disappointed, stressed and estranged

<p>Hope y’all don’t mind some venting, despite my infrequent posts. This is my kids’ last semester in college. S has been in pain/sick nearly the entire semester. I drove up nearly two wks. ago to take him to a dr. appt., instead rushed him to ER, and he remains in the hospital where he’s not been making good progress after emergency surgery. He has enough credits to graduate anyway, but plans to return next semester to pick up some courses needed for prof. certification. D has never phoned to let us know when her brother was ill, or the times that he spent two days in bed in pain. She shrugged it off as his usual odd hours or over reacting to the pain.</p>

<p>Last month, during S’s first hospital stay, dh & I told D that we need for her to pitch in and help out more. The kids live in a house we had built (largely at D’s request), about 2 hrs. from home. I even offered to hire a maid service, if she would get the house decluttered enough for someone else to clean. D never acted on our request. When I returned last wk., the trash hadn’t been taken to the street for a long time, the kitchen was disgusting, and the entire house was a mess. D said she was too busy w/ school & her job search, but hasn’t let that interfere w/ her ECs. I requested that she spend time over the weekend and left a detailed list on the refrigerator. It took over a week for those five items to be completed. Meanwhile, I was doing grocery shopping, meal prep and dishes after spending a full day tending to S at the hospital (Dh takes the night shift, as there’s a nursing shortage and we want someone with S 24/7.)</p>

<p>The first few nights when I returned to the house, D wanted to show me a web comic or talk about her job search; she never asked about S. When I pointed that out, she said she figured that I’d call her if something major happened. Since then, I have shown no interest in her chatter until she stops long enough to ask what sort of day her brother had. Dh is upset and saddened; his boss and coworkers have asked after S far more than D. It’s not as if they have a bad relationship or fight a lot; she just doesn’t seem to think of anyone else.</p>

<p>Earlier this week, I told D that she was to spend Friday afternoon tidying the house, and was pretty specific about my expectations. When I returned last night, it was clear that little had been done. While she’d cleaned her own bathroom and tidied her bedroom, the rest of the house was still cluttered and dirty. She thought it was good enough and resented my criticism, informing me that if she hadn’t agreed that the house messy before she would not have done anything at all. At that point, I told her that if she had failed to act on my instructions, she would have been looking for someplace else to live. I’m fed up with her attitude of entitlement and her lack of concern for others.</p>

<p>We’ve paid D’s way, other than her academic scholarships, including a car, a trip abroad, spending money, etc. She was expecting to live in this house for up to six months after graduation, while she saves her money to buy a small house of her own, and we’ve already deposited the $10K we promised each child as a graduation gift. Dh & I intended to sell the house immediately after graduation, but postponed our plans due to S’s health problems.</p>

<p>I realize that I am tired, stressed and probably not thinking clearly. But I am disappointed and frankly disgusted with D right now. She was not reared to be self-centered. We did all sorts of projects to help others when the kids were younger, and we’ve always made giving to others a priority. I was involved in the care of my aging parents for a long while, and we’ve done as much as possible for dh’s family. The kids didn’t lack for attention, either, as we homeschooled and dh included them on his business trips most of the time.
I feel as if I don’t know D any more, and I surely don’t like the person she has become. We’ve tried to stress to our kids that we care more about their character and happiness than about their academic achivements and eventual career success. D has chosen to focus on being the top in her class at the expense of all else, and looks down on people who are not as smart or academically gifted. Dh has tried to show her how his own career success has depended at least as much on his ability to work with others as on his expertise and skills, but she ignores him. We’ve both shown an interest in her job search, even since S’s hospitalization, so it’s not like she’s being ignored.</p>

<p>Dh commented last night that once S is okay, and we return home, we need to get serious about making long term care arrangements for ourselves. He never wants to count on our children, and especially not on D, for our care in our old age. He’s heartbroken. </p>

<p>I feel as if the only way I can get through the coming weeks will be to avoid interacting with D as much as possible. We exchanged very heated words last night, and if there’s another such discussion then I think we may have a long, if not permanent, estrangement.</p>

