Discriminatory? Or normal and reasonable?

Parent Cafe
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<p>So, we have been looking forever for a new rental property in D’s college city. Or it seems like forever, anyway - actually it’s probably been a few months. </p>

<p>We didn’t get one property we liked because we have one cat, and the owner’s wife is allergic. I made lots of counter offers - I offered a huge pet deposit, offered to do all the maintenance myself, etc. - nothing worked. We didn’t get another one because I don’t have “enough” credit. (I have zero debt except for a mortgage on a home that is almost paid off, an excellent credit score, and an awesome debt-to-income ratio.) We have turned down several ourselves because the terms weren’t quite right, or we weren’t really very excited about the property. I almost made an offer on another property over Thanksgiving, but decided not to because I didn’t like the terms (I’d asked for a lease option to buy and didn’t like what came back). We have engaged I don’t know how many realtors - three or four. The realtors are very, very aggressive and seem to be relentless to try to talk me into properties that we don’t really like. </p>

<p>So, yesterday I viewed a house - with the current tenant - that I thought was just perfect. It has everything we’ve been looking for and fits our needs just perfectly. </p>

<p>Today was my meeting with the owner, and he interviewed me for over an hour. His primary concerns? Questions like “you’re a single mom with a child in college, isn’t this too much money for you” and “can you afford this” and “it has to be very expensive and very hard on you - how much does (D’s college) cost, anyway?”. </p>

<p>Turns out he was asking the questions because he uses the proceeds from the property to pay for the nursing care for his mother, who is in hospice. He cannot afford for a tenant to not pay the rent on time, because if that were to happen, he would not be able to meet payroll for the nurses who care for his mother.</p>

<p>Feeling sort of blindsided and not really having time to think about it (I wasn’t really expecting these sorts of questions and therefore wasn’t prepared to defend myself), I answered him something like I’d done a study of the area, looked up his home on the county property appraiser’s website, along with the surrounding homes, and I was satisfied that his price was very fair and that I was fully prepared to pay it. </p>

<p>We left the interview with an agreement that he will call me tomorrow, and bring paperwork and collect a deposit. </p>

<p>But then I started feeling really funny. In the first place, I wouldn’t be looking at a house I could not afford. In the second place, why wouldn’t he just let the credit report and standard background checks answer his questions? He hasn’t even collected the first piece of formal information from me, but he wants to question me about my financial viability because I’m a single mother with a child in college. </p>

<p>But then, on the other hand, I own a home, and have been thinking about renting it out since we’re never there any more, and, if it were me, I would be far more comfortable renting to a married couple - after all, from an economic stability factor, if there are two adults and both are working, if there is a job loss or some other unhappy event, at least someone is (presumably) bringing in money to pay the rent. But, I surely wouldn’t say so to a prospective tenant - I’m not sure if it’s illegal or not but it certainly isn’t very nice. </p>

<p>In any case, when we meet tomorrow, I am now really feeling funny about giving him a deposit. I am flying back to Washington Monday night, will be there all week, and I don’t want to be out of town and get a voicemail message that no sorry he found another tenant, and then there’s some problem getting my deposit refunded. There’s nothing to stop him from collecting a deposit from me, and then continuing to look for a tenant solution he will like better - a married couple. And the house is very desirable; he won’t have a problem renting it. </p>

<p>But I really want the house. We’ve been looking for so long. </p>

<p>What would you do?</p>

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<p>If you really like it and the lease agreement seems reasonable, I’d go for it. He may have been weird about the questions because he has either been burned in the past or has heard horror stories–and if he is that dependent on the rent, he’s understandable nervous. Now, I don’t know why he should “pick” on you more than any other prospective tenant, but maybe he would have thought of questions to ask them too. Did he even actually use a credit report? He may not have been savvy enough to even use formal checks (or was too cheap to use them).</p>

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<p>LTS:</p>

<p>It sounds as if the owner is in a tight financial situation owing to his mother’s nursing care (and probably frazzled about it, too). He may worry about the single source of income. Given the unstable employment situation, it is not unreasonable for him to worry about possible loss of job and hence of ability to pay the rent. He might have the same qualms with a married couple with only one income-earner. Perhaps you can reassure him that you have enough saved to cushion you and your D should that happen, but that your job is pretty secure.
If you like the house, go for it.</p>

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<p>My brother and another friend of mine have had so many bad experiences with tenants who couldn’t keep up with the rent that those questions don’t sound weird at all to me.</p>

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<p>LATE - not meaning to be a devils advocate here but… it bothers me alot regarding some of those questions you were asked - especially the one about how much your kiddos college costs - that is clearly none of his business. Asking if you can afford it? - he needs to do some homework on that one - by checking your credit report. I understand a landlords concerns - but I also understand what is NOT their concern as well - and that was over the line IMHO.</p>

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<p>There should be fair housing laws to cover what can be asked and what does not matter; if you want to you can investigate the legality- if you like the place and terms you may not want to bother at this point. I’m sure some CC posting lawyers could quote the antidiscrimination rules, and how they can vary federally versus statewide and locally.</p>

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<p>Lawyer weighing in here- He can ask these questions and I don’t blame him. SO many landlords wind up getting stiffed. It may not be fun to have to answer these (I wouldn’t enjoy it), but he can certainly ask. It’s not a matter of discrimination- it’s a matter of protecting himself financially. LOTS of people try to buy things they can’t afford. Or, they can afford it at the moment, but their situation changes rapidly.</p>

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<p>MomofWildChild, at what point does the tenant acceptance process become discriminatory? </p>

