I can’t give individual teachers I don’t like the heave-ho, but the parents in my school system can, and do, have input in many ways. The members of our Board of Ed are parents (and saints, imho). We have committees and even site-based advisory teams for each school, in which parents work cooperatively with teachers and administrators. I had email communication with my kids’ teachers, and could have scheduled in-person meetings when needed.</p>
<p>I don’t live in Paradise. My kids had poor teachers occasionally, and I was brushed off by the hs principal once when I had what I considered to be a legitimate complaint about a teacher. But all of the poor teachers were new ones whose contracts weren’t renewed at the end of the year, and the worst was terminated after two months. And I don’t expect the hs principal to make my complaint his most pressing business of the day - I followed up with a detailed letter of complaint to the superintendent, and felt satisfied that I had indeed had input on the situation.
Is it okay if I do? The annual cost per student in our district was about $8,500 per pupil, last time I checked. Our school taxes are between $4K-5K each year. I sent three kids through that school system - three kids who did or are doing well at highly selective colleges. I’m a satisfied customer - personally. </p>
<p>Everyone’s coming from somewhere - we’re obviously not coming from the same place.</p>
<p>The regular public schools do a fine job of catering to the general population as best they can. A child of any ethnic background can attend–even if his English is poor–and he will be taught. A child with any intellectual level can attend, and he will be taught or sent to a special education educational facility at public expense. Most public high schools provide differentiated education in the form of advanced classes too. Also in the public school, a student has access to activities that span a wide array of interests, including art, music, athletics, career-related clubs, hobby-related clubs, etc. You get the point. There is NO way a school that provides education in the Chinese language (which is not our national language) has, or should have, a similar claim to public financing.</p>
<p>*Is it okay if I do? The annual cost per student in our district was about $8,500 per pupil, last time I checked. Our school taxes are between $4K-5K each year. I sent three kids through that school system - three kids who did or are doing well at highly selective colleges. I’m a satisfied customer - personally. *</p>
<p>The amount received for students in our district from the federal, state & local govt is about double of the above- but whose to say we are all getting our moneys worth? ( not to mention with a top heavy administration not much makes it to the buildings let alone the classroom)
The graduation rate in many schools is poor.</p>
<p>Many, many students have to take remedial courses in college, even those who graduated with honors as my own did- how much is * that* costing?</p>
<p>Students who never even begin 9th grade are not counted in drop out rates & it is fair to assume that their parents don’t see many choices for educating their children.</p>
<p>Our district is hot to trot for TFA candidates- hell ya, I want someone with 5 weeks of training, especially if the school district will have to pay TFA $4000 per year for the privilege of hiring them.
:rolleyes:
How many calculators & textbooks could that buy?</p>
<p>But the reason that I chose to send them to private school had nothing to do with the teachers. My kids had some great teachers at both, good teachers at both and so-so teachers at both public and private.</p>
<p>But, the private school did have small class size through high school and a very very small caseload for individual teachers which results in extensive individual attention for each student. And lots of art, music, drama, languages, all the extras that an education junkie like me wants. Plus, the school acts as a community, which is happening less and less at public school in California as they are being torn apart by funding deficits.</p>
<p>But, in California. unless you are lucky enough to live in one of those very, very wealthy and well-funded school districts (of which there are very few) all of this has been cut back drastically over the past 10 years in public schools. No art, class sizes growing almost exponentially, teacher caseloads increasing every year, etc… I completely understand the frustration of parents, but the problem with public schools is our funding priorities NOT the teachers and NOT the teachers unions.</p>
<p>You know since we’ve gone off on a funding tangent here, one thing that does not get brought up a lot is the cost of special education services in public schools. At my school it grows dramatically every year. One student in our school receives more than $200,000in additional supportive services annually. The number of families requesting additional services for autistic kids grows every year. And, by law, these students are entitled to receive special expensive services.</p>
<p>The number of families requesting additional services for autistic kids grows every year. And, by law, these students are entitled to receive special expensive services.</p>
<p>In our district , the district attorney told a school board member in her response to the complaints she was getting from parents that their kids with IEPs were not being served, that it was cheaper to pay legal costs for the very few families who took their case to court, than to follow federal law.</p>