<p>Well, you may just have to tolerate each other until D graduates. Then, you must let her be on her own. Time to stop paying for anything. She will grow up fast when she has to be responsible for things, when she has a landlord that is not her mom, or when the house is HERS and therefore the consequences of not taking out the garbage etc are HERS.</p>

<p>One of my D’s is much younger than yours, but I can see how self centered she has become with my trying to provide everything for her to let academics come first. </p>

<p>I think alot of this is lack of maturity. I do think she will grow up, and that will help things.</p>

<p>Aw, I feel your pain. That is so sad, when you do so much for your children, and it feels like it was unappreciated. People can be self-centred and not even realize that they are. Maybe she will change. But maybe not. You have done much for your children, and there comes a point where you have to walk away. Don’t cut off communication ties, or do anything drastic that becomes difficult to fix, but I would certainly stop any financial support if I felt that I was being pushed around.</p>

<p>Right now you need to focus on getting your son healthy. That is probably adding to your feelings of frustration. It sounds complicated, that he had to have surgery, and is still not doing well. I do hope that you are able to stay out of any confrontations with your D, as you need all the peace and strength to tale care of your son and stay healthy yourself.</p>

<p>At this difficult time, it may be better to not get involved in any angry discussions with your D, as you are not in the best frame of mind. You may say something you regret later.</p>

<p>Hard to tell what’s going on. Your D may be acting defensive, may be in denial that anything serious is happening, may not be as heartless as it seems – I’d like to think that might be the case, anyway. You did raise her to have a heart, after all – I bet she does, just can’t show it right now.</p>

<p>The messiness may be upsetting you more now than it did before because you are so worried about your son. Those are just a couple of thoughts.</p>

<p>OK, I’m sure to get trashed here, but why are you expecting your D to take care of your S? Because she is older? Because that’s what women are expected to do? If you had 2 sons living in the same house would you expect the healthy son to do all the things you asked her to do? Kids in college often do live in pigpen like conditions, because their classes, jobs and social life ARE more important to them than how the place the live in looks to their parents. I think that your Son’s health condition should not have to suddenly be the focus of your daughter’s life. If her needs special care then that is not something that his sister should be EXPECTED to have to provide. Sorry to be harsh, but that’s my 2 cents.</p>

<p>In all fairness, Robi did not say that the D should be taking care of the S. All she said was that D could have phoned the parents to let them know S was ill. I know my D and S would have done that (and more) for each other.</p>

<p>No, she also asked her to clean up the house they both were living in.
“I told D that she was to spend Friday afternoon tidying the house, and was pretty specific about my expectations. When I returned last night, it was clear that little had been done.” While she’d cleaned her own bathroom and tidied her bedroom, the rest of the house was still cluttered and dirty. "</p>

<p>Both kids contribute to the mess in the public areas (kitchen, liv. & din. room, family room.) No one cleaned. S didn’t clean because he was in serious pain and ill. D had no such excuse. After many weeks of asking/reminding her to take care of normal chores, I told her that I expected her to spend her free time on Friday doing the cleaning. Dh & I are exhausted from our own health problems as well as from caring for S and from the stress of worry over his health. We nearly lost him last week.</p>

<p>This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with gender roles. That flabbergasts me. I would have expected the same from S were their situations reversed. This is about living up to commitments and responsibilities, as well as going the extra mile for family.</p>

<p>I think the problem is that your D is feeling and acting like she’s an adult on her own but you are still supporting her so you feel like you can call some of the shots. Don’t close the door on your relationship with your D. Lots of young adults go through a very self-absorbed phase where they seem selfish and uncaring, but really it is a temporary inability to see the needs of other people. I think that if you stop supporting her financially and keep the lines of communications open, your relationship can improve in time. Focus on your son’s health (and your own), come and vent here as much as you want, but don’t shut your D out of your life. If any communication leads to a confrontation right now, try to hold off on saying much to her until you are less stressed out.</p>

