It looks like the OP is already limiting the support to tuition (the daughter has a 20 hour per week job for other money) and will be requiring the daughter to pay back the amount of the lawyer fees and whatever other costs there are from this arrest.
Good. Thanks, ucb. Missed that.
The fact is, a record could potentially have a dramatic, and negative, impact, on her employment opportunities. Another equal candidate, without a “record”, and who is an employer going to choose? Would her internship opportunity still be available to her if they found out about her recent choices? Post graduate, what if she wants to apply for a government job, or internship, or something where she is working with children? Employers have the capability of looking at all sorts of records, and competition is fierce, so a persons record should be a clean as possible…on the legal side of things - get her a good attorney or, dependent upon the court system where you are, and since she’s over 18 and would likely qualify as “indigent” with regards to her right to an attorney (i.e. she could be appointed one), go that route. While furious at her, teaching her a lesson by letting her figure out things legally, at this stage, could be counter productive in many ways - i.e. she could have a “record” moving forward. Court appointed attorneys are typically the ones in the courtroom hallways, and handling hundreds of cases in front of the Judges regularly, so they really do know the ropes in cases like this…As for her poor choices, which we all make, hopefully it’s not a sign of an issue that could be long term, and that should certainly be addressed, but at the least she should be smart enough to understand the consequence that you, the parent, will impose if she makes such a stupid choice again in the future. If someone out there can figure out what consequence we as parents can implement such that the mere fear of the consequence will keep our children from making such poor choices, please let me know.
You daughter doesn’t seem to fear consequences because she knows you will do all you can to mitigate them. I would not call, hire or loan the money for any attorney. If she feels she needs one, she can call one and figure out how to hire and pay him. She is not facing much more than a stiff fine and community service hours, and some judges might require attendance of an AA meeting. She needs you to stand back and let the maximum consequences take effect. Whether you like it or not she has a drinking problem. She drinks: she has legal problems.
I had a friend in college who got caught for drunk driving. (Far worse than what your daughter has done.) Her parents took her car away and told her to find her own lawyer. She got a bicycle and she paid for her own lawyer. After court her license was suspended for six months and she had to enroll in an alcohol prevention program. She had to pay a couple of thousand dollars in fines. After a couple of years when she bought her own car and was ready to drive again she had to pay for high risk insurance for several years. We are still friends. This was many years ago and she never drives after a drink. Her parents made a good choice IMO.
OP, you and your H are in the driver’s seat now, so take over the wheel.
Your D’s behavior at the very least alarms you, whether or not you are at the point of concluding she has a serious problem. You have tried threats and withholding money, and making her pay for mistakes, but she knows full well that her financial needs will ultimately be met, so this does not concern her. So, you need to step up your game and hit her where it hurts. I’m thinking her privacy at this point.
This is not a recommendation I make lightly, but this girl - tho clearly smart and capable - is acting like a 12 year old let loose in a candy store. Starting next semester, every penny spent needs to be monitored. She turns over all passwords to all bank accounts, credit cards, etc and she is not permitted to buy a stick of gum that you don’t approve first. At the end of each day, she emails you an accounting of every dime spent, and you can reconcile it to make sure it is accurate. She also turns over all passwords to her social media accounts (FB, twitter, instagram, etc).
This includes all passwords to her college grades and possibly email accounts.
Is this extreme? I think it is extremely extreme, but this girl sounds like she has a very promising future, yet is on the brink of venturing into some dangerous waters. Yes, she’s an “adult” now and you have no enforceable right to invade her privacy, but you are paying for all this decadence and she is not changing one bit.
Will this take a burdensome amount of time to monitor on your end? Oh, yes. But the amount of time it could take to undue a smoking addiction or drinking problem would be much greater. If she flies straight for a semester, you can ease up next fall.
If you have not had any issues before this,I’m would say it’s still just an immature young person caught at the wrong peace wrong time, When I think of all the times I could have been arrested at my big 10 school I cringe. One time I was driving home from a bar on a one way street down the wrong way one the main square! I had a fake ID. I wasn’t an alcoholic, but had a few puke sessions in college. Why did I never get caught? Well,I’m think because they weren’t as strict about drinking in the late 70’s, early 80’s.