<p>The teachers unions are not whole problem, but they sure haven’t helped. Think about it: The teaching of the young is an activity that has a social value about as high as any profession can get. Its value to society ranks right up there with healing the sick. But that being the case, why are teachers not among the most respected professions? The answer is they used to be. But much of that respect has been squandered over the years in significant part through the tireless efforts of teacher’s unions to protect the rights and jobs of ALL teachers no matter how lousy they may be at their jobs.</p>
<p>The unions should focus a lot of effort on weeding out the bad apples instead of protecting them. It’s those few losers that diminish the reputation of the whole profession. But in many districts getting rid of them is almost impossible. The unions have bargained for endless evaluations, hearings, process, bureaucratic delay, and second chances. And I’m not some union-hater. But I do think that many teacher’s unions have for too long had the wrong focus.</p>
<p>If teachers could get back to their formerly high public level of public esteem (and I think they can), the funding will surely follow. Right now many people do not believe they are getting their money’s worth. Thus, they have little or no objection when the budget cutters bring out the knives.</p>
<p>According to this article, teachers work for a large number parties with conflicting interests. Although parents and students are among those parties, they seem to be rather far down on the priority list.</p>
Wait a minute - isn’t that funding in Seattle being provided by Washington STEM, an independent non-profit agency, and not by the school district? [Washington</a> STEM](<a href=“http://www.washingtonstem.org/]Washington”>http://www.washingtonstem.org/) Not to derail this thread, but I think it’s important to address questions about how TFA teachers are funded as they arise - because they always arise. In my d’s large school district in the Metro DC area, TFA receives no funding from the district to pay, place, or train its corps members. I’m unaware of any districts that do pay TFA for these services.</p>
<p>a minute - isn’t that funding in Seattle being provided by Washington STEM, an independent non-profit agency, and not by the school district?</p>
<p>only for the TFA candidates that are math/science teachers, so far only 10 science/math recruits have indicated they are interested in the Puget Sound area,- & it remains to be seen if( the funding) that will be for more than one year.( or if they will even be hired by Seattle- given that we don’t have a teacher shortage- however the district has been firing principals who receive unanimous support from their staff, in an effort to place a principal who is more TFA friendly)</p>
<p>coureur,
i like your post about the Teacher’s Unions. A job should not be a “right”. Especially one that confers such a huge societal need to a relatively unempowered group.</p>
<p>A constructive suggestion:
convert the teachers’ unions away from being rights protectors to something more like Teacher GUILDS.
Membership levels and participation would be earned and would offer many benefits such as further training, exposure to research studies, sharing what works and does not, etc. Apprenticeship and interning would be encouraged. Teachers would pay for this with their own dollars.</p>
<p>Where is the evidence that eliminating teachers unions will improve student performance? If look at the states with and without teachers unions:</p>
<p>I don’t favor eliminating teachers unions. I just favor teachers unions redirecting their focus to attracting talent to the profession and furthering the careers of good teachers instead of fighting so hard to protect the bad.</p>
<p>Getting rid of a bad teacher shouldn’t be any harder than getting rid of a bad employee at a private company. I’ve had to fire people before (thankfully only a few). Except in cases of serious misconduct requiring immediate action, poor performers are told what their problem is and put on a program to improve. If they don’t show improvement within a defined time they are gone. Their rights are protected but we don’t waste a lot of time, effort, and money carrying poor performers who are unable or unwilling effectively to do their jobs. Why does it need to be any different with teachers?</p>
<p>I agree completely with courer, and find this is exactly the right idea.</p>
<p>The tenacious focus on keeping bad teachers in place is not the right focus, imho, if the point is a better education. This is actually my only objection to teacher’s unions, but it is such a strong objection that I am no longer willing to support teachers unions until this changes.</p>
<p>Wendy Koop from Teach for America says the turnover rate for teachers is virtual the same in tenure and non-tenure schools. It is also nearly the same in schools with unions and those without unions.
She believes that tenure and unions are not the real problem with education.</p>
<p>Yes, at least in California, a bad teacher CAN be fired under a union contract. It just requires that the administrator do as coureur suggested is done for the private sector.</p>
<p>I live in Florida where there have been numerous changes in retirement and tenure for new incoming teachers. I laugh when the politicians also claim to want to get the best and the brightest. Who attracts the best and the brightest by offering as little as possible?</p>
<p>As for unions, I belong to a teacher union, but I don’t think it helps much. Our union is very weak. Maybe unions elsewhere have more power, but our union doesn’t protect teachers like the papers want to portray teacher unions. This entire last year all of our high school teachers have been working with schedules that violate our contract and we will continue this schedule this next year. I guess I just don’t know what a powerful union really is.</p>