Do all men, or could, potentially cheat?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Morrismm I feel very sorry for your sister and her children. I don’t understand why children of an orthopedic surgeon are borrowing money to pay for college………that should have been a big red warning flag.</p>

<p>Both men and women cheat on their spouses. The difference is how society treats the cheater. A woman caught cheating is ostracized and becomes a pariah to her friends and family. A man-cheater retains his social circle; if/when he remarries, the newbie wife is eventually accepted and the first wife drifts away. Men are less forgiving or accepting of unmarried men who fool around with another man’s wife, but women will continue to befriend an unmarried woman having an affair with a married man.</p>

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<p>I have a long time to look back on my marriage. I have gone through counseling too trying to make sense of what my life is now after H left. Were there problems in our marriage? Yes. But the thing is, they weren’t recognized as “problems.” It was just the way our marriage worked. No marriage is perfect and no marriage works perfectly. Every marriage is different and what works in mine, does not work in yours. </p>

<p>I just wish that H was man enough to tell me that he felt there were “problems.” I would have loved to know that so that we as a couple could have talked about them, dealt with them. Sometimes I feel that H has created these problems after the fact as a way of justifying his behavior. It is an easy way for him to deflect the blame. After all, I was not a good enough wife and therefore, he shouldn’t have to stay in the marriage. Funny how after 20 some years he all of a sudden decides that I am not a good wife. </p>

<p>In the end, all I can do is take ownership is what my marriage was and how I was in our marriage. I cannot take any ownership nor responsibility for his affair. That is all his responsibility and his affair is a reflection of him and not our marriage. A marriage may be 50/50, but an affair is 100%. </p>

<p>I don’t know of any husband that has left his wife for another woman that has agreed to counseling. Maybe if they are interested in reconciling, but otherwise, no.</p>

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<p>Marriage counselors do what they do to make money. </p>

<h1>1 Marriage counselors know most of the husbands are only there because of the wife’s insistence.</h1>

<h1>2 Marriage counselors know if they don’t support the wife’s point of view, neither of them will show up next week. No money.</h1>

<p>I never been there myself but every man and most women who have tell me its a fixed game.</p>

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<p>Well, I don’t know…in what world I live or if it is that I don’t have a “huge” circle of friends where those types of situations occur:
-Most of my friends go to church.
-My friends have been married for more than 15 years.
-All of them have children.
-***The wives take pride in looking good; simple makeup, nice tops, care for exercising and healthy food. They take care of how they look, but not in the expensive side. I will say this is really important too.
-These friends listen music!
-These families have something else in common: Traditionally, the family eats dinner together and during weekends their own breakfast. For example when my kids lived at home we prayed, ate our dinner at the table, and had conversations.
-All have children which they adore and raised them with manners and with desire to excel in sports or academic or both.
-Husbands are respectful of the other couples wives and they know boundaries.
-Husbands are a little bit in the heavy side but they are respectful with their respective wives and they adore their kids and H and W spend time with their own family.
-There are recreation too, once a year each family, as I know, take a week of vacation.
-Some of my friends work others stay at home… All of them are proud of their work or stay home jobs.
-They celebrate special occasions.
-Husbands help with the home chores (Yard, Laundry, garage, pets, taking kids to sports), but I notice that Wife still has the heavy load…
-Arguments…yes every couple argue. But also it is healthy to stick together in good and bad times and to know how to overcome the moments that feelings has been hurt.

