Discipline Advice for 16 year old son.

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I’ve posted about my S before. He has an executive function disorder and is now on meds, but is very functional and also holds a part-time job. Academically, he’s definitely trying harder. Still not perfect (in terms of doing all of his assignments and putting his best effort into everything) but a tremendous improvement. I need help with discipline. I’m so tired of being the mom who takes everything away and has to be angry to get anything done.</p>

<p>His room is a disgusting mess. I gave him a months notice to clean, but the cleaning ladies come every other week and if his room is a mess, they don’t clean it - so that was our deadline. He didn’t meet it, so as promised, I bagged up all of his clothes that were on the floor. He was still able to go a week with the few things he had left in his room. He takes a great deal of pride in being “well dressed” and his friends frequently comment on how much people like his “style” - so I thought clothes were important to him. In order to get his clothes back he has to work two hours with me (to make up for the two hours I spent cleaning his room) and finish cleaning out the stuff that’s left in his room (which is pretty minimal). Instead, he does nothing. He also wants his permit (failed the permit test the first time) and I said no permit until his room is clean. Nothing. </p>

<p>Last night, he came home from his night out and agreed to get up at 10 today to play his sport at 11. At 10 he began to beg me not to go because he wanted to rest up for tonight since it’s homecoming. Prior to signing him up for his sport (which is off season - only one day per week play time) and paying, he agreed to go and stated that he wanted to go. I had to basically throw a fit, tell him I would not take him to buy flowers and take away his suit in order for him to go. He finally went. I told him he was grounded next weekend because of all of this. </p>

<p>As far as I know, he is not drinking or using drugs. He’s social and clearly is involved with the girls but I do not get the sense it’s a problem or has gone too far. He has nice friends and he presents himself well. What am I doing wrong? What else can I do? I’m sad and frustrated.</p>

2

<p>I don’t think you are doing anything wrong other than letting his typical teenage-boy behavior upset you too much.</p>

<p>My S is pretty much the same way about his room, and rather than get myself upset, I decided to handle it two ways: 1) Since I am the only one who seems to care if his room is tidy or not, I spend about 3 minutes each morning cleaning it up myself. If you do this every day, it stays passable. 2) If I don’t feel like cleaning it up, I shut the door (which I don’t like to do because the windows in his room add some nice light to the house).</p>

<p>Regarding the sport, since he did agree to sign up and you did pay, he needs to honor that. If he doesn’t go, then have him pay you back.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

3

<p>I have a girl, not a boy, but her room is a disaster area. It really bothers my husband but I decided to pick my battles and a messy room (that I don’t have to live in) is not something I want to fight. If she wants to live in filth, as long as there are no bugs or rodents, I’m okay with that. Every now and then my husband tells her to clean her room and she cleans it up some but it is never all the way clean. </p>

<p>This is just my two cents but by not cleaning his room, he gets you to clean it for him. Sounds pretty good to me. Yes, he now has fewer clothes but it sounds like he has enough to get by (he’s not having to wash them all every two days) so he’s not being punished too much.</p>

4

<p>Regarding his clothes – if you still have most of them in the bag, at least he can’t leave them on the floor of his room. :slight_smile: Even if he just sticks with the small number he has, it seems like it can’t leave as much of a mess. Are you doing his laundry? I would stop that right away, make him do his own. Or set a rule that if he gets the clothes into the hamper you will wash them, but not the rest. Sometimes humor works (I have teased D2 about controlling every laundry basket in the house because they are full of her clean clothes she has not put away, then I request that she please put them away and it happens).</p>

<p>My daughters are also slobby when it comes to their rooms. Just yesterday I had to tell D2 (who also has an executive function disorder) that I would not drive her to a friend’s house (for a trip to friend’s cabin) if she did not pick up all the CLEAN clothes she had strewn over her floor in a fit of dressing herself recently. Told her they had to be folded or hung properly, and I would check. I didn’t yell at her, just told her matter of factly about an hour before we left that this HAD to be done or I would not transport her. It worked… so something to think about is whether you need to yell (sometimes I am sure the answer is yes), or just quietly threaten. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>We have the same argument some Saturday’s about D2’s sport. It is not optional… she goes. Faking being sick, etc. does not get her off the hook (she has tried everything). She likes it when she gets there, even she admits that.</p>

