disappointed, stressed and estranged

Parent Cafe
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<p>Thanks to all of you; even the posts that are tough to read are helpful. I pop in and out while S is having tests done or napping. This laptop is my lifeline right now.</p>

<p>There’s no doubt that I am stressed. S has no idea how much pain I am in right now, because he’d insist that I return home. So I’ve been offering it up and putting a smile on my face before I enter his hospital room.</p>

<p>CGM, when I return to the “dorm house” I need to print your post and memorize it. My brain is too fogged to come with what I need to say to D.</p>

<p>I know that D is stressed about projects, upcoming finals and her job search. She probably is in denial about S’s health. She certainly looked stunned when I spelled out much of what he has been through, although we haven’t sugar coated anything in the last two weeks.</p>

<p>S is now feeling well enough to be getting antsy and bored, at least in between his long naps. He’s worried about his long term outlook, and I don’t have any answers for him. We’re hoping he was misdiagnosed last month, and that once he recovers from the surgery & massive infection, that will be the end of his pain.</p>

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<p>Take care of yourself, Robi. You haven’t let us in on details of your son’s situation, most likely for privacy reasons, but it does sound serious. This has to be an extremely stressful time for all of you.<br>
Please keep us posted on your son’s recovery. I wish you and your family the best.</p>

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<p>Maybe it would get your daughter’s attention if you took whatever chunk of her monthly allowance it would take to get a major cleaning of the house done by a professional cleaning service…</p>

<p>not just as a punishment, but maybe it has gotten so out of hand that she doesn’t even know how or where to begin?</p>

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<p>boysx3, I’m with you on that one. Unless I misread something, Robi is paying for the house, is paying for trips abroad, spending money, plus a 10K graduation gift and this D is too busy to take the trash out.<br>
I don’t get it. I work a ridiculous amount of hours and do many volunteer projects, etc., etc. I still find time to take the trash out and make my bed.<br>
I say take the money from her allowance and hire a cleaning service.
When she graduates from school, consider that 10K the last money you give her. Let her stand on her own two feet as an adult. If the house she is paying for herself is a mess, so be it. Don’t go visit her if it bugs you too much. But you are paying for this place and she can’t take the trash out. Are you kidding me?</p>

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<p>This may not be helpful, but it is something I’ve been mulling over in my mind for a long time now. So many young women seem very self-centered, but then most grow up to be self-sacrificing women. For guys the process is often reversed.</p>

<p>I think getting launched for women is so difficult that if boundaries aren’t put around the self young women melt into their families and family obligations because there is not as much support for young women as there is for young men.</p>

<p>I am completely sympathetic to the OP, and I can get very annoyed with my daughter at times for similar reasons. However, when I listen to her and see things through her eyes things look very different.</p>

<p>Robi: I am so sorry you are going through so much stress now. I hope things work out for the best. I think your feelings toward your daughter include a wish that she would behave better just for her own sake; you want her to be a better person. She probably is. Give yourself a vacation from parenting her right now and just concentrate on immediate issues. The character issues can get sorted out later.</p>

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<p>Call the realtor that you plan to use when you sell the house. Ask them for the name and price of a cleaner who can work around and maybe reduce the mess.</p>

<p>Not to defend your daughter, but I would be just about out of it if I were doing one shift at the hospital while completling my education and looking for a job. In fact, I don’t know how I could have added the shift during my senior year without messing up either or both academics and job prospects.</p>

<p>Also, one thing I learned to do as an adult was to compartmentalize. That means that if I have a kid at home with a fever of 103 and s/he has good care, I have to forget about it and get on with my work if I want to keep my job.</p>

<p>And, ashamedly now, I can remember being resentful of all of the attention and care my mom and her sisters gave to her mother - not because the attention wasn’t needed at the time but because the problems stemmed from diabetes and my grandmother had never even tried to take care of herself or follow the rules.</p>

<p>I hope your son heals and that your family situation heals also.</p>

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<p>That’s all I’m saying too. Stop giving D money, hire the help you need, ignore her for now instead of confronting her because the confrontation isn’t helping anything, even if she deserves it. Focus on your son’s health and yours. I am a very self-sacrificing person now but I remember times in early adulthood where I was so overwhelmed, I could only focus on myself because it was all I could handle. It may not have looked like this from the outside.</p>