  • I don’t see my friend too often, but I have observed the same traits in those families.</p>
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<h1>2 Marriage counselors know if they don’t support the wife’s point of view, neither of them will show up next week. No money. *</h1>

<p>My sister is a marriage counselor/therapist and she would disagree with you. That’s not how it works. Generally, each side tells his/her story. The therapist takes an “intake” from each person. </p>

<p>There isn’t any “taking sides.” However, when one spouse brings up something that the other spouse would normally deny/ignore/rationalize at home, that’s when it gets interesting. When faced with a third party that will throw the penalty flag on obvious BS, often the spouse will admit rather than deny. </p>

<p>For instance, if both spouses work full-time, and the H refuses to do any housework (calling it "women’s work), he knows he can’t get away with that BS to a counselor (no matter if it’s a male or female). Or, if the wife allows herself one night out drinking with the gals each week, but won’t allow her H the same, she knows that won’t fly to a counselor (even if she gives a BS excuse at home.)</p>

<p>Spouses realize this. That’s why often the spouse that really knows he/she is in the wrong, doesn’t want to go to a counselor. They know the BS flag is going to get pulled if they say the same crap that they say at home.</p>

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<p>If the grass is greener on the other side, you can bet that the water bill is higher.</p>

<p>People need to learn not to let perfect be the enemy of really good. Especially since perfect is usually an abstract idea that doesn’t exist in real life.</p>

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<p>This thread has really been eye-opening for me (serious, not sarcastic). I live in a house hold where I have two happily married parents of 20+ years. </p>

<p>My mom has NEVER worn make-up and she has gained probably about 100 lbs in the last few years (because she has Grave’s disease).
My father was in a car accident and lost most of his memory for a while and became a complete jack*** as his personality did a 180. (Most of his personality and memories are back now, except for my childhood :/).
My parents had both been unemployed for more than a year together and routinely lived at home for months on end with one another, with very few breaks.
None of us are religious or go to church.
My dad routinely has hot 20somethings hit on him and throw themselves at him (in front of me and my mom no less).
They have had major arguments that many couples would have divorced over.
They routinely “pass gas” in front of one another.
They have each had long hospitalizations (my mom fighting cancer and Grave’s disease, my father with his accident and numerous surgeries).
We have been middle class and we have been poverty level and it’s been up and down my whole life.
My mom is an alcoholic who has been battling addiction since she was in her late teens. </p>

<p>All of these reasons have been given for why people cheat and yet my parents are probably the strongest couple I know. I honestly cannot imagine any of these issues breaking any one up or “causing” someone to cheat on their spouse (then again, I couldn’t understand cheating in any situation). It is DEFINITELY a character flaw and it is NOT ok to blame the spouse that has been cheated on. If someone wants to cheat, they need to go to a family counselor and figure out (both parties) why that person is even CONSIDERING cheating. </p>

<p>PS: My parents each have an ex. My mom’s first husband physically abused her and my dad’s first wife stole a bunch of stuff from him, forged his signature, and did all kinds of things. </p>

<p>b&p- I rarely agree with you :stuck_out_tongue: but I think your posts have been spot on.</p>

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<p>The above post is very well-stated. Thanks!</p>

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<p>Wow, I’m surprised by how cavalier some people are towards cheating. I wonder if it’s a generational thing. Most people I know in the 20s to 30s MIGHT forgive cheating the first time and will kick the cheater out the second time. (I haven’t seen any big difference in percentage between males/females cheating, incidentally.)</p>

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<p>That is what pornography is for. Or, alternatively, an open relationship. (After talking it over with the spouse, naturally.)</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone is cavalier about cheating, especially if you are the one who has been cheated on. </p>

<p>"That is what pornography is for. Or, alternatively, an open relationship. (After talking it over with the spouse, naturally.) "</p>

<p>Pornography could never replace the real thing. An open relationship? How old is the person who wrote this? :-)</p>

<p>I’ve read articles about how women associate sex with love and romance, and men are looking for , um, just the sex please. It seems the failure to note this difference creates a lot of problems.</p>

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<p>I believe that women definitely underestimate men’s need for sex and in my view men underestimate women’s need for emotional connection, especially with the one they are having sex with - not sure if it’s actually underestimating or choosing to ignore. Cheating may be the excuse but that is all it is. I too believe cheating is a character flaw. It is dishonest and selfish and destroys much in a family; shame on those who do it. End the marriage if you truly can’t fix it but don’t end it in such an undignified way.</p>