<p>The son will have to go home, and if the house is dirty, which may be BOTH kids fault, who knows, but to go home to dirt and mess is NOT the best way to heal…and D should be a bit more caring about the environment a healing person may be coming home to</p>

<p>As well, when there is a family crisis, sometimes you just suck it up and take care of business to do SOMETHING that can relieve the stress on others</p>

<p>The D sounds self centered and self absorbed at this place in her life- may be a phase, may not- but she should at least be courteous and show some concern for a family member</p>

<p>The mom/daughter dynamic can be rough</p>

<p>Vent away.
That’s one of the things this site is good for.
I wonder if much of your anger at your daughter is displaced fear/concern about your son? I don’t mean to sound like a pseudo/s psychologist, but I notice that when I am worried about someone I love, really worried, that I have little patience for others who aren’t feeling my concern, especially if I feel they should be. I would try to hold off on any decisions about your daughter and your relationship until your son is out of the woods, and feeling well. You may find that you see things differently.</p>

<p>I think the D deserves to be chewed out…if she is an adult as she sees it, she can take her lumps, as well</p>

<p>I love this attitude of, well I am an adult, you can tell me what to do, but I aren’t going to actually behave nicely, or in a caring way toward my family</p>

<p>Hogwash- this isn’[t a 13 year old for heavens sake, this is a woman, who should have some minimal caring for those around her</p>

<p>Seems D has shut others out already, not even showing concern for her sick brother…egad…</p>

<p>I just love this idea of, oh don’t say anything to the poor tender little girl, she isn’t a teen anymore, and as such she should hear the truth and shouldn’t be treated with kid gloves because she might withhold herself from her family- seems she is already doing that</p>

<p>And if young adults go through these self centered obnoxious “phases” its because people let them</p>

<p>Oh, they are young, they don’t have to act with decency is just a copout </p>

<p>And don’t talk about brain development, etc…when they want to they can take care of business…</p>

<p>We have to STOP making excuses for bad behavior and excuses because of age…</p>

<p>I’m not saying that the D’s behavior is acceptable, cgm. I’m just saying rather than cutting all ties with her, just stop supporting her financially and try to ignore her for awhile. Let her fend for herself and grow up a little more. Cutting ties with a close family member can be a hard thing to heal.</p>

<p>Robi:</p>

<p>I am so sorry you are going through so much right now! Your priority has to be your son and your H’s and your own health. While you are disappointed with your daughter, that relationship has to take a back seat.
I agree that this is not a gender thing. I have two sons, and if one behaved that way, I would chew him out. If one was sick, I would expect the other one to mention it to me and to enquire about his brother; to do more than his share of cleaning and tidying even though his brother might have been the messier one. I do not think that love and affection can be so neatly divided into 50/50. Still, for the moment, you have more than enough to cope with without trying to figure out what to do about your D.
Hopefully, your son will be able to come back from hospital soon. Will he be returning home with you to convalesce or will he be going back to the condo he shares with his sister? If the latter, for his sake, it may be best to hire a cleaning person to do the cleaning for a little while instead of depending on an unreliable and resentful daughter.<br>
Do whatever is least stressful for you and most helpful to your son right now. </p>

<p>Good luck to all of you!</p>

<p>what the OP said was that she was giving herself and D space- I didn’t see anything about WANTING to cut all ties forever, but mom is worried it may escalate to that</p>

<p>And maybe D needs to hear how much she has hurt her family with her selfishness, and so what if D gets angry…why are we so afraid to say what needs to be said</p>

<p>THe OP needs to say her piece, which she did already I gather, and then not help D with job search, explain that you have certain expectations at least for the sanitary enviornment of THEIR property- the young adults in the house don’t need to be pristine, but at least they need to take out the garbage, clear away dirty dishes, etc</p>

<p>Once pests start coming into a property, it can be a nightmare to get rid of them, and if garbage hasn’t been removed for a long time is just laziness- no matter how busy you are, you can remove garbage</p>