I would get her a lawyer in a nanosecond. If she has funds she could pay some. It will probably cost about $3,500 or so. I think she will learn from this. If it were my child I would leave her in school. What purpose would there be in taking a 3.9 kid out of school when she’s half done? If it happens again and she hadn’t learned from this experience, then at that point you might want to talk about seeing a counselor. But for now, I’d keep her on track with her education while that brain keeps maturing.
But I’d be mad as hell and my kids would know it. I would probably tell them if it happened again, then they have to sit out a semester while they got their shit together and I’d be that crude. And no smoking in my house!
I’m sorry you are going throught this!
The smoking would never get a pass from me. I would withdraw my financial support in order to try to save her life. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter what “normal” is, or what other people’s kids are doing. You know, to some degree, what your kid is doing. You can choose to intervene, or not. Ball is in your court.
You may not like my take on things, but trust me I’ve been in your shoes. My DS was on social probation 2 times in his first two years. We did read him the riot act since the drinking and partying also hurt his grades. The turn around came in a "come to Jesus"talk where we suggested he take a semester off and get a real job (a.k.a. burger king therapy) we made a written agreement expressing our specific expectations and what he needed to do if he chose to continue school.
Luckily we had a great outcome, drinking has been reduced, grades are better, he is generally more mature and just turned 21.
Not sure if you are willing to hold her accountable, or if it would be effective, but maybe it would be just the ticket.
Historically the drinking age has been 18. Sovereign states were blackmailed by the federal government into changing the drinking age to 21. In my view, those between 18 and 21 should certainly avoid arrest, but the only real way to get these stupid laws changed is for students to ignore them as much as possible.
As part of the rise in the drinking age many colleges have pushed all of the “partying” off campus. As a result, 18- to 20-year-old students frequently get caught using fake IDs and whatever. But society shouldn’t be telling them they can’t drink in the first place.
You should praise your daughter for standing up for her rights, but point out that it is stupid to get caught repeatedly.
Standing up for her rights can lead to negative consequences. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell her that she has rights. Underage drinking is illegal.
I have told this story a few times here on CC. I will tell it again. A former coworkers son went to a house party here in CT, shoreline area. Very upscale/suburban. He was 3 days shy of his 19th bday. The homeowners were home and allowed underage drinking. So much that this young man passed out on the couch. Or so they thought. When they couldn’t wake him, the parents and kids put him into the car and dumped him at the E.R. It was too late, he was dead. Though OPs dd isn’t attending house parties, she is still drinking in excess. Young minds/bodies are not able to handle alcohol. They tend to have a “balls to the wall” mind set. They have no idea how to pace themselves and the booze is not often not discernable in a vat of “punch”. So they drink without much thought. Often times with tragic consequences.
I don’t agree with 21 drinking age, and most kids drink before 21, but not that many kids get in trouble with the law 3 times in few months. It is no different than most of us do not drive within speed limit, but we also do not get speeding tickets that often. What is concerning to me here is OP’s D is reckless and making poor choices. If she is not mature enough to protect herself, then she shouldn’t be drinking or even be away at school.
A lot of young people do not think beyond present and it is parents’ job to make sure they understand consequences of their actions. Almost every employer do background and drug test prior to any employment, even for summer internships.
My friend’s kid was offered a dream job (private equity) upon graduation, but the stipulation was with signing of the agreement he had to do a drug test within a week. Unfortunately over the weekend he had smoked pot and was concerned if it would show up. The kid was so concerned he tried to delay signing of the contract. My friend couldn’t understand why his action until his son finally told him the reason. My friend was furious. He said to his son, “You worked hard your whole life so you could get a job like this, and you were willing to throw it out over something as stupid as this.”
I was recently offered a “dream job” recently. Again, they did a full background check on me. They pulled my credit report, checked for any criminal record, and called my previous employers. If there was any blemish, I could potentially not be hired.
A very senior person at my previous company was offered a great job in the US (she was from UK). She had moved to NY with full announcement to the firm. After few weeks of her arrival, she was sent back to UK because she couldn’t get a work permit due to her previous criminal record in the US. Apparently she got into a bar brawl many years ago when she was young and stupid.
I could go on with many examples. OP, have a come to Jesus conversation with your D now. Tell her that she will have a hard time in getting employment with any police record, even with a 3.9 GPA.
Absolutely Oldfort, I totally agree with you.