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<p>I don’t know if this had been said before. I think it take BOTH partners in a marriage to make it work. It only takes ONE partner in a marriage to make it fail. It one of them have commitment/moral/whatever issues the marriage can fail no matter how hard the other partner tried. </p>

<p>I remember once I was in Europe, can’t remember which country now, during that Hugh Grant cheating on Elizabeth Hurley thing, remember them ? Hurley must be part of some advertising campaign then, because everywhere I went there were these huge billboards of her. I remember on one occasion sitting at some bus stop waiting for the bus and idly staring at this humongous picture of Hurley. As I was looking at her beautiful face and figure I thought, it’s HIM, not her.</p>

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<p>PS: My parents each have an ex. My mom’s first husband physically abused her and my dad’s first wife stole a bunch of stuff from him, forged his signature, and did all kinds of things. </p>

<p>Unusual story…Lucky the are at the end… they found their soulmates in each other…after so much suffering they needed to stick together and appreciate what love really is: to love eachother as they knew each other for first time…and keep love nurture. Best wishes for that couple!</p>

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<p>*I don’t know if this had been said before. I think it take BOTH partners in a marriage to make it work. It only takes ONE partner in a marriage to make it fail. If one of them has commitment/moral/whatever issues the marriage can fail no matter how hard the other partner tried. *</p>

<p>This is true. There are some people that just don’t think fidelity is that important. In such cases, it doesn’t matter how wonderful the other spouse is, the ethically-challenged spouse will cheat. </p>

<p>Some people just really lack an inner moral compass.</p>

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<p>I remember the Hugh Grant incident also, because the prostitute IMHO was ugly! All I thought was you risked Elizabeth Hurley for her?</p>

<p>Yrs ago there was a huge scandal at the AF base we were stationed at and a lot of mud was flying. One wife found out her husband had cheated on her due to mud flying. This girl was Elizabeth Hurley beautiful, and on top of that she was the nicest person you would ever meet. People were stunned and could not figure out why he did it. One night over a glass or two or three of wine, she opened up and broached the subject of his infidelity. Through counseling she came to understand and forgive him. As lame as an excuse this might sound, this was it, and I got it.</p>

<p>He told her that he felt inferior to her. She was the complete package and felt he never was good enough for her. He saw how men looked at her, how they envied him because she chose him. Then when a complete stranger paid attention to him, it propped up his ego and made him feel better about himself. He realized that the adultery act was born out of his own flaws, and it had nothing to do with her.</p>

<p>I also think there are different levels of adultery, and some are easier to get over or at least move on. A one night stand is not the same to me as an affair. I know myself and I could never get over an affair. I just couldn’t due to my fathers infidelity.</p>

<p>Yes, I said they should at least tell the spouse before they act upon it. I still stand by it. Before Bullet and I got married that was one promise I made him make to me. I think by not telling the spouse that is more of a knife in the heart because not only you get in someone else’s bed, you also intentionally broke the trust issue. You put yourself and your needs above everyone else’s in the family. You basically screwed them over while screwing someone else. </p>

<p>If you love your mate even if the passion is gone, than out of love you would always be respectful to them, and treat their emotions as identical to yours. You would not want to find out of an affair after it occurred if the positions were reversed, thus, why wouldn’t you treat them like you would want to be treated.</p>

<p>Marriages can survive an affair, but the cheating spouse has to understand like Dr Phil says you will pay for this as long as she needs you to pay for it. You will have to reassure them as long as they demand it. That is the price you will pay to save the marriage and if you can’t then walk away now because there is no hope.</p>

<p>I always say that sometimes divorce happens because we as mere mortals don’t understand that we were not put together by God, but just by our own doing. What God really puts together no man can put asunder. That’s the whole thing, maybe you just weren’t destined to be together, maybe you placed yourself on this path and now someone else down the road is your true soul mate.</p>

<p>One thing I have never been able to grasp is why any woman would knowingly get involved with a married man? It just screams to me that they are flawed as bad as the man, because they are either insecure or selfish, either way it is not a characteristic I would ever be proud of as a person.</p>