<p>I have never grounded my kids. I prefer to use more “point” specific punishments (can’t go to the dance, can’t have a friend over, won’t take you to the bookstore for the new book you want, not buying you the art supplies you want until…). Bribery is key in parenting, IMHO. :D</p>

<p>I guess what I am getting at is that this is sort of typical teenage stuff. You have some levers (transportation being a big one). I won’t let D have friends to the house if her room and bathroom are a disaster. Hang in there… it sounds like your son is making some progress in important areas like academics and holding a part time job, which is great news.</p>

5

<p>Close the door. Is it really worth the fight. Also, for a child with executive function difficulties, a MONTH deadline is WAY too much. Also, “clean your room” is way too much. Start with, please hang up your clean clothing. Once that is done, please pick up the trash on the floor and put it in the garbage can. Then, please dust your room. Break it into small pieces that are easy to handle…but then again, close the door and let him be responsible for cleaning it on his schedule—but if he needs clean clothing and you did laundry already–too bad, so sad, wash your own.</p>

6

<p>I find rewarding the good, and yes sometimes you have to look for it, a more helpful approach, can be simple things like showing initiative putting the garbage out without a reminder, choosing to study and prepare for tests, managing time well, etc… oh and not going into my 16 yr old’s room too often helps too ;)</p>

<p>I have always redefined and called my s’s ADHD, having a “turbocharged brain” so he sees all the positives of his differently wired brain, and it gives us a way to point out the wonderful and challenging behaviors that are part of the turbo charge. Also helps us to see it as a challenge to be addressed proactively, rather than a disorder to be hampered by, or to use as an excuse for not finding workarounds. </p>

<p>I too find it sad when I get into a cycle of being angry and setting limits, because it detracts from the relationship, and I much prefer enjoying his humor and stories…and I hope to keep those coming as he’s my third, and I see the door opening through which he’ll soon leave for college as he’s off at an SAT prep today…I want to enjoy his visits back home and an open warm conversation as he moves into his own life as I have been very fortunate to have forged with my older two children, a college senior d and a college grad s…</p>

7

<p>I know the solution. My house is cluttered and my son’t bedroom is the neatest, cleanest place in the house because he doesn’t like all the clutter in the rest of the house.</p>

8

<p>I’ve survived three boys…his behavior is typical.</p>

<p>As far as showing up for sports…it’s a commitment, he must keep it. Coaches and teammates depend on his being there.</p>

<p>As far as the messy room? With one son, I let it go, keeping his door closed, because it did not inconvenience ME. Meaning that he could still function, finding his own things in a timely fashion as necessary.</p>

<p>Another son was also a slob, but his slobbiness kept him from functioning–he could never find anything and was always running late, or going without things he needed.</p>

<p>So I started giving him deadlines…if you do not clean your room by Sunday night, on Monday I will clean your room, and you will not like it…</p>

<p>I would clean his room, make his bed, bag up all the stuff I found all over…and keep it.
He would have to survive with what he had left. No calculator? Learn how to do computations by hand. No clothes? Your problem.</p>

<p>If his room reverted to pigsty status, I would clean it again–and remove more of his stuff.</p>

<p>I only did laundry that made it to the bins in the laundry room.</p>

<p>Eventually there was like nothing left…and he figured out that he wanted his stuff back.</p>

<p>He was allowed to earn his stuff back by doing 2 hours of chores around the house (vacuum the whole house, wash and vacuum the cars, clean out the garage, clean out the crawl space…) to get back one bag—and I would just choose one random bag and give it to him, so he didn’t know what he might be getting back, whether it was the immediate stuff he wanted or not. I warned him to put everything away or he would lose it all again.</p>

<p>Usually I had everything back in a few days…and we repeated the cycle.</p>

<p>Eventually he caught on that it was easier to put things away than to earn them back.</p>

<p>And I learned that he had way too much stuff. You don’t mind losing the use of 3 sweatshirts if you have a zillion more…</p>

9

<p>I always remember what my sister told me:
“Enjoy your son while you still can, there is an expiration date of his dependency on you.”</p>

<p>she also said,
“If you can treat you son like ‘other’ people’s child… then you will be able to enjoy him better for his sake.”</p>

