Do all men, or could, potentially cheat?

Parent Cafe
101

<p>Yes, it’s blaming the victim yet again when we look to see what was somehow “lacking” in the spouse that contributed to the straying.</p>

<p>LOL…no…it’s not blaming the victim. But, sometimes the victim has to accept SOME responsibility.</p>

<p>For instance…I have a female friend who left her husband. He had the worse grooming habits ever. Rarely showered, refused to use soap or deodorant. Also, refused to brush his teeth. She would beg him to shower and such, but he’d ignore her. She literally became disgusted - especially when …well, you know when… </p>

<p>Yes, she left him. Would you say that the victim (the stinky husband) was not the least to blame??? </p>

<p>Sometimes the victim can make bad choices that contributed to their situation. To deny that is just not right.</p>

102

<p>–There was a family at our Catholic church that seemed happy, but many of us wondered why the wife just let herself go COMPLETELY…I mean really, really badly. Totally ungroomed. I mean she was “clean,” but hair sloppy, clothes sloppy, etc.</p>

<p>–For instance…I have a female friend who left her husband. He had the worse grooming habits ever. Rarely showered, refused to use soap or deodorant. Also, refused to brush his teeth. She would beg him to shower and such, but he’d ignore her.</p>

<p>This kind of really poor grooming may be a sign of depression/mental illness. I wouldn’t want to stay with a man who wouldn’t shower/use deodorant/brush teeth–eeeww.</p>

103

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<p>Wow, the Church has changed a lot since I left. I was taught that being faithful was a personal responsibility and was not aware of the “well, a small part of it is understandable if your spouse totally lets themself go” clause.</p>

<p>Of course, I was also taught that gossping was wrong and that gossiping about people’s physical apperance was especially vile.</p>

104

<p>I know two marriages where the H cheated, which eventually led to ugly, messy divorces. The men are now miserable, 6-8 years later. They’ve both gone through several relationships. They cheated, not because their wives let themselves go, but because there was someting wrong with THEM, the men, I mean. Obviously, whatever was wrong wasn’t fixed by an affair, and that’s why they’re still unhappy.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned “office marriages” a few pages ago. Those are very, very dangerous to a marriage. You need to tread very carefully there.</p>

105

<p>My husband’s gained almost 100 pounds in our marriage and I still wouldn’t cheat, so I don’t buy the letting yourself go argument. However, I do think that it’s a loving gesture to groom yourself for your partner. For example, I am totally attracted to the goatee thing and my H knows it. He doesn’t always have time to take care of it, so he mostly doesn’t, but when he does make that happen I know without question that he’s done it as a romantic gesture just for me and he knows that I’m very, shall we say, pleased with him. I love that.</p>

106

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<p>Was he like that before they were married? Or did she think she would “clean him up”?</p>

<p>It’s been said that a woman marries a man and hopes he’ll change; a man marries a woman and hopes she doesn’t.</p>

107

<p>My husband’s gained almost 100 pounds in our marriage and I still wouldn’t cheat, so I don’t buy the letting yourself go argument.</p>

<p>Some are wrongly equating the “letting yourself go” argument with weight gain. Please re-read what has been written. I’m not talking about pounds. I’m talking about grooming, keeping one’s body clean, keeping one’s hair groomed, wearing decent (not fancy) clothing, etc. </p>

<p>As for Pugmankate’s remark. Yes, gossiping is wrong, but when a couple breaks up it’s not reasonable to expect people not to comment on what may have contributed to the break up. No one was making snarky comments. It was just a sort of…“this is awful. Mr. P shouldn’t have done this. Mrs. P should have had better grooming, since Mr. P had so many work/social functions to attend.” </p>

<p>As for “the church” comment. I can assure you that “the church” has no part in it. There was no referencing of anything from the pulpit. That was an unnecessary comment.</p>

108

<p>Was he like that before they were married? Or did she think she would “clean him up”?</p>

<p>That’s the weird thing. He was well-groomed when they were dating. He just slowly started getting lazy about bathing, teeth brushing, etc, after they married. He also started smoking after they were married which really added to the bad breath issue. He’d get really angry when she wouldn’t kiss him cuz he hadn’t brushed his teeth.</p>