<p>I also believe in the adage, if he cheats on her with you, what makes you think he won’t do it to you? Mistresses believe that he loves them more and differently than his spouse, but in the end of the day, he really doesn’t, he just loves himself more than either of you two.</p>

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<p>^^agree that often one who cheats loves himself more than anyone else ~ I think some spouses, perhaps the OP’s sister’s husband, live in a universe that they believe revolves around them. The arrogance and narcissism lead them to believe they are so special that rules and consequences don’t apply to them, they can have the spouse at home, and all that brings, (which they often actually want undisturbed) as well as the extra gf on the side. as brilliant as they may be in their professional worlds, they often don’t think about natural consequences, like loss of love and respect of their children, etc. As other posters have pointed out they often destroy and lose so much in the wake of their actions, that they never anticipated. </p>

<p>I agree that it takes two to make a relationship work but one can wreak havoc alone…</p>

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<p>Question: How many women here would stay if they found out that their spouse had a long term affair or multiple one night stands?</p>

<p>Why would you stay?</p>

<p>Like I said for me it would be over. I also detest the " for the kids excuse". I think to be a good parent you need them to have true models within their parents. I think if you stay for the kids you are sending the wrong message to the kids. You say to them be a doormat or it’s okay to cheat. By staying because you love them is one thing, but staying because at least they have a family is not a good enough reason. </p>

<p>My Mom loved my Dad with all of her heart and she chose to try to work it out, but in the end they just didn’t make it. In the end she said to him ME or HER. He chose the HER, however, by her standing up and raising us kids on her own. That one action made me say if it ever happened to me, I too would survive and it was okay to demand to be the only love in your spouses life, and accept nothing less for yourself. Maybe had she stayed I would have still had a “family”, but I bet that if Bullet strayed on me, I would stay because that’s what my Mom did. Bullet knows that adultery to me is the line in the sand, and before he crosses it he might as well serve divorce papers because he will not be coming back home to my bed after leaving hers.</p>

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<p>I also detest the " for the kids excuse".</p>

<p>I don’t like that excuse either, but I do know some people that have gone that route simply out of economics. The family didn’t earn enough to support two households, so to divorce would mean total financial chaos for the kids (which we’ve all seen here on CC when the ex won’t/can’t help with college).</p>

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<p>Anything could happen to anybody, everybody’s situation is unique and nobody is there to judge or being perfect. However, in cases of public figures it might be all different story because their jobs might be at stake since people do have right to judge or thier personal life situation might be even specified in thier job contract.</p>

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<p>My H and I were separated for over a year- about 13 years ago, not because of cheating.
We have gone to therapy off and on many times & it has been helpful or not depending on therapist.</p>

<p>For instance the most recent therapist we used was recommended by a friend of mine, who was seeing him with her H. However, he was ( the therapist) abusive to me- actually physically in a " demonstration", and we stopped seeing him- my friend stopped seeing him as well for a similar reason, but her husband kept seeing him for a while.</p>

<p>The best therapist we ever had, was an MSW that I started seeing when I became pregnant- as she dealt with post partum issues ( which I had, had before), I kept seeing her after the pregnancy and then we began seeing her as a couple for a long time, then H was seeing her by himself- which was amazing, as she was the only therapist he was willing to go to on an ongoing basis by himself before.</p>

<p>Very compassionate and clear, and extremely good about not assigning blame but in bringing the real issue to light. Tragically, she contracted ovarian cancer and died a short time later. :frowning: Really miss her</p>

<p>She was really so good, and we had gone through so many others who weren’t that even though we have wanted to find another therapist at times- it is hard when you feel that it will be disappointing.</p>

<p>Even if my H/ or I had done something that all but broke up our marriage ( and it would depend on circumstances- whatever it was)- I would still advocate for therapy in order to get to a place where we could still be parents to our kids and behave appropriately.</p>