<p>dke: You make perfect sense to me. I’m not an only (I come from a big family), but my s-i-l is an only & I saw how hard it must be when you are an only dealing with death or illness of a parent. She has a few cousins and some aunts/uncles (but not many) and they all live far away.
Seeing her manage her grief and all the ramifications…mom needing to move and re-locate after the death, made me very happy that I have alot of brothers/sisters to lean on when times are hard.</p>
<p>I’m an only child (and grandchild) on one side, and I have 5 brothers and a sister (various combinations of ‘half’ and ‘step’ in there) on the other. Different experiences, for sure, but not in quality. Small families can rock. Big families can rock. To bring in a college analogy (this is CC after all), some profs are great with large lecture classes, some are great in seminars, some excel at independent studies. My guess is the same is true for parents, and that parents (in whatever configuration that takes) should decide what kind of family they (or he, or she) are best for and go for it.</p>
<p>I have to say that one thing that drives me crazy is when kids aren’t spoiled so much with material things as the DOTING that parents do. My daughter has a friend whose parents dote on her, and when she comes to my house she expects me to do it, too! I absolutely refuse to and don’t with my own at all. No one in life will dote on them so they’d better get used to learning independence, etc. This child can’t even open her own car door and she’s 10! (and can’t cut a waffle…drives me nuts…vent vent vent)</p>
<p>There was a well publicized book on the influence of birth order on personality a few years back that came to some interesting conclusions. Later, other social scientists looking at the same data argued that the methodology of the book was flawed as it failed to take into account the differing demographic characteristics of parents who have few children and parents who have many. I’m not implying anything about anyone individually, of course, but statistically speaking, there’s an inverse relationship between the length of time spent in school, and the number of children someone has. The book’s conclusions about middle children were skewed by fact that to be a middle child, your parents have to have had at least three children. </p>
<p>My oldest sister was very impressed by the book’s conclusions, but we middle children tend to take these things with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>As an only, I have no clue about all this doting stuff - I was ALWAYS encouraged to ‘do it myself’, and I was very excited to be independent. I did get a TON of attention - no bad grades or skimping on projects allowed - and I was held to an adult standard once I grew older. I’ve worked for the past 3 years and I have learned a lot about money, etc…I think it’s a great experience for kids, even when money is not an issue.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, I have a close friend who does not even buy clothes without consulting her parents, they bought her car, she doesn’t work, they pay all her bills (she doesn’t know how to use an ATM!), buy her whatever, whenever…at times I can get very jealous but on the whole I feel thankful that I will be able to take care of myself when it comes time to be on my own!</p>
<p>We made a concious decision to have only two children…they are responsible, social, fun, independent, resourceful, not spoiled</p>
<p>Because we chose to have a small family, we have been able to give them alot…alot in terms of our time, our availibility, ourselves, we raised them…</p>
<p>We also have been able to travel, something I had growing up and feel is very important in creating well rounded visionary people</p>
<p>We have been to Italy, France, Ireland, England, Mexico, Hawaii, and many more places in the United States</p>
<p>We also have made an efffort to leave a small footprint on our world…we drive small cars, we recycle, we are careful with water usage, we go green as much as possible, we think about future generations</p>
<p>We also think about the financial resources we use, we take care of our own, and we take care of others, we will not be getting financial aid (being middle class owning a house), but that’s okay, we will be able to leave that money for others to use, we use less gas, we leave less garbage, we will use less national resources- social security, medical care, classroom space, wear and tear on the roads, the buses, the schools, we use less paper, less food, less wood…</p>
<p>We have lots of support from friends, neighbors, other families, a community we have created, our extended family</p>
<p>And benefits we may have gained from having a large family, we have gained from our larger world- school, church, work, neighbors, friends, volunteering, classes, etc.</p>
<p>When we are old, well, my Ds will do their best, as I have done with my mom</p>
<p>I have seen large families where family members haven’t spoken to each other for years, so not everything is peachy keen there</p>
<p>It is not fair to think small family kids are all spoiled, lazy, or socially inept</p>
<p>CGM - sounds like a great family. Too bad you have to play a zero-sum-game of one way being the right way and all other ways can hang themselves… Without that, it would be a great testimony to one way a family can be awesome…</p>
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<p>Knew a family once who named their kids Apollo and Calliope. I would NOT recommend this.</p>
<p>I didn’t bring this topic up, if you read the OP, you will see the judgements made about people with small families, so I explained mine after much slamming away at me saying how big families are necessary in order to have great kids</p>
<p>If found that just silly, and I think that we as inhabitants of this planet need to think in a larger sense, not jsut what “we” want</p>
