<p>You don’t think unions are a major factor in the problem? Don’t take my word for it. Check out the LA Times report linked in post #161:</p>
<p>Excerpt:</p>
<p>"Faced with such frustrations, many principals don’t even attempt to navigate the firing process. Letting a bad teacher slide or making him someone else’s problem is far easier than trying to document his failings, some say.</p>
<p>The prospect of union grievances, and a protracted battle against labor representatives and attorneys, makes the endeavor even less appealing.</p>
<p>Joseph Walker, a former principal of Grant High School in Van Nuys, was sued by a special education teacher whom he tried to dismiss for alleged repeated sexual harassment. A civil jury sided with Walker – but the review commission decided the teacher shouldn’t be fired. The case, now in the courts, has dragged on seven years.</p>
<p>Confronting uphill battles like this, Walker said: “You’re not going to fire someone who’s not doing their job. And if you have someone who’s done something really egregious, there’s only a 50-50 chance that you can fire them.”</p>
<p>Walker is now principal of Discovery Charter Preparatory Academy in Pacoima, where he said he had fired three teachers so far this year. None were fired during his three years as head of Grant. The difference: His school’s teachers are not unionized and can be fired at will."</p>
<p>Unions are not the problem- a poorly drafted contract may be- that is managements fault, a lazy administrator who likes to blame the “system” rather than do his job may be. Teachers have no more protection than my workers have. I appreciate how many of you are willing to coddle me and make excuses for me. It is nice to know I do not have to do my job and so many people are willing to let me blame the “system”. Thanks.</p>
<p>Again I will say it isn’t just the quality of teaching, it’s also the curriculum itself. Ever asked who writes the social studies text books in use in our public schools. What are the actual science qualifications of those writing our middle school science textbooks? It’s the smoking gun in this whole debate, imo.</p>
<p>It’s amazing how due process protections are cast as evidence of the “evil unions” I have said many times on these forums that in the vast majority of cases a union cannot save a teacher from an administrator who is willing to roll up their sleeves and see the process through. Certainly I’m not an authority on teachers’ unions every where but in most cases a well prepared administrator will win every time. I’ve personally seen it many times in my role as a building union rep.</p>
<p>Were the unions not a party to the contracts? Unions are the ones favoring and negotiating for the excessive and endless appeals and administrative delays in the firing process. It’s a shame the administrators ever gave in and agreed to any of these terms, but they are not the ones pushing them.</p>
<p>What I can’t understand is, if the unions truly have the welfare of teachers at heart, why aren’t they on exactly the opposite side of their current positions in these disputes? The best thing unions could do to promote the careers of teachers in general and restore them to their former place of high public esteem would be to join in the effort, in fact lead the effort, to get rid of bad teachers instead of seeking to block the process at every turn.</p>
<p>Do you think the union negotiate the tenure hearing process?</p>
<p>restore them to their former place of high public esteem would be to join in the effort, in fact lead the effort, to get rid of bad teachers instead of seeking to block the process at every turn. - when they were poorly paid?
The unions role in the process is not to protect bad teachers it is to make sure that all teachers get due process.</p>
<p>^^But the process has gone way beyond “due” and into the realm of flagrant obstruction and delay. We have due process at my company too, but it takes a few weeks to get rid of a bad employee, not years.</p>
<p>But how is to the advantage of teachers or teachers unions to keep the lazy and incompetent in the profession? Seems like simple pride in what should be a noble profession would inspire the unions to help get rid of the losers. Instead they seek to build an impregnable fortress of "due process’ to defend them.</p>
<p>As someone upstream pointed out, keeping bad teachers makes good teachers’ jobs harder. Woe to the good Algebra II teacher who inherits the students of the crappy Algebra I teacher.</p>
<p>The teachers union did not create the tenure hearing process. They are also well within their rights to use every step that the process allows. Everyone always throws up the NYC rubber room but do you realize every person in that room has not had the first step charge filed- known as a Laudermill hearing. That is the simple filing of the charges. Once you have a Laudermill the person is no longer paid they still have appeal rights and steps to challenge the termination or suspension. Is it the unions fault that NYC will not even hold the preliminary hearing?</p>
<p>If they are able to negotiate it with their employer sure. I read about CEO contracts all the time that seem to be poorly negotiated by the company. It is a shame the regular middle class worker has not been able to negotiate better job protections for himself.