<p>OP, I don’t know if this is the case with your D, but focusing on the negative things in your relationship may not be where you want to put your energy right now. Vent with us instead until your stress levels are lower. Again, not because your D necessarily deserves this courtesy, but because you don’t need additional stress right now and confrontation and loss of connection with a D is likely to increase stress. I think of the Ann Landers mantra, “Are you better off with her or without her?”. Maybe this week you feel you’d be better off without her, but I’d suggest you wait for a less highly charged time to make any such decision. Sounds like you did a good job raising your kids and I think you will see the results eventually.</p>

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<p>Robi, I don’t have any advice to give you. There are many people on here that have a great deal of insight. Sometimes it helps to vent. </p>

<p>I just want you to know I am sorry for what you are going through. You and your family are in my prayers.</p>

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<p>Sorry if this offends anyone, I have only skimmed all of the posts.<br>
Here are my 2 cents…
Unfortunately we as a society want our kids to have a better life, maybe she has too good of a life. Many friends in this situation----kid doesn’t work, get stipend, gas money, food money, etc, while parents drive older cars and sacrifice.
Mom…
My best wishes and hopes for your s.<br>
Talk to her. Tell her your fears and concerns. Treat her like an adult. Ask her does she understand that when and employer says do it, you do it or get fired. Ask yourself does she treat friends better?<br>
Finally, I have a saying for my children that might help:
Husband/wives may leave you,
Parents will die,
All u have from cradle to grave is each other.
Again my thoughts, hopes and wishes are with you.</p>

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<p>I can’t comment on the mother/daughter dynamic, I don’t have one. I can’t say much about the mess, my boys are very messy and probably wouldn’t take the trash out either, unless I had a cow. What does concern me is the seeming lack of concern your D has for her B. I have seen this twice before and both times the “offending” sibling was sat down and talked to about it. It was made very clear that they are supposed to stick up for each other and step in to help when neccessary, even if they don’t hang out or aren’t particuarly involved with each other lives, when things get tough they are expected to pull together untill things are better. You know what? In both cases things improved greatly after the talk and the expectations clearly laid out and can still be seen in both these cases many years later. Sometimes as parents we don’t think we have to be so specific about these things, we assume a certain behavior is natural.</p>

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<p>Whatever dh & I have said in the last 24 hrs. (& I don’t recall much through the brain fog) appears to have had an impact. Most of the house has been tidied, D came to visit S when dh & I switched places at the hospital, and D has a much better attitude this evening. She could only stay for a few minutes, because S was in pain and exhausted, and the visit was tiring. </p>

<p>Granny, perhaps I didn’t explain things clearly, but D has <em>not</em> been putting in a shift at the hospital. Dh & I have been doing that. That’s one thing I would not ask her to do, mainly for S’s sake. It’s humiliating enough for a young man to have his parents assist him with very personal needs; there’s no way he’d want his sister to do that.</p>

<p>I did (& still do) want to hire a cleaning service. However, the clutter was so bad that maids couldn’t do any real cleaning until someone clears the decks. With Thanksgiving approaching, I cannot get anyone to come next week. So we (meaning mostly D) will have to clean the house before S returns from the hospital. I intend to ask her to tackle S’s bedroom & bathroom tomorrow. After that, I hope to get a cleaning service to come in every other week. When D starts her new job in January, she will contribute to the cost.</p>

<p>dmd77, FWIW, I’ve shown a good deal of interest in D’s job search. At her request, I helped format and edit her resumes, and printed them on top quality linen paper. I’ve gone shopping for suits with her and helped her find work clothes & shoes online, too. This week, I simply got upset that she was so absorbed in her own life that she seemed to have no time to consider anyone else, including her brother. I chose to separate myself from her when she carried on about web comics and other trivia, and failed to asked whether or not S’s temp was still spiking or if he was making any improvement. Had I not done so, I likely would have said things that I’d later regret.</p>

<p>I’m calmer tonight, thanks in part to being able to vent here.</p>

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<p>You deserved a good loud vent. And you expressed one of those unspoken fears of parenthood ---- that we may not always likeour children as they become adults even as we do continue to love them.</p>

<p>Don’t forget, though, that throughout life, we are all works in progress and we’re going to disappoint sometimes. It’s good to hear that the blow up had some effect. And also good to hear that it didn’t escalate into something more far more hurtful and longlasting. Estrangement in families is a terrible thing.</p>

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<p>Robi, I am not sure if this is the case here; but I know I have a tendency too do much for my daughter. It seems the more I do the more “incompetent” she becomes. When I step back (and what I mean by that is that it is how I act -no big announcement), she steps up to the plate and accomplishes a lot more. On top of that, she now feels ownership and is a lot less resentful of ma. Bottom line is that when I reduce my expectations, she pushes herself more. I tend to think that this is often a mother-daughter dynamic for which mothers are more responsible.</p>