<p>If one thinks that you can only have kids who are as decribed by the large family proponents, that having large families is the only way to raise independent, selfless, social kids, well, you need to rethink that</p>
<p>I still beleive strongly that we need to leave more for our children, and their children, and think about the resources we are using up…it isn’t an endless supply, and leaving a clean world with freshair, land, trees, oil, water, animals, icebergs, etc, is our responsibility</p>
<p>If thinking that small families is a better way, well, that is what I believe even if it bothers people</p>
<p>I don’t think one needs to populate the planet, use up resources, etc is the best way in order to raise great kids, I think kids can be great so long as they have great parents…if a parent thinks they need to have a big family to have balanced, fair, giving, etc, children, what does that say about the parenting skills can they not think of other ways</p>
<p>What if a person can only have 1 child, can they not raise the same kind of giving, social, independent person? Or can those attributes only come from a large family? Does that even make sense? That parents can’t give to their kids all the skills they want, but need the large family atmosphere in order to do that? </p>
<p>And, with so many kids who need homes, why not open the doors to kids in foster homes if one truely wants a large family</p>
<p>That would be a wonderful gift, or adopt a child from across the world to create that large family</p>
<p>Another aspect that I have noticed is that with “small family syndrome” grandchildren are often more “spoiled” because grandparents have fewer grandkids to buy for. </p>
<p>For example… my parents have 22 grandkids, therefore, they have give very modest Christmas and Birthday gifts of money. My sis’ in-laws only have a few grandkids so her kids get BIG checks for Christmas and Birthdays – even though both sets of grandparents have about the same amount of money.</p>
<p>Believe me, I am not complaining about any of this (either way); it’s just an observance.</p>
<p>Also for mythology: I still don’t understand how anyone in marketing allowed the Buick Electra to happen… Maybe as a counterpoint to the Chevy Oedipus?</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread, and I think that people can and do create all kinds of families that work well for them. </p>
<p>CGM: I agree with DukeEgr that your family sounds terrific. I also agree with you that “it is not fair to think small family kids are all spoiled, lazy, or socially inept.” I’m always amused by the “only child” stereotype. In fact, I’ve noticed that every time I meet a young person or an older adult that I like, that I find interesting, and enjoy being around–almost every single time, without fail, it turns out that the person is an only child. In fact, I think most only children are very independent, responsible, mature, and–in fact–are excellent at making and keeping friends, because they’ve had to be. From early on, they’ve never had “built-in” friends with their siblings. So the ones I’ve met are outgoing and really personable people. And they never suffer from the old, “Mom liked you best” syndrome. So that’s my little plug for all the truly delightful “only” children I’ve met out there over the years!</p>
<p>I don’t think one needs to populate the planet, use up resources, etc is the best way in order to raise great kids, I think kids can be great so long as they have great parents."</p>
<p>I don’t think current demographic trends support this concern.</p>
<p>I think I’m the middle ground. I have three much-loved, deeply-wanted children who have been volunteering and giving back all of their lives. Of thereat luxuries that they have (I-Pods, cell phones), they have earned the money to pay for them. I don’t think family size matters one bit. The work can not have enough committed, hardworking, caring citizens.</p>
<p>CGM - I definitely agree that the OP was unfair to coin a term “small family syndrome” trying to blame rampant consumerism and selfishness on small families. Certainly, the same logic and feeling and lessons you have used in building and forming and teaching your family fly directly in the face of the attributes assigned by the first post to small families. I guess I just feel that the first shot - about what happens when two people have eight people - was a similarly broad and unflattering protrayal of what can also be a meaningful, conscientous, and well reasoned family choice.</p>
<p>I want to make sure EVERYONE knows that I am NOT judging the size of ANYONE’s family – small, medium or large!!! I have NO problem with those who have big families (I admire you & your organizational skills!!) and I have no problem with those who for whatever reasons make a different choice! I only have 2 kids BUT because I am aware of SFS, I have tried to avoid the negative consequences of SFF (as some of you have, too). One thing I did was always have my kids around cousins (when we lived in CA) so they would have a “big family” feel and get used to sharing and not being first.</p>
<p>There is no reason for ANYONE to feel defensive about their choice of family size. No one should be judging anyone in regards to that – family size is such a big personal decision.</p>
<p>What first got me “noticing” Small Family Syndrome was when I got my first job. Every month, we would celebrate whoever’s birthday was that month with a cake. I was “in charge” of cutting the cake because everyone said that I knew how to cut enuf pieces (learned from mom in a family of 9) It surprised me when I would be passing cake out that there would always be some who would ask for seconds before everyone was served (there wasn’t enuf for seconds!!). </p>
