Disciplinary action against HS students?

<p>hi parents:</p>

<p>I'm a high school student myself and i would appreciate some opinions from you guys as adults and parents.</p>

<p>Recently someone in my region has been expelled from his HS for something he did OUTSIDE of his HS. It was nothing serious (not robbery, killings, etc) but i do not know the nature of what he did (different HSs).</p>

<p>Well, even though i don't know him, this got me thinking:</p>

<p>Do you think disciplinary action can be taken against students for misconduct outside of school?</p>

<p>I'm personally against the idea...but I'd rather hear more of your opinions since I'm not sure if I'm right....</p>

<p>any input is welcomed!</p>


<p>please voice your opinion. i'm very confused now .....any help is much appreciated!</p>

<p>thank you!</p>

<p>It's difficult in the absence of details, but, yes, I can think of things that someone could do outside of school that should lead to expulsion.</p>

<p>thanks WashDad.</p>

<p>where and how will you draw the line?</p>

<p>can you be more specific maybe?</p>

<p>Technically; the school shouldn't have punitive authority such as expulsion or suspension over what a student does outside of school property, functions, or direct representation. However; the school is ultimately responsible for the safety as well as the emotional well being of all their students. If the school feels that in some way this student's actions outside of the school; or that the attention brought on by their actions could bring unwanted harm physically or emotionally to the rest of the student body, then they should have a right to keep that student out. They should however be required to provide a school funded tutor so the student can continue their education.</p>

<p>Examples of these obviously include all the crimes that included physical violence. That could pose that student as possibly unstable and violent towards other students. If the student was involved in drugs, that is a reason. You could be inviting that student to either directly contribute to the delinquency of the other students or present the impression that there are no repercussions for such actions. Other examples could be acts of indecency; internet pornography; domestic abuse; and some others. Each of these conditions pose a potential influence on some of the other students at the school. It is the school's responsibility for the welfare of ALL the students. There are times they could be justified.</p>

<p>Yihan, I'm from the same state as WashDad. I'm not sure if there are state-wide policies or if each district in our state has its own one, but in our SD the schools have no jurisdiction over offenses commited outside of the SD property or school-sanctioned events (eg. district swim meet at UW Husky Pool). Here is an example. A few years ago, at a pick-up football game in a county park, approximately 200 people from two rival HS in our SD got into a major brawl. Police were called, and the school principals were notified. No one was suspended and/or reprimanded for this fight at their HSs, but I'm sure some kids got into trouble with the cops. Had a similar fight erupted on the school's field, a lot of suspensions would have followed.</p>

<p>But just as Christcorp said, schools can bar someone with a history of violent behavior from entering the school's property if there is a consent that the safety of the other students can be compromised.</p>

<p>I'm also a high schooler, but let me tell you about something that happened at my school 2 years ago.</p>

<p>A student at our school (who was also a child of a teacher) and some of his friends made a fake Myspace for the principal. It was all just for fun and I'm sure they weren't trying to do anything malicious, but they ended up getting expelled. This was a big controversy at my school and even people who made comments on the fake myspace like "i hate you Ms. ******" ended up getting suspensions. I thought those expulsions were not warranted and they were not even during or at school. I also thought those kids that left comments had the right to free speech, but they too even got suspended. This practical joke got out of hand, and the principal did as much as she could to punish these kids the fullest extent.</p>

<p>My son's [private] HS made a policy, after some drunken parties, that if a student hosts a party and drinks are available or served to underage minors, and the school finds out about it, the student , and any other children in the family at the school will be expelled. Gave some parents and students something to seriously think about. It was a badly needed wakeup call.</p>

<p>A large group of kids from our high sch. were at a big party (drinking) last year. The police showed up. Sixteen citations were issued for underage drinking. There were at least 50 kids at the party but many ran when the police came. Of the sixteen, three were football players (who had never been in any trouble before). The football players were suspended from playing the homecoming game the following week (including all h/c activities like pep rallies, etc) garnering much negative press in the local newspaper/TV. </p>

<p>. All the rest suffered no consequnces from the school, including one girl who was allowed to compete that same week (on campus) in the sch. "Miss Smart Talented Girl" pageant for the chance to advance in a countywide scholarship competition. Fair? </p>

<p>I don't believe a public school systems should be allowed to mete out random punishments however they see fit for actions that occurred off school property and not during school hours.</p>

<p>students represent their schools and if they do something immoral &/or illegal, it is within school jurisdiction to add additional discipline if stated in school/district rules beforehand & not just something that is applied unevenly or at a whim.</p>

<p>Companies do the same thing- for example many now do urine tests for drugs and some even monitor employees tobacco use.
USATODAY.com</a> - Trend: You smoke? You're fired!</p>

<p>I think that if evidence develops from events outside of school that indicates that a student might be a danger to others, the school system has the obligation to provide the student with an education in a manner that takes place outside the school building. This is not a disciplinary measure; it's a safety precaution.</p>

<p>Beyond that, I think the school should mind its own business. Policies for punishing students in school for activities unconnected to school are wildly inconsistent. For example, I know of an instance in which students who were caught drinking at a private party outside of school hours were stripped of their roles as officers of school organizations and made ineligible for extracurricular activities. But in another instance, a student who committed the arguably more serious offense of leaving the scene of an accident suffered no repercussions at school.</p>

<p>I think it would have to depend on circumstances.
Many sports teams for example- require that students not attend drinking parties etc and if caught will be suspended or expelled from team if not from school.
Leaving the scene technically could be dependent on circumstance.
For example my husband was recently in an accident on a bridge ( where lanes were more narrow than a freeway. He got out of car & noting that the truck was from a company that was a few blocks away, told the driver that he would meet them at the business. ( he also was motivated by another driver of a vehicle who was not involved but stopped at the same time who apparently was threatening him- H, wanted to get away from other driver)
Anyway- he went to the other business to report accident etc, but they had already called police and he was arrested for leaving the scene.
( knowing where the accident occured- on a narrow bridge- high speed- two way- no divider- rush hour traffic- I wouldn't have stopped there either- that could have been a much bigger accident. I asked him why didn't he stay in his car & use his cell phone, he had forgotten all about it)</p>

