<p>Men and women both cheat. I think they do for different reasons- the women is looking to be romanced. The man is looking for the excitement and the sex.</p>
<p>And put me in the camp that appearance does have something to do with it. I could not believe how many of the women looked at my 25 year high school reunion. There were far more women who had gained serious weight than men who had.</p>
<p>And as a side note, many of the women who had been divorced were surly and still angry about it years later. As much as it hurts, you have to let that anger go , or you become the scowling woman that scares men away.</p>
<p>A couple in our community with five kids (college-age to middle-school age) are divorcing after the husband left the wife for an affair with a young woman two years older than the couple’s oldest child. Among the casualties are the business in which the husband is a partner. His “middle-age crazy” antics blew through a bunch of company money; that combined with the shaky economy and the need to divide things up between the spouses and the divorce attorneys has pushed the company into bankruptcy. This family and the families of the husband’s three business partners are losing everything since they all signed personal guarantees on business loans. All the employees of the business are out of jobs, so their families, too, are suffering as a result.</p>
<p>It’s stunning how much destruction one person’s actions can wreak.</p>
<p>This is a smokescreen. The vast majority of men who cheat are not cheating because the wife gained weight (although that is not be a valid or excusable reason, either). Just ask Tiger or Jesse James or Elliott Spitzer or Mark Sanford or Halle Berry’s ex … or morrismm’s BIL. (I don’t know why they did cheat, but THAT certainly is not the reason.)</p>
<p>Guess Vderon you are not from NJ! I went to my 20 and the women were in great shape, with obvious Botox. The guys on the other hand were balding with weight issues! That included the Varsity Football team.</p>
<p>Yes, I have seen the angry divorcee, but realistically, can you not admit that a 44 yo man would ask the 31 yo out over the 42 yo with the exact same figure? </p>
<p>The fact is society allows men to be the “catch—distinguished” at 50 and the woman to be the “old maid—toss away” over 35. Finances being equal.</p>
<p>A woman is a COUGAR for a May December romance. A man is oh well, what did you expect?</p>
<p>A woman is a slut if she has an affair. A man is oh well, what did you expect?</p>
<p>A woman is a home breaker if she is the mistress. A man is given a pass!</p>
<p>A woman is seen as giving him a reason to cheat, be it looks, lack of sex, attention, etc. A man is told “I am with you, who wants to come home to…”</p>
<p>Society has specific boundaries and allusions.</p>
<p>Hate to say it vderon, but the reason women don’t give action or keep up their appearance is because of the male persona. To a woman if you think that we are a possession, the first thing we will do is to prove we aren’t your possession. </p>
<p>No woman is going to lie down in bed and be amorous because it is 10 pm and time to go to sleep!</p>
<p>No woman is going to find you sexy when you pass gas in the bed as you are watching TV.</p>
<p>No woman is going to admire you when you drop dishes in the sink expecting us to come behind you to put them in the dishwasher!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And as a side note, many men who had been divorced believe they are a women’s savior. As much as it hurts, you have to acknowledge that the 20 somethings want you for money, and the 30 somethings are hearing a time clock. You are chosen because we have decided you are the best of the options available!</p>
<p>In the end my personal opinion is you need lessons on how a woman think!</p>
<p>I don’t know. I think an honest man would tell you that looks matter. </p>
<p>I have a confession to make- I never got really mad at Bill Clinton for cheating on Hillary. I always had the feeling that Hillary wasn’t the kind of wife who kept that particular flame burning. I truly feel that if a man isn’t getting what he needs at home, he will go looking for it, because sex is more important to a man. </p>
<p>It’s not like Bill went looking for a good looking woman- neither of the women he cheated with were that attractive. That leads me to conclude he was just looking for someone who was willing…</p>
<p>This is just my opinion, and I have no facts to back it up. But if nothing else, letting yourself go big time tells your spouse that you don’t care enough to look good for them.</p>