<p>Anyway, she put up with it for as long as she could, and then she left. Having intimate relations with him became pure torture…if you can imagine…ick…stinky.</p>

109

<p>“There was a family at our Catholic church that seemed happy, but many of us wondered why the wife just let herself go COMPLETELY…I mean really, really badly.”</p>

<p>In a situation like this, if the wife used to take better care of herself, then she might be depressed, or she might be sending the husband a not-so-subtle message. Maybe for whatever reason she wanted to embarrass him, get rid of him, or at least get him out of her bed. Making herself as unattractive as she can is a way to achieve all that without actually filing for divorce herself.</p>

<p>You see this kind of thing a lot on Supernanny, where the family has bedtime problems and the kids end up sleeping with Mom. When Supernanny teaches the kids to sleep alone, Mom balks, because she’s actually using them to keep Dad away.</p>

<p>“The men are now miserable, 6-8 years later.”</p>

<p>Yep, I know a family just like this! Dad was never satisfied with reality as compared to his ideal, so he left. He had another marriage, and that one failed too – nothing could ever live up to his expectations. Meanwhile, the abandoned wife, who never wanted the divorce in the first place, found a happy relationship shortly afterwards and has been remarried for more than a decade. It took more than ten years, but Dad finally realized the problem was his all along, and told the first wife that he never should have left her. Yep. Too bad it takes some men 60+ years to grow up.</p>

110

<p>^^^^^</p>

<p>In a situation like this, if the wife used to take better care of herself, then she might be depressed, or she might be sending the husband a not-so-subtle message. Maybe for whatever reason she wanted to embarrass him, get rid of him, or at least get him out of her bed. Making herself as unattractive as she can is a way to achieve all that without actually filing for divorce herself.</p>

<p>This happened in the 70s at a time when “depression” wasn’t something really known about or talked about in regards to otherwise healthy individuals. I don’t know/think she was depressed. I think it was more of the “I don’t HAVE to take care of myself anymore. I’m married and that’s it.” But, I could be wrong. </p>

<p>“The men are now miserable, 6-8 years later.”</p>

<p>*Yep, I know a family just like this! Dad was never satisfied with reality as compared to his ideal, so he left. He had another marriage, and that one failed too – nothing could ever live up to his expectations. Meanwhile, the abandoned wife, who never wanted the divorce in the first place, found a happy relationship shortly afterwards and has been remarried for more than a decade. It took more than ten years, but Dad finally realized the problem was his all along, and told the first wife that he never should have left her. Yep. Too bad it takes some men 60+ years to grow up. *</p>

<p>Yes, we’ve seen that happen. At our niece’s wedding, the ex-H of the mother of the bride came up to her and apologized for divorcing her 25+ years earlier. He, too, had left thinking there were “greener pastures” out there. He had a series of more marriages/divorces. At the wedding of their daughter, he realized that his first wife was really quite the catch and never should have let her go. </p>

<p>Lots of unnecessary pain was caused by his lapse of good judgment.</p>

111

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<p>LMAO, because the first thought that went through my mind was if you lived in Boston that would be grounds for divorce! Bucky F…ing Dent is fighting words!</p>

<p>In the end of the day I do believe success in marriage comes down to one intrinsic thing…you put the other mate first. That means the husband puts the wife first and the wife puts the husband first…WIN WIN for both. All too often couples lose sight of each other, life and kids get in the way. They wake up one morning and realize that the person in bed with them is more of a stranger to them then the person at work.</p>

<p>Bullet and I tell each other everyday we love each other. We laugh because I will say to him when he makes a silly comment or joke…YOU ARE SUCH AN A**HOLE! That to us keeps us young. </p>

<p>Years ago I knew that my BIL and SIL were on the road to divorce by a simple comment made niece said to our DS. Bullet and I always hold hands as he drives and she thought that was weird. She asked DS if he thought it was weird, and he said NO, it would be weird if they didn’t do it!</p>

