<p>I’m curious to know how US test scores can even be measured to other countries. Each state in the US has their own tests. This is also interesting b/c NCLB states that students have to pass exams but allows the state to make up their own exams. So, states can make the exam easier if necessary. I guess that’s for an entirely different thread.</p>
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<p>Thanks but I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t want to be. The end of a school year is a great time to reflect, I feel. I don’t see this discussion as giving lumps to each other. I think it I informative and healthy to see things from different facets.</p>
<p>Would that more teachers and parents spent some time reflecting,evaluating and communicating. That’s how change is made. Even if we can’t fix the whole system here, the effort made at understanding is certainly worthwhile.</p>
<p>But, you have a point and I am off to do some gardening!</p>
<p>But before I go…lol. Red dinosaur, many states are adopting the common core standards that are national. I don’t know where you teach but my state is adopting them soon. Our states previous standards are actually more rigorous than the common core but by having national standards that are consistent from state to state, it helps to even the score. As far as comparing to other countries, well, that has always been difficult because the US is one of the few countries that educates every child right through grade 12. Many other countries do not and “track” kids into different educational systems. Not equal for all.</p>
<p>TheGFG- your post #338 explains why teachers want to know what the methodology will be in defining what is a good teacher- because they want to keep their jobs. Teachers also know that a “good teacher” is in the eyes of the beholder but right now their job is not based on who the beholder is. What they are afraid of is a ill defined system that can be manipulated to keep either the connected or the lowest paid. Most, I am not saying all, teachers do not mind being evaluated. They just want to know what they are going to be evaluated on.</p>
<p>I have another question about performance evaluations. Where I work all performance plans are set up between the supervisor and employee on an individual basis. They are not negotiated but the employee has input and ultimately signs off on the work agreement. Is that how it is done where you work? Would teachers all have an individual plan? We have some core components of everyone’s plan with individual modifications.</p>
<p>What do you mean by performance plan? </p>
<p>No, we don’t have anything in writing that lays out the various expectations of our job. We do have a contract that is agreed upon by the union and the school committee but that pertains more to work hours, sick time, etc.</p>
<p>As far as evaluations go, in our system the teacher and the principal set up a time to have the principal observe and evaluate and their is a rubric on which the assessment is based. My principal gives us this ahead of time so that we can anticipate the areas being assessed. The problem with this, as I see it, is that a planned eval doesn’t really give the principal a perfectly accurate picture of what that teacher is doing on a daily basis. Thus the need for “drive by” visits, IMO.</p>
<p>Their are three perspectives on the “performance”:
- how the students do ( do they advance to the next grade, test scores, grades, material covered…)
- what the teacher does (handing back work on time, detailed feedback, instruction that engages, that works across all the senses adn for all learning styles, etc.= same for ALL teachers)
- how the teacher does (reference to #1, and to more specific: are the students behaving, do they really understand the material, are they advancing throughout the year, are the students prepared for the next grade, is the teacher absent often, etc.)- the personal attributes of HOW a given teacher does their job, their style, their approach.</p>
<p>In corporations, all are considered. The evaluations is across some standards, but also is personalized- what the employee needs to do better on next time, etc.</p>
<p>Also, the evaluation often results in a new set of goals (revenues, profitability, work habits, projects completed, more training, different position…) for the employee with stipulation on exactly how those will be measured. </p>
<p>The evaluation is based on a 360 degree perspective, here: students, parents, other teachers for same students, and teachers of prior year’s students, administration.</p>
<p>In many corporations, salary and bonuses are actually tied to the evaluation=incentive compensation.</p>
<p>EPTR- a performance plan is the combination of goals and objectives of the organization and the key duties and expectations of the employee, There is a baseline and there are expectations and noted areas that need improvement. Significant events either good or bad are noted. performersmom laid out what her performance plan would look like but that is only her. It would be unfair to base an employees performance on that if the teachers supervisor did not feel those goals and objectives were worth reaching. That is why it is a must for the performance plan to let the employee know what are the organizations goals and objectives and what the employee is going to be evaluated on.
For example even though the goal of my organization is to collect unpaid taxes I am not allowed by law to base an employees evaluation on how much money they collect. You see the State legislature is afraid all my employees will turn into heartless Nazi’s if their evaluation was based on money collected.</p>
<p>Actually, those criteria in parentheses were only examples to give a clearer idea what I meant. Not my opinion.
I was just trying to give an idea of the basic categories needed to cover how to think about what someone does and how they do it.
Any or all input sources could be on all these.
