<p>This is a little bit of a digression, but our school does something with lower level math students that I think is a good idea. It really doesn’t matter what the math class is, some kids just need longer to acquire the information. A few of our math classes spread a normal year-long course out over two years (thus, Geometry Part I and Geometry Part II). This is a good idea because merely taking a course a year later isn’t going to help some kids, while going slower will. So, we have remedial, regular, honors and AP in some subjects. I find that much of the class behavior depends on what the teacher will tolerate, although honors and AP classes tend to have more motivated students.</p>
<p>^^Does Geom. part 1 and part 2 count as two separate courses? Our kids must have 4 units of math (taken during high sch./mid. sch. doesn’t count) to graduate. So that wouldn’t work here.
I have heard that freshman at our school can take Alg. 1 part A in the fall and part B in the spring (rather than finish the whole course in 1 semester which is the norm here)</p>
<p>We need 4 “years” of math for graduation, so I guess if a kid qualifies for the slower paced class, it counts as two years. They need to be recommended for these extended classes though, so kids can’t just take it for an easy grade. I think math is the most disparate class we have. Some students barely complete Algebra II during hs while others who took Algebra II in 9th grade can complete two years of AP Calculus.</p>
<p>We have something similar except it stretches the three year math curriculum over four years. So you get through Algebra 1, Algebra 2 and Geometry. They also offered a course for those who had finished AP Calculus BC.</p>
<p>“I’ve heard this from my kids and many others: If an AP class is offered, it will suck enough good students out of the “regular” or “honors” sections to ensure that the non-AP course is a second-rate experience, regardless of teacher quality or whether an AP course fits within a particular student’s plans.”</p>
<p>I’ve heard this happens at many/most schools that offer AP or Honors classes. There’s just no way around the fact that those classes are going to get the “cream of the crop”. Schools need to encourage the teachers of regular classes to motivate those students to do their best. </p>
<p>Some may say that honors/AP classes shouldn’t exist for the above reason, but that’s like saying we shouldn’t have better colleges because they, too, get the cream.</p>
<p>This lower quality of student in the regular courses causes many kids who should really take the regular level class and do quite well at it to rather sign up for honors/AP classes. Most of this is parental pressure, but some is instigated by the kids. Then what happens is that these kids are in over their heads, the teachers resent that their classes are overcrowded, and the mis-assigned kids end up with a poor experience and a poor grade. I think jlauer is right about making the regular classes better and stop viewing them as the dregs. Discipline problems belong in detention, not in the regular track classrooms.</p>
<p>Sure, students can learn more in ‘regular’ classes. It depends on the teacher. Some are truly gifted.</p>
<p>The only “regular” classes I have found to be interesting are ones that are simply unique in nature. The two I’ve taken are Leadership Development (otherwise known as Student Government) and Humanities. Unlike others I’ve sacrificed a higher GPA (and not to mention my top spot in the class) to take these classes…and I don’t regret it. They are the two best classes I have ever taken. Like the person above me has stated, the teachers were simply amazing and encouraged us to do things not only in class but also outside of it. These classes completely changed my worldview and I am thankful that I took them. So…if there are any interesting or unique classes offered that don’t give honors or AP credit…go for it. I honestly think taking a class in something you are curious or passionate about is much more important than your GPA…</p>
<p>Well, if the AP teacher is horrible and the regular teacher is great, then YES. Unfortunately, I was stuck with the former…</p>
<p>In retrospect raimius, do you wish you passed on the extra grade weighting and went for the better teacher?</p>
<p>My kid seemed to be learning so much in his honors English class from an excellent teacher that I suggested he try the AP Lang test at the end of the year. He made a 5, surprising even the teacher. Many of his buddies in the AP class got 3’s. It’s all about the teacher.</p>
<p>One of the issues I’m most concerned with is the actual qualification of people who teach AP classes in High School. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that the AP program was created so that students could take college-level courses while still in HS. An AP class should be therefore, in all respects, ** equivalent to ** a similar freshman college class. Equivalence in this sense means not only a similar syllabus and similar performance assessment/grading standards, but also similar qualification for the instructors. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, whereas no one without a PhD or at least a master’s degree is normally allowed to teach Calculus I in any top research university or LAC, AP Calculus (which is supposed to give credit for college Calc I) is taught in many high schools by instructors with a bachelor’s degree only.</p>
<p>"An AP class should be therefore, in all respects, equivalent to a similar freshman college class. Equivalence in this sense means not only a similar syllabus and similar performance assessment/grading standards, but also similar qualification for the instructors. </p>
<p>^^^ So true. My kids took APs that were definitely college-comps (and they had to work HARD to get an A or B), and some were just regular old high school classes dressed up in AP clothes. There is no WAY that my son will get A’s in his college English and Humanities classes as easily as he did in his high school APs. It’s laughable. I’m not sure if it’s the teacher was being a pushover, or there was a deliberate effort to dumb down the standards in those classes. It just seems rather ridiculous when you have kids making As and Bs in AP classes, but they can’t break 1100 on the SAT. Something is definitely out of whack.</p>
<p>Last night was Open House/Mini School, so I got a chance to listen to what my son’s teachers had to say about the AP classes they were teaching. Honestly, it made me think less of the AP classes than I did before. More accurately, it made me despair of the public school system and wish my son was in a selective private school. </p>
<p>Every one of the teachers essentially said they were teaching to the test. They said how they would be doing questions from old AP tests in class, as homework, etc. It sounded as if the AP Psych teacher was actually teaching from Barrons…but she has a 91% pass rate, so who’s to criticize. </p>
<p>So, in order to have a “rigorous course of study”, DS is basically taking his freshman year of college in 11th grade. What happened to being in 11th grade?</p>
<p>^^^^
And my daughter’s frustrated in her APUSH class this semester because the teacher isn’t lecturing. It’s being taught without regards to how quickly they must get through this book. They just spent 5 days doing a mock patriots/loyalists debate. And she’s going … whoa! we’re farther behind than the honors classes are. She loves her teacher, but she’s thinking of all the independent study she’s going to have to be doing to get ready for this test. </p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p>I think our kids should switch classes, zebes. Last night the APUSH teacher commented that she’s been teaching for 23 years and has never NOT finished the book! (I thought that she must be pretty darned compulsive if that is what she’s proud of!)</p>
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<p>I never had a high school history teacher that finished the book. US history ended somewhere around 1900, World history somewhere in WWI (and no, I’m not that old!) So I’d view it as competence.</p>
<p>This is an interesting discussion. I’m still trying to see past the PC speak to find out which classes are best in the long run.</p>