Do Teachers work for the Parents?

timeless00 · May 12, 2011, 11:30pm

I dont think most parents spend all their time trying to game the system in their childrens favor. As in Bays case, most parents intercede only when they are faced with a situation that promises only to spiral from bad to worse.

Case in point, I once had my child moved to a different teacher/classroom. The problem was strictly personality. My child and the teacher had personalities that clashed and they were driving each other crazy. My straight A student was beginning to act out and was defiant with the teacher. The teacher was one I liked and had worked with professionally. I talked to her first and without blame and we agreed on the solution. The other teacher went above and beyond the call of duty accepting a potentially disruptive student into her already full classroom. It turned out to be the best solution for everyone. The new teacher was so thankful to have my child - he was her best student, productive, involved and respectful. If I had left him with the first teacher it would have been a devastating year for everyone.

Advocating for my child and requesting a special arrangement was an example of how the system works well when we all, parent and teacher, listen to each other and work together to find creative solutions to teaching. Learning should always be an active partnership between student, parent and teacher.

I think most parents carefully choose the times they need to advocate for their kids. Many good teachers know this and are very happy to have an involved parent. After all, a good teacher wants the best possible outcome for her students just as much as the parent does.

emeraldkity4 · May 12, 2011, 11:56pm

My daughters school didn’t allow teachers to be requested.
I expect depending on the principal and on the school community this would be different elsewhere.
This was despite my child having an IEP, despite making no progress according to testing for several years on the IEP& despite me being the PTA chair and in the building every day to run errands for teachers and tutor other kids.

My kid is painfully and slowly catching up on what she missed, but this was caused by having one teacher who was brand new and didnt have much guidance compounded by a teacher who was on sick leave for the bulk of the year & her position was filled by substitutes. She refused to take a leave of absence so that a perm sub could have been hired& other teachers aided & abetted her by donating their own sick leave.
This pattern went on for several years. In most other jobs she would have been laid off.
Actually I had a similar experience. I was on pregnancy bedrest & then had a miscarriage. I was gone from my job for one month- but they had to hire someone else to fill my place & I didn’t even have a classroom of 30 kids waiting for me!

TardisBlue · May 12, 2011, 11:58pm

Hey I’m a long time browser, 1st time poster here! I am a student, not a parent or a teacher, but I thought I could give a somewhat relevant opinion. I go to private school- which could, I guess, blur the lines on the Whose the Boss? issue, but the problem that I see is when people who should be supervising the teachers and advocating for the students don’t.
As an example a friend of mine got a really awful grade on a paper from a teacher, it was like an F. She did admit that she probably deserved a C but she couldn’t figure out where she lost all the points (this teacher didn’t believe in grading rubrics). So she did the logical thing and went to the head of the department (who was another teacher), and just asked “hey can you look over this I’m trying to figure out how I got this grade”. The student had, FYI, talked to the grader previously, but was brushed off. The long and short of it was the chair said, “This paper was definitely not an F paper, but I don’t feel like talking to the teacher about it, so good luck!”
I know that was super long winded, but to me it just feels like the major problem where I am is that when you are using the avenues made available to you, you are seen like a problem and not someone to work with.

Bay · May 13, 2011, 12:04am

Sorry, but this is messed-up thinking to me. First of all, when did I say it was “fine” for another child to get the “short end of the stick.” I think it is HORRIBLE for any child to get a bad teacher, which is what I presume you mean by the short end.

Secondly, as timeless pointed out, teachers are not necessarily “one size fits all” for all students. You are proposing that I keep my mouth shut when my kid is suffering with an ineffective teacher, on the basis that if I move him, some other kid will have to suffer in his place. If all kids are suffering with that teacher, then it is best if the fewest possible students are stuck with him, and the teacher should be FIRED. I would gladly push all the buttons necessary to make that happen, if there were any to push.

Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do other than report my dissatisfaction to the principal, which I have done, in hopes that he pursues the “freeze out” of this teacher, which is his only recourse, since teacher union contracts do not allow him to fire teachers.

timeless00 · May 13, 2011, 12:10am

Emerald, my kids school doesnt allow parents to request teachers either. In my experience, schools will do a lot of things they say they wont when the situation warrants it.

Tardis - good point (“but to me it just feels like the major problem where I am is that when you are using the avenues made available to you, you are seen like a problem and not someone to work with.”)

(sorry I dont know how to quote a previous Post and I cant find it in help)

TheGFG · May 13, 2011, 12:13am

Being a good parent to our own kids is hard enough for most people. So now we’re supposed to advocate for ALL the children in our community or we’re takers? And how would we even do that properly, without personally knowing each of them?