<p>I could be nervous on a lot of things when dealing with my only son (high function autism) - germs, tidiness, stubbornness, transition, moral, health, etc. The list goes on. I also know that the minute I am ‘into’ the levels of details with him, his ears shut off.</p>

<p>Therefore, if he is just other people’s child, I can sit back and find the good parts of his decisions and actually enjoy what he does, choses, or not to choose.</p>

<p>A messy room may well be any child’s paradise, because it is the only place on earth that welcomes him ‘unconditionally’ - it is his ‘safey’ net. He won’t go to grandma’s room and mes it up, nor would he be able to throw things around in his boss’ house. There is a sense of humor in a child’s messy room. 10, 20 years later, he will actually laugh at his ‘choices’ of arranging his room. ha ha</p>

<p>I love parents who can live with their children’s messy choices - as long as rodents don’t learn where about his room is.</p>

<p>After all, kids will grow up and move out… After that day, parents can do anything to that safety nest… sanitizing, remodeling, etc - that is the expiration date of a messy room and childhood.</p>

<p>Love</p>

10

<p>I like boysx3 idea. I was going to suggest starting at the other end. Give him his bed and desk, and some clothes. Take everything else away. If his room is clean, he can earn stuff back.</p>

11

<p>ccwelove makes another good point… it is all temporary. D1 (who is a slob and a half) graduated from college this spring and got an apartment in another city. I made her really sort her stuff in her room when she was home after graduation, and we packed up her furniture in a shipping cube and emptied her bedroom in August. It is EMPTY. I had the carpet cleaners come in, and this week have been setting it up as a guest bedroom. I liked it better when I couldn’t see the floor for her stuff, but at least she was around to make the mess… :(</p>

12

<p>I basically agree also…my breaking point was when the messy room started making it impossible for him to get to school/get to sports practice/get to ensemble practice/get anywhere on time and with the needed items.</p>

13

<p>If he has EF disorder, it must be so difficult to plan and time-manage cleaning his room. There must be some way to work with him. Agree with SteveMA that a month lead time and a general directive must seem like Everest.</p>

<p>When D1 left for college last fall, her floor was ankle deep in clothes. I left it that way. Jump ahead, through breaks, to summer- it stayed that way. Back at school now, still a mess. She does change her sheets and wash them. She is responsible for her own laundry and does it. While she was home, her friends came over and grimaced, no change. </p>

<p>Do I care? Yes. I a big on them learning "life skills."But, this is one of her few ways of not listening to me. She’s cooperative around the house (grimaces, but does it,) I make my kids help clean up after dinner, do weekend chores, both worked this summer, made it on time, every single day- when I add it up, she’s in the positive. </p>

<p>We quit doing “you can’t.” We changed to “you can, when…” We often let it be bite-sized tasks, 15 minute efforts. The thing about the brain processing positives is actually something discovered by psychologists- many/most of us understand and remember better what is verbally phrased in positives. And, if we can try to find and absorb the positives in our kids, that works on us, too. </p>

<p>I remember seeing what Boysx3 notes on one of the supernanny shows- tried it and both said, fine, give the stuff away. Good luck. No kids are really easy in all ways.</p>

14

<p>I have one neat boy, one messy girl, and one messy boy. </p>

<p>Some of the tactics I’ve tried over the years are:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>“Pick up 10 things from your floor today and hang them up/put them in drawers.”</p></li>
<li><p>If I know my child has plans that evening, I’ll say, “You can’t go to Andrea’s house until your room is clean.” (need to give plenty of advanced warning)</p></li>
<li><p>Never threaten something if you are not willing to follow through. Even though I bought a nice suit for my son to wear for homecoming, “I” would also be embarassed if he were the only one in his group without a suit. </p></li>
<li><p>As far as missing a sporting event, you might say, “If your coach gives you permission to miss today, it’s fine with me” or “I paid $200 for 10 hockey sessions. Therefore you owe me $20 for skipping a practice today.”</p></li>
<li><p>Threaten to come in with a camera and take pictures. </p></li>
<li><p>Enlist the help of your husband. It’s hard for one parent to do most of the disciplining.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck and don’t let it stress you out too much.</p>