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<p>Robi - I guess what I wonder is if there were stipulations set up when you bought the house as far as what they are responsible for, including cleaning, maintenance, etc. I understand that you and your husband are providing a huge benefit to them by providing their own residence, but unless you set out some specific guidelines that you expect them to follow, then I think you have to allow them the freedom they would have if they lived in some other place you were renting for them. If they were living somewhere else that you didn’t own, would you be so upset with how they’ve chosen to live? Would you have the same expectations of cleanliness, tidyness, etc.? Also, if it weren’t your own kids living in the house, and instead you were renting to other college students, what would your expectations be? Would you be so concerned about dirty dishes, messy areas, etc. if it weren’t your own kids? </p>

<p>What it sounds like to me is… you and your husband bought this house as a sort of investment, but it was with your daughter’s strong urging (you might not have done so without your daughter’s strong push to do so). To them, they see it as a rental property like their college friends live in. All was well until your son got sick, and you had to spend so much time living in the house yourself. If you weren’t dealing with the trauma and fear associated with your son’s ordeal, these other things probably wouldn’t seem so magnified. If they were living in a rental property owned by someone else, and you were having to spend time there, the living conditions probably would not get under your skin so much.</p>

<p>However, many things changed… your son got sick, and you’ve now resorted to living in the house, and it’s now your home, too. When they first moved in, I’m sure no one considered that you all would be thrust into such a situation, and upon your arriving, I’m sure the last thing you cared to do was set up some house rules that respect your needs, too, while you’re there. I can see how both sides feel resented when, up until your son got sick, there were no established or spoken requirements for their living (correct me if I’m wrong here).</p>

<p>While you and your husband own this house, I suspect your daughter feels territorial of what’s supposed to be ‘her’ home. I’m just thinking… I would never think of setting housekeeping standards for my college-aged kids as long as I’m not living with them. However, once circumstances force me to move in with them, I certainly think it is reasonable to make some compromises and expect them to follow through with them.</p>

<p>D2 thrives to live in a chaotic, messy area. At home, I had to learn to close her bedroom door. I know she’s just as messy at college, but because I don’t have to live with it, I could care less how often she takes out her garbage, sweeps, vacuums, picks up, does laundry, etc. But if she were sick, requiring me to make a temporary residence with her, I would expect her to make some compromises more toward my standards of living.</p>

<p>A suggestion that gives her some control and encourages cooperation, especially for someone who seems so preoccupied with other tasks right now… put together a list of things that need to be done, and attach it to the refrigerator; ask her to look over the list, and give you an idea of when she can get specific things done, and ask her to put her own self-imposed deadline next to each task listed. Then as she finishes each one, she can cross it off. That way, she has ownership of the deadline, and knows she must manage her time to get these things done.</p>

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<p>I have been so guilty of this. I was a stay at home mom and felt that I had the time so do for everyone (including husband) so that they could concentrate on studies, sports, other ECs, job, etc. As a consequence all, including husband, are at various stages of incompetency! I asked husband to start the washer a few weeks ago (one we have had for four years) and he stood there dumbfounded as he realized he had never turned it on. Two of my kids keep fairly untidy apartments/houses, while one does seem to have it more together. Our d. lived in a condo we had purchased and I have to admit it riled me much more to see it a mess than the rental my older son lived in. Part of it is that it is “your” property and (at least I feel) the kids should respect that and keep it more to standards you agreed to (we did have long discussions on this prior to buying). Messiness is one this, but filth that attracts bugs, or dirtiness that will damage is another.</p>

<p>Robi,
You certainly are welcome to vent and I would probably be venting to strangers on the street. How stressful that your son is so ill and you are having problems of your own. I know that you just wanted to feel concern from your d. and that would have made all the difference. It sounds like maybe that has hit home for her.</p>

<p>Siblings ideally should be there for each other and I am happy to say that as mine have aged the support between them has increased. (Sons drove to where d. lives to sit with her recently after a romantic break-up) I was sorry she went through her heartbreak, but so pleased to see the boys eager to be there for her (without her asking).</p>

<p>Hang in there Robi. With all the stress, tiredness and outright fear, you have to be near the end of your rope emotionally. Try to let your d. know how much it means to you when she does help out, show concern or offer support. Maybe she needs a little positive feedback too and will even reciprocate.</p>

<p>Good luck with everything, will be thinking about you and your family.
K.</p>

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<p>I find it sad that parents have to maneuver around the 'sensitiveness" of adult children who aren’t stepping up to do the right thing</p>