Nonetheless, I have tried just that quite a few times. I expressed concern about problems in the school or classroom which did not negatively impact my own child but which negatively impacted others. More than half the time I was reprimanded for getting involved in things which didn’t “directly affect” my own child. One example was a teacher who gave “awards” to students based on factors such as liking their parents, having the same breed of dog for a pet, and being smarter than her siblings. But since my child didn’t get such an award…

Look, I can’t solve the social problems of the whole world. So merely because other parents are too poor/busy/passive/non-English-speaking/lazy/disfunctional/ ignorant/whatever to advocate for their children, I’m not supposed to do it for mine? Hogwash! And how do you know my child herself isn’t one of the vulnerable kids who really needs advocacy? The logic seems to be that if I am able and willing to advocate, then by definition my child “needs” advocacy less than some other poor child. I don’t buy that, and one reason is that my youngest has special needs. The odds are already stacked against her, and a truly bad classroom situation could derail her for years.

I will admit that I have begun to feel a bit more entitled as a parent, and here’s why. The schools have deteriorated in the last ten years such that I have needed to spend more and more hours a day teaching and re-teaching material, finding resources for my child to use since textbooks seem to be passe in our district, correcting teacher mistakes, deciphering poorly-designed or inaccurate worksheets the teacher downloaded from some internet site, and generally compensating for the appalling lack of literacy and general knowledge of my D’s teachers.

Secondly, I feel a bit entitled because I believe I’ve been a successful educational support to my children, and without the benefit of a teaching degree. Partly due to my efforts, my older children have brought a good bit of positive press to the school because of their achievements, and precious little of their success was due to anything the school had done for them. So I guess what I’m saying is that I work hard every day to educate my children and deserve to be viewed as a diligent partner, not a parasitic pest.

Deborah_T · May 13, 2011, 12:14am

timeless, here you go.

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The words you’re quoting go between quote and /quote, which each have brackets around them.

timeless00 · May 13, 2011, 12:16am

thank you Deb, LOL

poetgrl · May 13, 2011, 12:20am

I’m have a difficult time believing that the argument being presented here is that parents are the problem in the educational system because they are so selfish that they want their children taught by the best possible teacher, and that the education system is not doing well because the other students who do not have “squeaky wheel” parents are being stuck with the bad teachers. What!!!

What are the bad teachers doing there to begin with and why aren’t the teachers as outraged by this as the parents are?

performersmom · May 13, 2011, 1:10am

I have wondered this many, many times, poetgirl.

There are so many ways to “notice” that a teacher is not doing a good job, or in the wrong job.
Obviously, each school has its own system (or not any at all, in some cases) for evaluating and firing teachers.

Certainly there are cases where there are varied experiences with certain teachers, any one size does not fit all students.

But, honestly, is it unreasonable to wonder why the very obviously ineffective teachers do not get fired??

The OP is a teacher, but she dared to bring up this subject, so I respect that.
But teaching is a job, not a right. Nor a permanent role.
Being a parent is a more permanent position. Some people should not become parents in the first place. And bad parenting hurts the kids. But bad parents do not get fired, do they?

To me, the point of education is the KIDS.
Teachers want parents to put up and shut up, or more nicely put, keep quiet and trust them.
While they cannot get a parent “fired”, if they think a parent is doing a bad job with one of the students in their class, likewise, they should focus on the child, and leave out their labeling of parents, as they ask parent to do for them. {Golden Rule}

Teaching IS a results-oriented job!!! Even if the measurement of the results can be subtle and somewhat subjective.

I think, as a parent, I know my child. I would hope that a teacher would welcome my perceptions and information about one of their students, including what is happening at home with their work and how much they seem to be learning. I see their opinions of my child in many ways, and welcome any thoughts they have that would benefit my child as a student academically, ethically or socially. And since we are both adults, and we share a common goal- helping my child be a productive member of society, we should be able to also handle disagreements with mutual respect and maturity.

In one of our family’s schools, the teachers were very very well-taken of, with many excellent perks. The lines of communications about “issues” were laid out clearly: first, reach out and discuss with the teacher. If that proved ineffective, then discuss with Head of school. The problem was that the Head did not observe the teaching ever, at all, never checked in on the classrooms, etc… So it was difficult to get much traction. The Head did what he wished, appearing to listen, But it was all about his own desires and the exercise of power, so things did not get corrected very often.
Also, one of his techniques was to make you feel like an entitled taker if you were worrying about your child, but also to forbid generalizations about all the kids (who are you to know about anyone but your own child??), and tgo act as if the issues you described were the first he had heard of them {patently untrue}- totally no win.
i was surprised because the Head was a parent and had taught for many years, so i expected that there would be lots of observations and coaching,., Instead, the hands-off approach was another perk for “his” faculty…Sigh!
I also came to feel less and less confidence in the Head’s ability to HIRE good teachers…
And there were lots of issues with the curriculum, but that was NOT considered any of the parents’ business.

Point of story is that any system of feedback needs good people with the right motives to make it work for the kids.

camathmom · May 13, 2011, 1:46am

I don’t know CC parents… The amount of anger and rage directed at teachers and public schools here really just floors me. I know that I may see things differently because I am a teacher and a parent of high-achieving CC students, but still… If I were that unhappy with my children’s school and their teachers, I would either find them another school or I would homeschool them.