<p>I would also be concerned about the resale value of the home, have the kids kept up some basic care, or will work have to be done in order to sell the home? These are real, practical, grown up issues that D and S need to have been thinking about- and D, who is the healthy one of the tenents, needs to step up her game </p>

<p>She may be defensive and feel guilty for not doing much with regards to her brother, and that is why she is making excuses and lashing out, but now she needs to be told:</p>

<p>DD, it is not to late to repair our relationship, but I am not going to accept MY home being treated like a pigsty, I don’t expect perfection, but a least a safe, clean environment, and respect for my property. If necessary, we can start charging rent, so that the damage that has been done due to the mess, well that rent can go towards repairing the home for resale.</p>

<p>What happened with your brother has been very hard, and all your dad and I expected was some adult attitude and behavior from you. What happened in the past is done, we can start fresh, but you need to realize how hurt we are by your behavior and attitude, but we still love you and want our family to pull together to help each other.</p>

<p>The ball is in your court. We have two issues we are dealing with- your attitude towards your family and your attitude towards the home. You say you are an adult, well, it would be great to see that in action. </p>

<p>When your brother is out of the woods and the hospital, we are going to sit down as a family- ALL OF US- and discuss the house and your father’s and my plans for it, and what our expectations are with its maintenance and upkeep.</p>

<p>So, honey, we exchanged some pretty harsh words, and I need a bit of space because I was very hurt, but I am open to talk.</p>

<p>I have no advice, just a comment. I always find it so wrenching to read these family dramas on a forum, where you only hear one side of the story and you don’t know anybody involved. I always just hope that by telling the story it helps the person to think it through.</p>

<p>It sounds like a very stressful time for all of you. I think if it were me, I might try making no changes until my son gets home from the hospital and really starts to recover. Then I would go over with him in detail any ideas you can think of that will make his life easier for the next six months. If he finds his sister enjoyable to live with and a comfort to have around, then fine. If he finds that life with sister is kind of stressful these days, then help her find another place to live - which is probably better for her too, because she’s not learning any good habits right now about how to live with others. His healing might take a long time, and it is very likely to happen faster if his everyday life at home feels relaxed and comfortable, so you’ll want to try to arrange things as much as possible for his well-being. It might be that he and his sister get along pretty well from day to day and it would be harder for him to be on his own. If you do continue to subsidize her in living there, it might help you manage your own feelings to know that you’re doing it for your son’s recovery.</p>

<p>You might want to check out the book “Forgive for Good” by Fred Luskin.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That is such a great thought. I’m not saying that it is needed in this situation. But really, forgiveness is key in any successful relationship. It is not easy, but it is very cleansing. I find it hard to remember that myself.</p>

<p>It’s my engineering background, but I have a set of non-emotional responses.</p>

<p>Someone needs to get the house clean, and it’s clearly not going to be your daughter. Can she go spend the day at the hospital while you clean the house or work with the cleaning service? Your daughter is completely overwhelmed, it would appear, by the commitments she has to school and her job search. She may not be able to meet your standards; she may not know how to clean efficiently, either.</p>

<p>You’re terribly angry, and terribly worried. It might help to sit back and make a list of practical things. Before your son can come home, he needs a clean house, food in the refrigerator, and a plan for his care. </p>

<p>If I were you, I’d make straightforward requests of your daughter. “Can you please stay with your brother for three hours this evening or tomorrow evening while your father and I spend some time together? We haven’t had an evening along together since your brother went in the hospital.” </p>

<p>Your daughter may even be resentful of the time you’re spending with your son. You sound so uninterested in her job search, and yet for her it’s the start of her life as an independent adult. She looks for your counsel–and you won’t listen until she pays the fee of asking about her brother. Wouldn’t it be easier for you both if you gave her an update when you walked in the door and then asked about her day?</p>

<p>You seem to have rules for how your daughter should behave and how she should communicate with you. Where did these rules come from? Did your daughter have any say in them? Did she agree to them as part of having a house built for her?</p>