<p>No one is going to look the same as they did when they were 21. But wearing something nice, and um, maybe taking a shower before you go to bed, is always going to be appreciated. </p>
<p>This was a very difficult post to write without sounding wierd. :-)</p>
<p>"Hate to say it vderon, but the reason women don’t give action or keep up their appearance is because of the male persona.</p>
<p>No woman is going to lie down in bed and be amorous because it is 10 pm and time to go to sleep!</p>
<p>No woman is going to find you sexy when you pass gas in the bed as you are watching TV.</p>
<p>No woman is going to admire you when you drop dishes in the sink expecting us to come behind you to put them in the dishwasher!"</p>
<p>I would argue that that is exactly the kind of stuff you have to leave behind when you are in the bedroom. If you have been married a long time, you have seen your spouse throw up, pass gas, give birth , have something coming out of their nose that they don’t know is there, etc. etc. </p>
<p>When you get in the bedroom you have to look at your spouse with new eyes, every time. </p>
<p>"In the end my personal opinion is you need lessons on how a woman think! "</p>
<p>I think I’ll be happier having figured out how my husband thinks. </p>
<p>I can’t believe I am posting this. Good thing you guys don’t really know me. I’d blush if I saw you in the grocery store after saying what I have said in these last couple posts. :-)</p>
<p>But we are not talking about honest men. We’re talking about cheaters.</p>
<p>My hypothesis is that if you were to objectively rate the physical appearance of wives whose husbands cheated on them and then rate the appearance of wives whose husbands have not cheated on them, there would be no statistically significant difference in the ratings.</p>
<p>I have been married for 21 yrs coming up on 22, this June we will have been “together” for 27 yrs.</p>
<p>I do agree you see the good, bad and the ugly. </p>
<p>I find it interesting that you defend men cheating based on the woman. That is very disturbing to me.</p>
<p>To say you can understand Bill cheating on Hillary, as a woman sends shivers down my spine! Marriage is not just about sex, it is about family, it is about respect, admiration, completing each other. I am only 45, but truthfully I don’t expect that Bullet’s and my sex life at 70 is going to be as active as it was in our 40’s. That doesn’t mean I won’t think he is still the most handsome man on earth, it just means physically regarding hormones my body has changed.</p>
<p>All I can say is WOW. I just can’t get defending a man cheating without giving her fair warning. I can’t defend cheaters because morally they warped the rules for their benefit. If you love your spouse than before you cheat you will be honest and say something is just not working here. You took a vow and part of it says BETTER OR WORSE! You can’t throw the blame on them for your failure to respect those vows if you never said anything.</p>
<p>“I find it interesting that you defend men cheating based on the woman.”</p>
<p>Not at all. My preference is that men would leave their wife before instead of cheating on her while they are still married, and vice versa. It’s way more honest. It takes a lot more guts to say “this is not working” than to try to have a marrige and a mistress at the same time.</p>
<p>I agree there is way more to marrige than sex. But to deny its importance to a man (and many women) is to deny that plants need water. </p>
<p>"All I can say is WOW. I just can’t get defending a man cheating without giving her fair warning. "</p>
<p>Now that is nuts. I can imagine that conversation.</p>
<p>Honey, I’m bored, and you smell. Just a fair warning, I’m going to go look for a new model. </p>
<p>I don’t need to imagine that conversation. I was the recipient of it. “I don’t think I want a divorce. I want to be married and be able to date tramp/slut. That way, if that falls through, I’ll have you. Because I don’t want to be alone…” </p>
<p>Wow-17 years later I cannot believe anyone, anyone would have the audacity to say this to his spouse. You reap what you sow. You can call me the surly divorcee if you want. I don’t care. Yes, I was bitter for this and him leaving his 2 and 4 year old kids.</p>