<p>As mentioned in an earlier thread, I later noticed a similar phenomenon when I was a teacher and kids would bring in cupcakes, and some kids would BEG for “seconds” even tho there obviously wasn’t enuf for everyone to have seconds. It amazed me how brazen these kids were – they seemed to think that they were “special” and somehow “deserved” to get more than the others in the classroom. That’s when I started teaching about HUMILITY and not putting oneself first (or calling “firsties”!!!)!!!.</p>
<p>It was these times that I began to realize that people from small families are not used to making sure there is enuf for everyone – since in a small family that is not usually an issue – there is usually enuf for seconds and even thirds when a birthday cake (or similar sweet) is served. However, in larger families, kids grow up hearing such things as, “See how many people there are and make sure you don’t take more than your share.” (in some large families that I knew, the girls were served first to make sure the boys didn’t take the girls’ share, too!)</p>
<p>Another thought - Being one of 7 kids (oldest girl) I remember always hearing my mom say, “If I have to buy one for you, I’ll have to buy 6 more.” Hearing that enuf times, made all of us really aware of what are “extras” and what are necessities. I just don’t think kids in small families hear that enuf today. Parents just frequently say “yes” to requests.</p>
<p>America is a land of individualism, which has its positives and negatives. On the one hand, people can do whatever they choose, as long as they adhere to the law. </p>
<p>On the other, because people do what they choose, as opposed to thinking about the broader good of the citizenship, the good of the whole, versus the individual parts, some people act as if the greater good doesn’t really matter.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t dream of buying or driving a big gas hog, like an Expedition or Suburban, because we have issues with oil consumption in this country. Likewise, I take public transportation whenever possible, recycle, etc. due to environmental concerns.</p>
<p>Many people would say it is their right to drive a Suburban 50 miles a day to work, and indeed it is. There’s no law against it. But is it right, in the scheme of the bigger picture? Not in my eyes.</p>
<p>Similarly, some people do not believe that there is a problem with overpopulation, and can choose to have as many children as they like. However, the bigger families, like the bigger cars, do tax our world.</p>
<p>It is still an individual decision, but I know exactly what CGm is saying, and no surprise, I agree with her.</p>
<p>You said that very nicely, Allmusic. I also agree.</p>
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<p>You have 8 kids you have 8 bday parties a year <<<</p>
<p>I think that illustrates the misconception… I don’t think that those who have 8 kids give 8 birthday parties a year. As someone who came from a family of 7 kids, we weren’t given birthday parties for most of our birthdays – and I know other kids from large families didn’t either. Usually, such a kid only got 1 - 3 birthday parties through out his childhood (perhaps one as a baby, one in grade school and one/or one in middle or high school). AND, large family birthday parties were not the expensive shindigs of today!</p>
<p>Frankly, I wouldn’t necessarily say that those who have larger families are really consuming a whole lot more than those with smaller families (A family of 8 is NOT consuming twice what a family of 4 is consuming!). Smaller families tend to buy/spend (in total) as much on “things”, cars for teens, etc as larger families, do. Case in point, a smaller family may buy a car for each driving teen - for a total of 4 cars in the family. A larger family may just be able to afford 2 or 3 cars, one each for parents and one for teens to share. Smaller families are more likely to purchase “fast food” and other convenience items (with all the extra packaging) than larger families (a costco sized bag of spahetti has minimal packaging).</p>
<p>Many small families live in big homes that require as much to heat and light as homes with more members. It doesn’t really take more energy to cook a meal for 4 as it does for 8 (know that from years of experience of cooking for 9 and cooking for 4).</p>
<p>My point is that one can’t just assume that larger families are really consuming all that much more. But AGAIN, I have no problem with whatever size a family chooses to have - big or small (all I care is that kids are raised to be good citizens, and all sizes of families can do that!) </p>
<p>I would rather someone raise 12 awesome kids that become tax payers then someone raise 2 irresponsible kids which end becoming tax receivers (in jail, on welfare, etc.) or vice versa!!!</p>
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<p>What a leap (do you all read what is written or do you just make stuff up in order to create a response)!!! I HAVE A SMALL family – if what you wrote is true then I would be blaming MYSELF!!! </p>
<p>I think some people here need to feel “validated” for the choice they personally made. If that is what you need, here it is: “YOU made the right choice for YOUR family”. Feel better now??? Now, can we get back to the subject?</p>
<p>When those large families, when those kids grow up, they will consume more, pure math</p>
<p>When my kids go out into the world, there will be two of them using resources, a car, land, food, gas…when the kids of a large family go out into the world, say 6, there will be six people using resources</p>
<p>See, in my view, I look beyond my little household, look to when my children move on into the world as adults, not just to when they are under my roof</p>
<p>yes, if 4 or 10 people are sitting in a livingroom, it is only one light bulb, but when those 10 people move out, into the world, that is 10 light bulbs</p>
<p>I look to the future, the futre for my kids and for yours, not just to the here and now</p>