone. We realize that this combined with living with us is not exactly how she envisioned her post grad year. It is not how we envisioned it either.

The rock throwing incident was a real eye opener for us. To us it meant that we were entering unchartered territories with her, as it was so out of character. To those that think we have let her get away with this before, no we have not. Also, if we are enabling her to behave this way, I wish I could realize HOW we are so I can change. We let her have her freedom, she comes and goes as she wants to (does not have her own car, but shares one with a sibling), we do not check up on her by any means, do not harass or nag her if she has not applied for a job that day. We try to let her figure this out on her own, while giving her food and shelter, while treating her like an adult. BUT, in return we do expect respect and consideration as a member of our family, and that is what we are not getting.

marite · July 25, 2009, 2:18pm

Sorry, but at the moment, you ARE just “another good-for-nothing freeloader” and all the schemes you have (grad school, internship) are just means of delaying having to take responsibility for your own financial well-being as opposed to well-thought out plans for getting a career. I hope you realize that grad school is not just a playground for would-be Peter Pans.

oldfort · July 25, 2009, 3:36pm

Op, I am typing on iPhone in the sun, so excuse me if there are typos. You are enabling her by not setting the boundary and expectations. In my opinion you are spoiling her because you feel sorry for her. She is that trump card to get away with her behavior. At minimum she should be expected to do chores around the house to earn her keep. Get a job, even a minimum wage job, volunteer work.

We live in the NE. D1 had 3 tutoring jobs in May. They already asked her to do the same over winter break. She also did an internship for no money to get something on her resume. She paid for all transportation. She was up everyday at 5:30 to get in by 7:30am. She knows she doesn’t want to come home to live after graduation, so she is doing all she can to make sure it doesn’t happen.

To all graduates without jobs, call your friends parents, your parents friends, whoever you know to give you that first job. If you signed up at temp agencies, call them everyday, don’t wait for them to call. I gave a job to my D1 friend because he really needed a job. To thank me, this kid has been coming to work from 6am to 6pm everyday. When someone REALLy needs a job, he’ll do what he has to do to keep it.

Disappointed in grad's behavior

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