If all the parents here did that, the public schools would have to change, wouldn’t they?

EPTR · May 13, 2011, 7:17am

I don’t have time for a long post right now because I am off to my oldest D’s college graduation. Yeah! I just want to say that I am thinking about the last page of posts in response to mine last night and giving those insights serious consideration. I won’t have much time today or tomorrow to respond but I hope the discussion continues because it is an important one. It is also important that we listen carefully to both sides and open ourselves to the possibility that it is a complex problem. I’m truly interested in finding some solutions, ideas, etc, even if they are small ones that might improve things. Keep talking!

Hunt · May 13, 2011, 8:47am

As a parent, I guess I do feel rage when I think somebody isn’t treating my child as I think they should. I certainly feel annoyance when my kid gets the inferior teacher. As I said above, though, I don’t think it pays to do anything about it unless it’s bad enough to try to get your kid switched out of the class.

To try to do more than that–to try to get the teacher fired–would require both a tremendous level of provable badness and the willingness to carry on a crusade. But the school knows which teachers aren’t good. The principal knows. The other teachers know. Everybody knows.

Bay · May 13, 2011, 8:58am

I am not unhappy with my children’s public schools overall. I just become disgusted when I encounter a bad teacher who cannot be fired unless s/he commits a crime. Talk about putting a teacher’s needs before a child’s education. And you accuse parents of being selfish.

frazzled1 · May 13, 2011, 9:00am

I don’t think it’s up to teachers to fix the school system, any more than it’s up to doctors to fix the health care system. Teachers, and doctors, are the most visible components of their respective systems and are on the receiving end of most of the general frustration people feel when any large, entrenched institution is unresponsive to their personal needs. It is up to all of us to fix the school system. The blame game has been going on forever and is sadly evident here.

Hunt · May 13, 2011, 9:06am

Well, this is kind of like when somebody says, “So you didn’t like what I said–I must be an evil, horrible person.” You have to patiently explain that you’re not saying he’s an evil person, but that you didn’t like that particular thing, etc., etc. Just because a problem doesn’t call for the nuclear option doesn’t mean that it’s not a problem.

TheGFG · May 13, 2011, 9:32am

^ The “if you don’t like it, get out” argument is a very poor one because citizens are forced to pay for the public school system. We can’t simply opt out, and many of us lack the resources to pay additional money for private school or homeschooling. Why do people think homeschooling is free? The parents I know who do it spend a lot of money on books, supplies, curricula, outside classes when they can’t teach a subject, pool memberships and the like to cover the phys. ed. requirement, homeschool co-op fees, etc.

In addition, now the taxpayers have to fork over money to whatever special interest group decides to found a charter school, regardless of whether our own children could ever realistically attend it. Our tax bill is going up this year to fund a Chinese language school, for example. How many non-Chinese kids do you think are going to attend? I have never been in favor of school vouchers, but I’m fast changing my mind.

poetgrl · May 13, 2011, 10:39am

Well, the problem with this is that parents aren’t actually allowed to have any input, so I have no idea how they can 'fix the system."

As I said upthread, I believe it is, ultimately, an administrative issue, and I also believe that as unions begin to lose power, the administrators will be able to at least get rid of the most egregiously horrible teachers, which will be good for the kids, which is, honestly, the only thing that matters.

As for c-mom, a public school teacher who chose to send her child to a private school? That is a lot like the politicians who sent their kids to private schools, which they all do, and with good reason. It is a simple admission, through her actions, that the system in which she works might be good enough for other kids, but not her own. What more information do we need?

I can afford to send my kids to private schools. I care about the public school system, because I don’t believe the kids whose parents cannot afford this ought to be subjected to an inferior education.

The system was developed when America needed a lot of workers to enter the blue collar, manufacturing jobs. The system is antiquated, but it seems to be working the same way it has for a century. It was effective for what we needed at one time. Now, we are asking for a better education for our (collectively speaking) kids because we realize they all need to get to college, if possible, capable of doing that work.

So, what needs to change to make this happen?

frazzled1 · May 13, 2011, 10:52am

Its fine to dislike charter schools, but should they not be funded because individual taxpayers wouldnt enroll their children in a specific one? Some people may dislike charter schools with an arts focus, or a science and math focus. What about the successful charter schools are they not worth funding? Realistically, each child can only attend one school. People who have no children pay school taxes should they be able to opt out because they receive no immediate, personal benefit from the school system?

It costs each school system more per student each year to educate each child than any except the very wealthiest parents pay in school taxes. The vast majority of parents receive more from their public schools than theyre putting in.

poetgrl · May 13, 2011, 11:02am

This is probably not a very good thing to say. There are many who question why we are paying so much to educate our children, and particularly, why we continue to pay poorly performing teachers and administrators the amount we do. If you want to quantify what parents recieve, you’d actually have to take into account the vast number of underperforming schools in this country. Probably no amount of recieving that kind of education is “more than the parent put in.”

So, I wouldn’t try to quantify this way, personally.

Do Teachers work for the Parents?

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