I have also stated here many times- if we want a true partisan political spoils system in government say so. Otherwise your average employee needs protection from politics.</p>
<p>Bay- here is where I am coming from. I believe in rules. Let me know what they are and I will follow them. If I do not like the rules I will advocate to change them. If I do not get my way I will still adhere to the rules that were agreed to. I do not find it acceptable to say I accepted the job and knew the rules but now want to blame the rules as the reason I can not do my job. I believe in negotiations between parties I do not expect someone negotiating with me to negotiate for me against their own self- interest. There are certain matters that should be non-negotiable and from which I will not retreat. If someone bests me in a negotiation it is up to me the next go around to fix that clause.</p>
<p>There are rights and laws. Then there are unions.
Is a job a “right”? How important is “performance” in activating that “right”? Ot is it a “contract”? Is a level of performance required in that contract?
Fairness is always a problem in the workplace, even in the best of well-run organizations. So is office politics. Work conditions do need to be monitored, however, the schools seem to have less resources than ever to improve these, even for the students. (SIGH)
To what extent should these tools be used to blunt such problems for workers?.. Can these tools do this? What role should management play? Can’t a manager’s performance be evaluated based on how he/she counteracts these problems, without the involvement of these external systems which are inefficient and expensive?
Whose job is it to enforce the “rules” from the ground up?</p>
<p>Discrimination due to gender and race and violations to work-rules are still extant, believe me. Perhaps these tools have moderated this.
But so are poor teaching and poor teachers. </p>
<p>Could it be argued by the rest of the teachers in a union negotiation that a poorly performing teacher is violating THEIR contracts? In a court of law that a poorly performing teacher is violating THEIR rights?</p>
<p>And how about the rights of tax-payers? students?</p>
<p>It is extremely important for the different players to have due process, no question.
But, do all of them really have this?</p>
<p>Teaching is hard and very very important, but it is not well paid, not held in as high esteem as it should be, and maybe not trained properly, and not managed or administered well in terms of results or economic efficiency. Classroom conditions are all over the map, with too many impeding the ability of a teacher to teach.
To me, scary and controversial as this may sound, these are more pressing issues than the exercise of law, preservation of rights, and due process, as important as they are.</p>
<p>A good teacher is like gold. Even a moment of good teaching is priceless. Amazingly, this does happen is a system with many challenges for teachers.</p>
<p>To me, scary and controversial as this may sound, these are more pressing issues than the exercise of law, preservation of rights, and due process, as important as they are.</p>
<p>So who gets to decide what those pressing issues are and what individuals get due process and which ones do not?</p>
<p>I would propose that the most important focus is: ARE the STUDENTS LEARNING, and LEARNING WHAT THEY NEED TO LEARN?
WHAT THINGS ARE WORKING?
{Including parents int the process would be a good idea, btw!}</p>
<p>Start from that point. Use a 360 degree evaluation, test scores, grades, rubrics across all aspects of the learning process, and look over the performance of the students in various areas. OBSERVE the classrooms, REVIEW the students’ work. Respectfully.
Provide support to the teachers when they have problems, To the parents and the students, too. It is a TEAM effort. So set SCHOOL-WIDE goals, too. Brainstorming is valuable, so reward it.</p>
<p>Compare the conditions in the classrooms.</p>
<p><strong><em>Reward the teachers who do well.</em></strong>* (use positive reinforcement not negative, a carrot rather than a stick)</p>
<p>Manage manage manage.</p>
<p>Subjectivity and so forth are impossible to avoid. But it would show up real fast if managers acted in contrast to the “results.”</p>
<p>To me, the key question is how to evaluate/measure whether teachers are doing well. </p>
<p>Teachers get so defensive about protecting their jobs.
How about looking for ways to elevate the value and esteem for good teaching, teachers?
Teachers, You ARE important. So act that way!</p>
<p>Sigh. Students aren’t being <em>paid</em> to be there. Teachers are. Yeah, nothing like the kid who likes throwing scissors up in the air to land wherever they may… :(</p>