EPTR-It might be interesting ask CC’ers what criteria they would feel are important to include, from any perspective.</p>
<p>It is more work, but managing does involve a collaboration in setting goals with the employee. And it is best to tie compensation somehow to performance. And the employee needs to know ahead of time what the goals, rubrics and expectations are.</p>
<p>I kind of got a sense that at one of my D’s schools that the administration wanted to “protect” the teachers from too much of this scrutiny, to give them more “respect” and “independence.” While I agree it can be annoying and demeaning to be judged quite specifically on certain measures, I felt that it was a way for the Head to maintain too much control over the teachers vs, the parents, as well as allowing things to get out of hand with certain teachers who needed more guidance.
At the other school, there was a revolving door of Heads, so the teachers were really running the school, or not running it LOL. NOT a good situation- lots of bad habits, personal BS with students, antiquated curriculum, lazy teaching, huge variation in the quality of teaching. But I bet the teachers were happy!!!</p>
<p>performersmom- even though those are only examples my point is the same. Employees need an understanding of what they are going to be evaluated on and be given clear organizational objectives.
Evaluations are a lot of work and unless you type " perfect in every way" on the evaluation there are going to be some hard feelings. </p>
<p>In a school who sets the objectives- the parents, the board of education, the super, the principal, the department heads? Who sets the measurements to determine if that one teacher met their portion of the objectives?</p>
<p>Big obstacles to this in PS system, clearly.
IMHO, Private schools, who DO have the flexibility to set things like this up, usually do not.
In a private school, the Head is accountable for performance to the Board. That puts it on the Head to handle the teachers and the curriculum, in the standard situation. It is hard for the Board to get beyond generalities when it comes to the teachers, even if the Head him/herself has a pretty specific pre-set performance evaluation. One sub-committee of the Board handles this evaluation.</p>
<p>In the real world, there is fear of not being able to hire or of losing good teachers if the schools gets unusually picky and systematic. But maybe it is a risk worth taking, if there is a way to involve the teachers in creating the guidelines, esp when they complain that the kids they inherit are not prepared or ready to sit quietly in a classroom to learn.
The teachers also might be more willing to help create a performance system if it involved rewards for good teaching under a fair evaluation system they help create.
If the Private schools rarely so this, hard to believe that Publics will.</p>
<p>A grass-roots political movement of teachers united with parents and administrators towards corporate style performance evaluation and compensation incentives is really the only hope for change, IMHO.
With money so tight , all this is unlikely.</p>
<p>To me, it is sooo important that we value [good] teachers more highly. That more go into the profession to compete for the jobs. That the training is excellent. That the profession is highly regarded and treated with respect. That teachers get paid more and are proud of what they do.
For instance, there should be more courses in all the departments at all the top universities about education, and more to incentive to the top students to go into teaching as a career. TFA is not enough.</p>
<p>I agree that teachers need to be evaluated in all aspects as well as with drive by visits. </p>
<p>My only objection is that my dept. head has no clue what the dept. teaches. He is head of the electives (art, music, tech., engineering) but he knows nothing about 3/4 of the fields or how those classrooms run. Although this is an individualized case, I’m sure there are other administrators that are also not meeting expectations.</p>
<p>I agree with you it is a daunting task. I am not against a merit based system but I really understand why teachers would be concerned. Until someone clearly articulates what the system would be and not just in soundbites they have every right to be leery.</p>
<p>Another idea is to improve preparation of Admininstrators: get teaching degrees and training, then teach, and if successful, get management training a la B-school, in order to become an Administrator.
They also should be paid according to their “results”. Then there would be fewer who do more, and a better job that that.</p>
<p>With so many school systems struggling in this economy to adequately fund salaries (furloughs/RIFS, etc) how could they possibly find the funding for merit pay?</p>
<p>In the real world
with finds so tight
both caveats were stated</p>
<p>ideas could be applied in private schools first, but not there now…</p>
<p>Merit comp is not infinite, as schools are not for profit BUT the pay can be sliced differently.</p>
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<p>Probably not. Teachers, for the most part, like someone to be in charge. </p>
<p>Anyway, the last few posts have been very insightful and thought provoking. Really. I mean, it is a profession based on goal setting for students and articulating expectations and, yet, we don’t offer that to the teachers! I mean, we get a written evaluation with an assessment but, where I am, there is no rubric. I have never had any areas written to improve on (guess that means I’m perfect! :)) so I don’t know how that is handled (i hope i didn’t just jinx myself).</p>
<p>I am not really opposed to merit pay but i have concerns for how that would be handled. In my content area, their is no concrete assessment to measure. It is purely qualitative. How would I get merit and how do you prevent intentional lowered ratings to save the school money? I also worry about teachers teaching hard to the test and putting excess pressure on the students in order to guarantee that they get their merit pay.</p>
<p>With so many school systems struggling in this economy to adequately fund salaries (furloughs/RIFS, etc) how could they possibly find the funding for merit pay?</p>
<p>The Broad & Gates foundations are already doing this.</p>