<p>Not an excuse I know, but a circumstance where minors were drinking ( and I imagine driving) would raise even bigger red flags.</p>

<p>My children's private school had a clear policy regarding disciplinary action including expulsions that could/would be taken for misconduct outside of school activities, school hours, school premise, etc. Even summer time was "fair game" for repercussion if students were caught in serious misconduct. The incident I remember best was a drug possession arrest out of state for which the offending student was not allowed to enroll for senior year. May seem harsh, but at least everything was in black and white. </p>

<p>It must be harder for public schools. If you didn't like this private's policy, you didn't have to enroll, but publics don't have that option...</p>

<p>Re post #7:</p>

<p>Creating a fake myspace page for the principal was "just for fun" and not "malicious"? </p>

<p>Give me a break.</p>

<p>When someone creates a fake myspace page for YOU and uses it to blacken your reputation amongst everyone you know, so that all the punks are sniggering at you in the halls every day at school or work, then come back and say this was harmless.</p>

<p>This reminds me of the ongoing case where a kid created a page for a middle school principal in which he stated in very graphic terms that the principal had had sex at the school with not only another administrator, but two other underage boys. He used names. And very graphic language. He was expelled for the remainder of the school year.</p>

<p>His parents are now suing the school and claiming that they didn't have the right to expel their vicious brat because this was done outside of school. Personally, I'd like to see those their son slandered sue them and take them for every single cent they have, plus their house and legal fees. Unless, of course, they are willing to withdraw their lawsuit and make public apology to the administrators and the kids. And their brat should serve out his suspension and keep his nasty little mouth shut.</p>

<p>It really ticks me off when a certain type of vicious smartass publicly humiliates other people.</p>

<p>We're in the same school district as PackMom, different high school. Although I don't believe the school really made public the details from their point of view, there was a similar "big party" episode in the fall, that included most of the football team, and lots and lots of others. It became a school issue when the parents filed a "missing persons" report...we got an automated phone call early in the morning, saying that a 15-yr-old student was missing, last seen the previous night....etc. He was "found" later that morning passed out under some bushes at the house where the party had been held).</p>

<p>I don't believe there were wide-spread suspensions, but I believe it ended the football season for several players. I understand the need for privacy, etc., but I'm one who wishes that the fact that students have been suspended, or disciplined like this (and, in general, why) would be publicized....it would be a little more eye-opening to the parent community as a whole. As it is, it's the "rumor" mill where we get our info.</p>

<p>Agree w/ your comments, consolation. There were always those parents who stood up for their kids, no matter how vicious, mean, rude, etc. their kids were. Luckily, I was never (or haven't been yet!) in this position to see what I would do. I'd tend to think that H and I would support the punishment for something so incredibly stupid.</p>

<p>Question is consolation,is how much of a kids personal life can the school punish them for? Can they kick out a kid who bad mouths the teacher verbally, if the student is off of campus? How far do you want the school to reach into your home?</p>

<p>There are lots of ways to punish people, but to me, expulsion for activities off campus are unwarranted.</p>

<p>my D goes to a private HS, and the school claims it can punish a student if the do things like the parites, drinking, etc...seems almost everytime they have used the "long arm" they back track- kid gets let back in, suspension cancelled etc...so on paper and using fear, it looks good, in reality, eh not so much....</p>

<p>I would disagree that it is using fear to control behavior. At least at the school I am familiar with.
Rather in the case of a private school, which can select ( and select out) students- a code of behavior can be more rigid than in a public school which may be open to more lawsuits etc. Anyway that is the reasoning to explain why some staff gets moved around rather than fired after inappropriate behavior.</p>

<p>My older Ds private school, did expel students in our experience, not that I knew all the ins and outs, but I think in some cases the school perhaps wasn't the best place for the student at that time.</p>

<p>And in a private school, the school isn't obligated to bend over backwards to accomodate the student, at least in our highly competitive area, there are too many students willing to take the slot for the school to have to do that.</p>

<p>However- one of her friends for example- wasn't expelled but he did have issues & took a leave and was enrolled in one of those behavior management boarding schools. ( a good one apparently), he returned after a year to graduate & went on to college and did well.
He is now a high school teacher!</p>

<p>A private school in my area had a situation where three high school students--two boys and a girl--made a video which consisted of the threesome engaging in behavior that is usually best conducted in private. They then told schoolmates about the film, and showed it. The film was not filmed or shown on campus. The three students were expelled.</p>

<p>i think disciplinary actions should be carried out not by individual schools, but by states/governments...is that a good idea?</p>

<p>like instead of suspension issued by a school, we can have some serious offenders spend 3 days in state correctional facilities</p>

<p>is that good or bad?</p>

<p>Well in our district if a student breaks the law- then they go to jail.
Isn't that what they do in your area?
For instance at one school last year a student and an accomplice raped a developmentally disabled girl ( on school property).
She told an adult, and the adult reported it to the school.
It was toward the end of school year & , the principal expelled the students, but did not contact the police. His excuse was that they had dealt with the problem
The girl filed a report with the police a week later.
One of the students has reenrolled with the school district, but the other student was arrested and has been in jail for the past 9 months ( Im assuming he had gone to court)</p>

<p>School staff are not equipped to do investigations at that level- I believe it is procedure to always report such incidents to the police and they will decide what is worth investigating.</p>