<p>The other big clue, was when my SIL said I wish BIL and I would be like the 2 of you. I can’t tell you the last time we went out to dinner as a couple. Back then Bullet and I had a monthly date night. Just the two of us, and the ground rules were we could not talk about the kids or call to check in on them. </p>

<p>Even now we may watch tv in other rooms, but the minute he comes home I drop everything and we talk about the day. As he waters the lawn, I take the dogs out and talk to him while we both do our chores. </p>

<p>We honestly do silly stupid things that cost nothing, but means everything. He leaves for work very early and always brings a cup of coffee to me, even if I am still sleeping. I make him lunch and leave a note written on the bag (folded over so he can’t see it) with something silly.</p>

<p>I think marriages fail and people cheat because they forgot that it is important to always WOO the one you love. They take their mate for granted…I got you and now you should know I love you. To me that is wrong. You want to feel that simple gesture, it brightens your day and quickens your step, so do they! </p>

<p>The couple who never loses sight of those early days before the kids, the mtg, the job, the taxes, the college tuition bill will be the couple celebrating their diamond anniversary. They will be the couple that gives their children a better chance of marital success. </p>

<p>That old adage of don’t ever go to sleep angry is true and false. I have gone to bed mad at Bullet, and I am sure he has done the same, but in the end it is respect of each other and being the only soft landing spot for our mate that IMHO has kept us together. If going to sleep mad over a fight causes marital issues, than the reality is the fight was not the real issue, there is an underlying problem that neither of you have addressed.</p>

112

<p>That never go to bed angry thing is interesting.</p>

<p>I’ve gone to bed angry at my husband, but I never wake up angry with him…not one time can I recall going to bed angry and waking up still angry with him. Strange. It always just disappears.</p>

113

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I understand what you wrote, but I posted something different about my experience.</p>

114

<p>It always just disappears.</p>

<p>Sleep, food, & water can help alot of things.
:)</p>

<p>My favorite advice is * you must be dehydrated*.</p>

115

<p>Depression seems to be the most likely reason someone stops grooming. I wouldn’t think a woman who appears unkempt/disheveled in public has some motive to shame her H. It is more of a cry for help than anything. Yes, some women (including me) prefer a very casual style. But no one tries to “look bad” on purpose. If a woman were depressed (likely) she wouldn’t be aware of her disheveled look or have the energy to fix her hair, iron her clothes, etc. I wonder, in a case like this, if the husband ever noticed what she looked like as they were going out the door? (If H’s shirt isn’t ironed, or his tie doesn’t match, there is lint on his jacket, hair sticking up funny, whatever–who will get blamed for that? ME, his wife! But nobody says–“Gosh, why didn’t HE iron that dress for her? Why doesn’t he take care of her and help her get ready?”)</p>

<p>IMO, significant weight gain IS “letting yourself go”-- it is not taking care of your health and increases risks of diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attack, etc.–then your spouse has to deal with your illness. Not an excuse to cheat by any means, but everyone should try to keep themselves healthy for the sake of their spouse & kids.</p>

<p>Both H and W need to make sacrifices for each other
Women want a lot of different things and sometimes the guy has trouble guessing what will make her happy. Usually a wife will just tell her husband–“Honey, I’d really like it if you would. . .grow a goatee, take me out, bring me flowers, compliment me, fix that broken screen door, mow the lawn, do something with the kids, sit and talk to me, lose 20 lbs. . .” (Honey, in case you read this, you can skip the first 4 on the list. P.S. If you even think about growing a goatee, I’m leaving you!) There are only 3 things a man wants: sex, food, and more sex. :wink:
And laundry–someone to do his. </p>

<p>I’m all for going to bed angry. H and I noticed early on that all our fights happened late in the evening. Better to sleep on it. Folks are tired, stressed, and not thinking clearly at the end of a long day. “No discussions of important issues after 9pm” is a good rule.</p>

116

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Exactly. It becomes harder to get around and do things, harder to remain intimate. It’s a big deal, although I don’t generally think of it as voluntary. With that much gain, it’s sometimes not the same person you married. My DH was a professional baseball player when we married. At his heaviest, he couldn’t get around at all well and even broke four dining room chairs. It is a stressor on a marriage, but I don’t see it as an excuse to cheat but, rather, an opportunity to recommit and work forward to health together.</p>