15

<p>Honestly, unless he has rotting food or something in his room, I’d shut the door and let it go. As the messy child, I have never understood my mom’s obsession over MY room being clean. We used to get into many arguments about it until I was 14 and she just closed the door. We made an agreement that no food would be left in the room and beyond that it was my issue to deal with as long as she didn’t see it. I’m a fully functioning, successful, independent adult, but my room in my apartment is still a mess. It’s who I am and that’s that. I’m one of those people that just honestly has better things to do than clean. Neat people don’t get it- messy people do :). </p>

<p>As for the sport- is this the only day that this has happened? If so, I would let it go. Follow through with the grounding and then let it go. Even as an athlete, I understand wanting to rest up for homecoming. It’s a big deal at some schools. Remember, teens have a hard time seeing the big picture. I like toledo’s idea of making him pay you back for every game/practice he misses. </p>

<p>Really, he sounds like a completely normal 16 year old. Girl or boy. Don’t throw fits. Teens model what they know works. They also know what works and what doesn’t- how far they can push. Don’t let him push you around. You are still the parent. But, IMO, just know which battles to pick. I don’t think the room issue is one of those battles that’s really worth fighting. </p>

<p>Good luck. He’ll be gone before you know it and you’ll likely miss him.</p>

16

<p>"Honestly, unless he has rotting food or something in his room, I’d shut the door and let it go. As the messy child, I have never understood my mom’s obsession over MY room being clean. We used to get into many arguments about it until I was 14 and she just closed the door. "</p>

<p>Because patents have worked hard for the furniture, etc. and it’s hugely disrespectful and entitled not to take care of things that are given to you, Romani. Expecting a basic level of neatness is not over the top. Live in a pigsty on your own dime.</p>

17

<p>Well, PG, somehow it seems to have worked out just fine. Somehow, the other parents on here who’ve had messy kids don’t seem to feel disrespected. My apologies if they do. </p>

<p>If that’s the case, stop buying your kid things.</p>

<p>Oh, and FWIW, my room was just MESSY. Always took care of my things. Still have all the furniture- and it’s in good shape- that my parents were given/bought (as most of it was not bought by them). 20 years later and I’ve taken a lot of it with me because it’s in that good of shape. Just because I have a messy room doesn’t mean I was disrespectful of my parents or what I was given. I just am a messy person. </p>

<p>Different strokes for different folks. Worked for us, never said it worked for everyone. Never said it worked for you.</p>

18

<p>What finally made my son clean up his room (and his act) was a girlfriend. He was embarrassed to have her see the pigsty we’d been living with for months.</p>

<p>My daughters went on cleaning cycles when they were home, but this summer I spent several days cleaning their rooms and throwing out bags and bags of trash and donating more bags of usable clothing that hadn’t been worn in years. (They had been previously warned that I would be doing this.) The price of having to replace cosmetics that were apparently still wanted was well worth the (short lived) satisfaction of having the house clean from floor to ceiling for the first time since…</p>

19

<p>I think getting married/living with someone, and then eventually having kids makes a lot of twenty-somethings get tidier. It is just yucky to get back into a bed that wasn’t made after a while, a made bed feels so much nicer… also annoying to step over someone ELSE’s stuff all the time (so it makes you realize that maybe you better pick up yours as well). There is a certain realization people get as they grow up that NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF IT BUT YOU. I actually think that is a big part of becoming a grownup. :)</p>

<p>And once people have kids, it becomes sort of a safety/sanitary thing. Plus having adults over to your place, it can be super embarrassing if a neighbor stops by and your house is a sty… you get tired of not being able to entertain because the house is not clean. And eventually realize that it really is easier to keep it tidier to start with than massively clean up every once in a while.</p>

<p>Just saying that most people eventually pull it together on this front, but teenagers don’t have a lot of incentive. Romani, even you will probably do so eventually!</p>

20

<p>int, maybe, but even living on my own dime, with a SO, hasn’t caused me to do it. My dad’s nearly 50 and still hasn’t figured it out ;). I’ve been buying my own furniture, clothes, and everything else since I was in my mid teens and still am messy. </p>

<p>I manage to keep the rest of the apartment clean. It’s just my room that I can’t manage. </p>

<p>As for the made bed, even my neat mother never makes her bed. She sees it as pointless as I do. Again, different strokes :)</p>