<p>I agree with bulletandpima. I feel marriage is for life and for better OR worse (barring the usual drugs/violence/etc.) I think if all parties went into marriage operating on this principal, there’d be far fewer divorces and many more stable children and disrupted lives. It is unbelievable how the selfish actions of one person can ruin so many lives. </p>
<p>I think there’s a big correlation between the huge increase in divorce rates in the last 30 years and the increase in problems for children. I think no-fault divorce (60 days, can file yourself in my state) and society’s acceptance play a huge part in this and I think it’s for the worse.</p>
<p>*Now that is nuts. I can imagine that conversation.</p>
<p>Honey, I’m bored, and you smell. Just a fair warning, I’m going to go look for a new model.</p>
<p>??? *</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone expects the “fair warning” to be delivered in such a manner.</p>
<p>I think that there are other ways to convey the message.</p>
<p>And, my H would say, women never smell…only men and men’s bathrooms. LOL</p>
<p>*I don’t need to imagine that conversation. I was the recipient of it. “I don’t think I want a divorce. I want to be married and be able to date tramp/slut. That way, if that falls through, I’ll have you. Because I don’t want to be alone…”</p>
<p>Wow-17 years later I cannot believe anyone, anyone would have the audacity to say this to his spouse. You reap what you sow.*</p>
<p>OMG…I can’t imagine any guy saying such a thing. What kind of guy was he when you were dating? What’s his situation now?</p>
<p>“You can call me the surly divorcee if you want. I don’t care. Yes, I was bitter for this and him leaving his 2 and 4 year old kids.”</p>
<p>I don’t want to call you any names or diminish your pain.</p>
<p>I would rather not go into details about my ex-husband, but suffice it to say that I learned something from what happened.</p>
<p>I had to let go of my anger before I could be happy again, and be happy in my 2nd marriage. It does no good to let it consume you for the rest of your life. </p>
<p>And - if I am being honest- I learned some things. I don’t take my happiness with husband #2 for granted… And I don’t punish him in the bedroom if he doesn’t do the dishes.</p>
<p>Enough said.</p>
<p>My kids turned out great, by the way. Honor students, no bad behavior, no social problems or drugs, none of any of that. Divorce doesn’t doom a child. I believe an unhappy home can do just as much damage.</p>
<p>"Now that is nuts. I can imagine that conversation.</p>
<p>Honey, I’m bored, and you smell. Just a fair warning, I’m going to go look for a new model."</p>
<p>I was thinking more along the lines of “Honey, I’m not happy. I’d like to go to a marriage counselor with you and see if we can make things better between us. Are you willing to go?”</p>
<p>"I was thinking more along the lines of “Honey, I’m not happy. I’d like to go to a marriage counselor with you and see if we can make things better between us. Are you willing to go?” "</p>
<p>But that is not what she said . She said she thought the husband should give the wife fair warning before he cheats. I made light of it because I can’t believe that a husband would ever announce to his wife that he was going to cheat. </p>
<p>That is absurd. How should she answer?</p>
<p>Thanks for the fair warning darling! What do I need to change so that you won’t cheat?</p>
<p>I’m sorry I made a joke about it. I just thought it was a ridiculous thing to say, so I made a ridiculous joke.</p>
<p>mom2…He was a nice, stable guy. My parents loved him. He turned into a selfish lout and decided it was “all about him”. He lived with her for 10 years and finally married her. He has told me it was a huge mistake. I’m still good friends with his sister, mom, nieces and nephews. They are umm, not fond of her. She’s stupid, really is a slut and tramp, and now she’s old and ugly too! hehhe. You really do reap what you sow!!</p>
<p>vderon–Yes, one must let go, but forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting. I’ve been happily remarried for 16 years with a wonderful man who reared my children as his own. I do hope she was worth it in bed, because ex-H traded raising his children for a romp in the hay. I never punish my H for not doing the dishes, or anything else. I don’t think sex is the appropriate thing to use for “bargaining”.</p>