<p>If I bought a house for my kids to use while they where in college, I would expect it to be maintained, with at a minimum the garbage being taken out</p>

<p>As for this, well, her territory and all that, hogwash- her brother was in the hospital, her parents had to come take care of him, and the D couldn’t even bother to make the place pleasant, and suck it up a bit and clean</p>

<p>My Ds would be embarrassed if they didn’t bother taking care so that a relative had a clean neat place to stay</p>

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<p>Thanks, y’all. Things are somewhat better. D is doing chores, at least when asked, and once in a while thinks to offer. Dh & I both try to give her positive feedback, and to pay attention to what’s going on in her life, too. I did fnd a cleaning service that I’ll try out next week. D will have to clear the remaining clutter by Monday so the real cleaning can be done. At least her job search is over. </p>

<p>Our greater concern now is S, who is about as non-compliant a patient as I’ve ever seen. I gently pointed out to him this evening that if he doesn’t begin making progress by Monday, then his doctor will likely want him to return to the hospital. It’s not that I am unsympathetic; I’ve had way too many operations and remember the post-op pain all too well. But he has to walk a little, and he has to eat; IV nutrition is not sufficient. Dh is especially exhausted now that he has to take care of S’s IV meds around the clock. I cannot believe that the home care nurses are only sent three times a week. That will have to be increased if S is to stay out of the hospital. I’m now on an Rx that fogs my brain too much for me to feel comfortable administering IV meds, so I’ll have to make sure that Dh gets some naps this weekend. It’s going to get tougher when he returns to work on Monday and has to commute nearly 4 hrs. a day. I go in for tests next week, and possibly the week after, to learn if yet another operation will be necessary. My Christmas/ anniversary/ birthday gift for 2007-08 may be a home care aide.</p>

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<p>I didn’t say the parents had to maneuver around the sensitiveness of the children. I was pointing out that I could easily see how the situation evolved to the point it was at, given the nature of how quickly the family dynamics changed when the son got sick. I’m sure when the OP first arrived, the last thing she was probably thinking about was, “Wow, I think I’ll nag my daughter for a while because I’m bored.” I’m sure it was about survival, being at the hospital, and returning to the kids’ house to sleep. As the son began to come out of the woods, and mom was not so distracted by an acute crisis and had been there longer, she probably began to notice that the untidyness wasn’t the result of catching the daughter on a bad day (or week). Which is when she probably then began to say something to the daughter. And the daughter didn’t respond the way the mother liked immediately, but now is realizing the seriousness of the situation. </p>

<p>Different people have different standards of living, and some don’t care about appearances of where they live. This is probably how they’ve been living all along in this house, and it’s been working for them, but now they were thrown into this sudden, unexpected situation and have their parents living with them. I just don’t think that having a clean, neat place to stay is at the top of the priority list for all college kids - many think how they’re living isn’t so bad, when by parent’s standards, it’s a disaster.</p>

<p>The daughter didn’t ask for her brother to be so sick as she was in the middle of a job search and graduating. Or to put it better, we’re not talking about an event they anticipated where daughter could have tackled the house cleaning over time while also managing her job search and school. Everyone was caught off guard and sounds like they each kind of functioned day-to-day as their resources allowed.</p>

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<p>Robi, glad to hear back from you. I do hope son continues to gain strength and that your tests results are good. Hope you and your h. can grab some rest whenever you can–keep up your own nutrition too as you work on son’s. Positive thoughts coming your way.</p>

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<p>Prayers, good wishes, positive vibes - I’ll take whatever you’ll send our way with gratitude. Things have not gone well, and S will have additional surgery late today. I’m staying at the house to deal with a plumbing emergency and some other problems, and to give Dh a break from worrying about me. I go in Friday for tests, and am hoping that it’s just a bunch of old scar tissue and adhesions that we can ignore for a while longer. If not, I’ll ask if they can at least put me on the same floor as S, do that Dh doesn’t have far to go between rooms. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, S is bummed that he’s very unlikely to be able to participate in graduation next month. His univ. continues to be supportive and sympathetic, which has been a great relief. He can “walk” in the spring, even though his diploma will be awarded in Dec. Most likely, Dh will attend graduation with D, and then we’ll all celebrate at home. At least that’s the hope now. </p>

<p>S did not appear to take the surgeon’s warnings & caveats too seriously last night, and doesn’t seem to think that the worst case scenarios were outlined for anything other than legal reasons. We’re all going along with that thought and talking about the most positive outcome.</p>