117

<p>*I know two marriages where the H cheated, which eventually led to ugly, messy divorces. The men are now miserable, 6-8 years later. They’ve both gone through several relationships. They cheated, not because their wives let themselves go, but because there was someting wrong with THEM, the men, I mean. Obviously, whatever was wrong wasn’t fixed by an affair, and that’s why they’re still unhappy. *</p>

<p>Oh very true. Actually, I think this is more common than the “spouse letting him/herself go” reason. Many think the “grass is greener.” My dad used to say, “the grass may be greener, but it’s just as hard to cut.”</p>

<p>* Someone mentioned “office marriages” a few pages ago. Those are very, very dangerous to a marriage. You need to tread very carefully there. *</p>

<p>I agree. One participant can’t read the mind of the other person. Sometimes one has a crush on the other, but pretends it’s just a friendship to justify spending time with that person.</p>

118

<p>There are only 3 things a man wants: sex, food, and more sex.</p>

<p>Which can be unbearable torture if the guy won’t bathe/brush teeth. I’m getting the creeps just thinking about it.</p>

119

<p>But no one tries to “look bad” on purpose.</p>

<p>But subconsciously they might.
My H had a really hard time consolidating " mother" and " sexual being". He became extremely jealous anytime I went anywhere, ( including to work or the grocery store), looking back- I expect it was because he was constantly thinking about being unfaithful, so he thought I must be. But because I just couldn’t deal with his starting fights constantly, I gained weight, cut off my hair, and adopted a matronly wardrobe. When I was only in my early 30’s.
:frowning:
a$$*ole.
We even separated for over a year, but that was a long time ago.</p>

<p>We aren’t the best friends I would like us to be, I think as we have gotten older,the basic way we are in the world has gotten farther apart, which can be annoying- even though many of our common viewpoints haven’t changed.
( He is more of a " why does this always happen to me- half empty person" and I am a look on the bright side, half full optimist)</p>

<p>But the attraction is as strong as it ever was, and while I wish he took better care of himself- ( he still smokes- he thinks he gets enough exercise at work and he doesn’t deal with stress well), he still wears the same size he did in high school and he has * very slowly* improved his eating habits ( ha! because he doesn’t cook!)</p>

<p>However- I alternate between resentment that I have to be " the keeper of the relationship", and acceptance.
I have been trying to drill into him, we have to have time together that isn’t having sex/fighting.
:rolleyes:
When the kids were growing up, I got around it by getting season tickets- to baseball games and to the children’s theatre. I think that growing up with a dad who was an alcoholic, he learned not being able to ever plan anything, but if we have have tickets- that is already a commitment- so he will go.</p>

<p>BUt lately that is taking a toll- I have bought tickets to see bands lately, that don’t even start playing till 9 or 9:30, and the very longest we last is until 11:30.
We have another one this Friday, not everyone keeps musicians hours guys!</p>

<p>( however, I persist in going- cause you never know- the only guy I would even consider being unfaithful with is Eddie Vedder & he has made surprise appearances before- even though I would have to beat off a line of women half my age to get to him- & alas, I haven’t gotten permission to try)</p>

120

<p>MO, significant weight gain IS “letting yourself go”-- it is not taking care of your health and increases risks of diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attack, etc.–then your spouse has to deal with your illness. Not an excuse to cheat by any means, but everyone should try to keep themselves healthy for the sake of their spouse & kids.</p>

<p>Of course, never an excuse to cheat. But, is there a point where very excessive weight gain could be an excuse to leave? I don’t know…I’ve never had to deal with that issue. </p>

<p>And, I guess some would ask what is “excessive weight gain”? 100 lbs? 200lbs? more? less? A tall man can hide a bunch of weight easily. My H is 6’2’. His weight can swing 20lbs either way and not show anything - wears the same clothes. I am very short - 5lbs shows. So, excessive weight for me would be less than excessive weight for him, I guess.</p>

<p>Anyway…no excuse to cheat. But, if the grossly excessive weight gain affects other aspects of the marriage, it could contribute to the death of the marriage.</p>