<p>Why doesn’t the simple, inexpensive and leveling process of (1) running credit reports and (2) checking current rental references and (3) checking business references - something that CAN and SHOULD be done for every perspective tenant, regardless of marital status, number of children or how many in college, skin color, age, etc. - satisfy a property owner?</p>

<p>After all, if someone is in the process of trying to procure something they cannot afford, are they really likely to say so? </p>

<p>Do you honestly believe this or any other landlord would ask a married couple “can you afford this” and “isn’t this a lot of money for you” and “how much does U tuition cost”?</p>

<p>If he ran my financials, or even collected the first item of legitimate information from me, he would quickly discover that if I wanted to, I could write a check on the spot for an entire year’s lease balance, and not even miss the money. I don’t think I should have to use my money in that manner though, just because my single-parent status makes him nervous.</p>

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<p>SO many tenants end up getting stiffed, too, if we really want to get into justifications. Between maintenance issues that are not addressed, property that is not maintained, uncollectable security deposits that are owed at move-out, and the not so uncommon scenario of deposits collected from multiple prospective tenants for the same property…</p>

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<p>Prospective tenants should be asking hard questions too.</p>

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<p>But Mathmom, with the availability of information today, there is no need to ask “hard” or worse “intrusive” questions. Let’s face it, someone intent on fraud or just plain irresponsible isn’t going to return straight, credible, reliable responses anyway. I don’t go to meetings if I don’t know who I’m meeting with, or that person’s general resume and footprint. It’s a simple matter to look up a property on the county appraiser’s website, get a folio number, do some research. A few more mouse clicks on Pacer, LN, others gets to more stuff. County and city clerk of courts databases yield more stuff. Google produces wonders, if you know where to look. </p>

<p>For about < 20 minutes and an internet connection, it’s ridiculously easy to amass enough information or even absence of information to make a judgment call. </p>

<p>That was my expectation here. Property owner could have asked for my ss number to run a credit report, but he didn’t do that. He could have asked me to fill out an application to rent, but he didn’t do that. He could have asked for criminal background check authorization, but he didn’t do that. Could have asked for banking, business, and even person references, but he didn’t do that, either. </p>

<p>Instead I get “you’re a single parent - can you afford this”…</p>

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<p>Do what I did and order a Dun and Bradstreet report on the Landlord or apartment company. Then ask a few questions of your own if the potential landlord tries to browbeat you.</p>

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<p>A property owner who is renting one house is very different in level of sophistication or legal responsibility than one who owns a large apartment building. It sounds to me like you ran into an inexperienced landlord who is legitimately worried about how and when the rent will be paid. If you like the property, keep in mind that he will also be more responsive if it’s his only property and you have a problem.</p>

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<p>Having been burned big time by tenants when we moved twice in bad housing markets and ended up having to rent out 2 of our former homes, I sympathize with the landlord, who isn’t a professional landlord, but needs the money desperately to pay for his mother’s care. </p>

<p>All the landlord was doing was trying to find out if you are going to be paying rent regularly. Just because you are thoughtful about your expenses, doesn’t mean that other people are. There are many people who would not budget for the fact that their kid is in college, and who would also think it’s perfectly fine to plan to not pay the landlord and to keep living there for months until the landlord was finally able to get rid of them legally.</p>

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<p>And many landlords are now concerned about asking for SSN’s even for credit checks, due to the issues of identity theft. I’d think that the searches you are suggesting the landlord do are actually more intrusive than the questions he was asking you. Internet searches also don’t give the “gut feeling” of whether a person is or is not trustworthy that an in-person interview does.</p>

<p>I think the landlord was within his (general) rights to explore with you your financial suitability to pay the rent, barring any local ordinances that say he can’t. If you are uncomfortable whith his methods of gathering information, your option is to refuse to rent the property.</p>

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<p>The issue of discrimination is one of whether you are being treated differently as a member of a PROTECTED CLASS. Are you a minority? Disabled? Over 40 and being discriminated against on that basis? Even if you are a member of a protected class (single parents are not a protected class), you have to show that the landlord’s actions are disriminatory against you AS a member of that class.</p>

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<p>Anyone can claim discrimination against anyone, protected class or not. The only people not in protected class are white males between 20 and 40, that’s because we run sh**. lol Regardless, you also have to realize that this is a college town, and the landlord probably has been burned numerous times in the past. I see no problem with these questions. Hell, landlords ask way more intrusive questions than this, as someone who is renting is unlikely to be able to take someone to court. I have been told that I couldn’t have certain rental properties because I DIDN’T have kids and a family. I have heard of interracial couples, who wouldn’t get rented a property just because of that. It really is just a pill that you have to swallow sometimes.</p>

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<p>So Joev, being an inter-racial couple whom is refused an apartment lease “is just a pill you have to swallow?” Not according to egalitarian morals, common decency and the law of the United States of America.</p>

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<p>I am just saying if I was going out with someone of a different race, and was denied entrance to a rental property because I that, I would not want to live there regardless, would you? So these types of questions may be actually beneficial to the renter also.</p>

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<p>Additionally, in some jurisdictions, single people (parents or not) are protected for rental housing, and people with children are also protected. That’s why it’s important to check the state and local regulations. However, as long as the questions have to do with your financial ability to pay the rent, and not with things like “I don’t rent to kids because they ruin the property”, then the questions should be considered legitimate and non-discriminatory. </p>

<p>Of course anyone can sue for anything. The question is, Can you win? And unless you can prove that a failure to rent is due primarily to the protected class, you’re out of luck.</p>