I am late to this discussion. Lots of good advice and thoughts already offered. I have been lucky enough not to face this problem, so I have to reach back to my own youthful drinking for ideas.
Young people drink. The key is doing it 1) responsibly and 2) legally, or at least without legal consequences. OP, is your D doing it responsibly? You say she doesn’t drive----can’t drive because no car. That is an important part of the equation, but not the whole. I’d also be worried about her being taken advantage of if she drinks too much. Also, as noted above, she needs to be aware of any long term consequences, a point which overlaps with drinking without legal consequences. Way back in the Dark Ages we got a big lecture from a law prof about DWIs and how they could keep us from ever working as lawyers. That was back when the movement to make DWIs have stiffer penalties was just gaining momentum.
How is she reacting to this latest issue? Is she remorseful? Upset? Resolving to drink less or at least be more discrete?
Making her pay for the lawyer is a great idea. I am surprised you can get away with grounding her.
If she were my child, I would have a big talk with her expressing my parental upset and concern, but also laying out the more general adult worries I had: how much and how often IS she drinking? does she have activities/friends that don’t involve drinking? as mentioned above, do friends watch out for each other when drinking? have friends been sexually assaulted? does she understand the legal/employment consequences of these charges?
I don’t disagree with the need to try to have a clean record, but remember that there are a lot of restrictions on what an employer can do and use regarding criminal background checks. Only convictions can be considered and they have to be related to an element of the job. There are new laws on this every few weeks it seems. A college minor in possession charge that results in deferred adjudication isn’t likely to be a deal-breaker for a post-college job.
This isn’t an AA situation. It is a case of immaturity, impulsiveness, poor decision making and some bad luck. I have a kid who was like that in college and was extremely high-achieving in academics and athletics. It’s tough to deal with as a parent.
Post 48…so you are advocating for students to break the law, endanger their lives, etc so that the drinking age will be lowered to 18 again? Really.
I find this disturbing.
This is immaturity, poor decision making, and perhaps bad luck. The kid needs to know why she is putting herself in this position…repeatedly. It’s not a crisis now, perhaps…but it sure could turn into one if it repeats again, and again…and again.
Who was the CC poster some years back (a male underage college student) who suddenly stopped posting because he died from alcohol poisoning?
In my state your legal record is viewable online. Not just convictions. It might not be my sole factor, but if I see someone with a string of legal entanglements, whether they were convicted or not, they probably aren’t the candidate for my company.
If it were me, I’d be really upset. I have two at college, neither have cars, and neither have gotten into any trouble.
Is your d defiant in general? Does she have problem with authority?
People may not like the 21 year old drinking age, but it’s the law of the land. And go see any alcohol education class and they will tell you how much harder it is for teens to metabolize alcohol. And the later you start drinking, the less likely you are to become an alcoholic. There is no “need” for teens to drink.
Eyeamom- Just be aware that you are likely breaking the law yourself by considering legal “entanglements” in the hiring process. Trust me on this- I deal wih it evey day as an employment lawyer.
The OP’s daughter is in a sorority. This is probably the source of a lot of the pressure to drink and smoke, at least when she is at college. Quitting the sorority might be an appropriate consequence and also help her change her behavior.
“H as an MD and I as someone who spent many years in social work know quite a bit about the disease, and although D’s drinking is certainly a problem we’re not concerned that this is alcoholism…'d love for her to give it up altogether until she’s 21, but H and I aren’t sure how to do that without resorting to threats we’d be uncomfortable following through on.”
It’s easy to be experts with someone else’s kids and be in denial about your own (speaking as a professional with counseling degree, whose own daughter ended up self-mutilating).
YOUR DAUGHTER HAS A PROBLEM. She does not seem to know how to act responsibly with alcohol. Smoking is sometimes an indicator of passive suicide/self-punishment. Yes, others drink, but they do not get into the problems she is having. I doubt that it is just dumb luck that she has now been in trouble three times.
Get a back bone. Tell her she needs to at least meet with a therapist for a (non-parental) evaluation and then follow that professional’s recommendation in order to keep attending college. One more arrest or disciplinary action and she is done with college at your expense.
And in answer to someone else’s post about underage drinking not having an impact on future employment. My teacher daughter and Physician Assistant daughter would both have been denied licenses if they had had convictions for drinking offenses. My professional standing can be pulled if I have ever been arrested - even without conviction.