<p>My kids turned out great too, but in spite of divorce, not because of it. My and your anecdotal experiences for <em>our</em> kids doesn’t change my feeling one iota, that for society in general, and especially children, divorce is a really bad thing. I was also in the position that my children did not suffer financially from divorce and statistics are very clear that that isn’t usually the case. On most every quantifiable marker, and many that aren’t so quantifiable, children of divorce are worse off than children in a two-biological parent home.</p>
<p>My friends who have had their husbands wander off and dessert them & the kids have all been able to raise wonderful kids in spite of everything. They are all very strong & wonderful people and their straying exes are generally not happy & still searching (no one quite knows what they’re looking for, but haven’t generally found it). The women have NOT dissed their exes and encourage the kids to have a relationship with their dads. Most of the kids lost some respect for the dads but still maintain some relationship.</p>
<p>I’m sure that for most families, the kids would have suffered a lot more, but am glad that these kids & the divorcees I know have been able to maintain a decent lifestyle. The moms saw to it that their kids got what they needed, even if mom had to pay 100% and/or have attorney fight to get it.</p>
<p>*
But that is not what she said . She said she thought the husband should give the wife fair warning before he cheats. I made light of it because I can’t believe that a husband would ever announce to his wife that he was going to cheat. *</p>
<p>Who suggested that a husband should warn his wife before he cheats??? </p>
<p>Pima wrote: If you love your spouse than before you cheat you will be honest and say something is just not working here. </p>
<p>Some have said that the spouse should tell other spouse what they are unhappy about instead of remaining silent and going off and cheating.</p>
<p>Pima also wrote: “All I can say is WOW. I just can’t get defending a man cheating without giving her fair warning.”</p>
<p>This is what I was responding to.</p>
<p>All joking aside, I do believe that some women are unwilling or unable to look at themselves honestly when the cheating occurs. All they can focus on is the cheating, and not the other problems that might be poisoning the marriage.</p>
<p>Yes, some men , and some women will cheat on a perfect spouse. But-some men and some women will cheat when the marriage has already gone awry, and they are looking for something else. </p>
<p>Once the cheating happens, all the focus is on the cheating, and maybe not the underlying problems that were already a destructive force in the marriage.</p>
<p>Basically, we make the cheater the villian because it is the the most hurtful, ego damaging thing in the world to be cheated on. Its easier to focus on what an a–hole they are than to look at yourself and see if there is anything you could have done to work on the marriage.</p>
<p>It takes a pretty big person to forgive the person that destroyed your trust and work on a marriage. Most people can’t do it- and even if they were willing to try, the cheater might not be .</p>
<p>This conversation has been interesting to read. I’d love to take a poll and find out how many men have asked to go to marriage counseling. Most men I know who have gone to marriage counseling have gone because the wife wanted to go…fwiw. </p>
<p>Also, I’ve only met one woman whose husband actually left them. I have met women who left their husband because he cheated on them, women who left because they were unhappy, but I’ve only known one man to leave his wife…In my experience, women leave. Men cheat more, maybe, but women leave more. Most cheaters will stay in the marriage, fwiw.</p>
<p>*
All joking aside, I do believe that some women are unwilling or unable to look at themselves honestly when the cheating occurs. All they can focus on is the cheating, and not the other problems that might be poisoning the marriage.*</p>
<p>I agree. I had to once tell a friend who was always putting off sex because she was “too tired” that men who aren’t getting sex at home may end up getting it elsewhere. Her H had complained to her numerous times.</p>
<p>That said, if a woman is always tired, some men need to ask themselves…hmmm, am I coming home from work and plopping myself on the sofa while my wife has to keep on working until 10 pm? If so, maybe if I help her get the dishes/laundry done by 8pm, she won’t be so tired at 10pm. LOL</p>
<p>*Most men I know who have gone to marriage counseling have gone because the wife wanted to go…fwiw. *</p>
<p>That’s what I’ve noticed, too. And, some men refuse to go because they don’t want to hear any corrections from a 3rd party.</p>