<p>Sounds like this child may have some issues but it also sounds like his behavior gets him a lot of negative feedback. This can be a vicious cycle with a child. They come to be what they think others perceive them to be - the “bad” kid. Do his parents or other adults make it a point to note when he is doing something right? </p>
<p>We saw a huge turn around with a child in my D’s class when he got a 4th grade teacher who really believed in the whole “positive feedback” thing. </p>
<p>Sometimes if you can’t be the “best” good kid, you try to be the “best” bad kid so that you can get your share of attention. This was the dynamic with my brother #1 and me. </p>
<p>Whether or not there are more serious psych issues going on, some family counseling might help unstring the spaghetti a bit. Of course, that means the parents would have to take the concerns of others seriously and evaluate their own biases. Sympathies to you, eyemamom for being caught in the middle of this.</p>
<p>@eyemamom–That “narrative” remark is interesting. Because, you’ve given us factually described instances–the TG incident, the pushing the little girl, the peeling his little brother’s fingers off the edge of the pool, choking grandma–either those are real, or they’re not. If they’re real (which I am sure they are) then you are not shaping the narrative unfairly, because I think we are reacting to these facts, not to any bias on your part.</p>
<p>Eyeamom- we all have our perspectives, biases and experiences that inform how we assess things. Looking only at your statements of observed behaviors, this causes me serious concern. Others here with relevant backgrounds and/or boatloads of parental experiences have also weighed in with how worrisome this is. You seem to have your bearings; sadly this isn’t enough to move the family forward. Often it isn’t until there is a crisis observed by professionals with the “authority” to act that assessments and interventions can begin. </p>
<p>Cross posted with garland. Oops.</p>
<p>Sometimes the person in charge does not see the behavior, but also isn’t sneaky enough to catch the bad behavior. </p>
<p>In my DD’s 5th grade class, mean girl behavior was coming out big time. DD would tell me, and I would tell the teacher. Both 5th grade teachers got sneaky in catching these girls being mean. End of year conferences - some of the mean girl parents may have been shocked (or just acted clueless).</p>
<p>When I was in 8th grade, a mean boy (who could have passed for 18 with his size and physical mature features) somehow ‘hated me’ - he sat behind me and would hit my back often, when teacher had back to class. Both he and I complained to teacher about seating, and teacher moved us so he sat in front of me and would then hit my legs. Teacher never caught on. At one of our HS class reunions, I told this teacher - he was absolutely shocked.</p>
<p>I think our entitlement culture has poor child behavior being overly tolerated. Parents aren’t parenting. You use to be able to correct your neighborhood kids bad behavior.</p>
<p>If the parents do not correct the child early, it will be harder later on. What happens when the child physically gets too big to be able to physically restrain? Children get dangerous, esp when they are exposed to many violent things on TV and media.</p>
<p>H had an adopted cousin that had an extremely high IQ (160, 180) but due to his early home env’t and his adoptive parents never getting through despite trying with the resources available (including sending him to college prep military HS). Dishonorable discharge from the military. Wrote bad checks that dad covered for a while. Is now morbidly obese and in a wheelchair - had a nice wife but eventually she could not tolerate him anymore and they got divorced. Did not attend his father’s funeral (but knew because of all the resources spent on him over the years he would not benefit from the will). In many ways he was a sociopath, although thankfully not violent.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose brother has been in prison for murder. He was cut out of the will but threatened siblings - my friend (the executor) was upset because he didn’t have her info and one of the siblings gave it to him. Mom was a highly functioning alcoholic. My friend got married and pregnant to get away from mother when she was 16 and that was her way to cope at the time.</p>
<p>BIL’s girlfriend was an aid for special education middle school for over 20 years (so she has a school pension) - she had been hurt (including broken foot). Just hired on with post office full time and loves it - wishes she had gotten out 20 years ago!</p>
<p>A friend’s daughter works as an aid to special ed 3rd to 5th grades. There are 20 students; one aid helps with the rest of the class and Jessica works one-on-one with one student (she has to have another assist with bathroom and diapering because one cannot handle this student). Evidently the mother of this child has complaints that the school is not doing enough for her child…</p>
<p>And who knows with kids with behavior issues or psych issues - if they choose to use illegal drugs which exasperates their condition. I just saw where a guy with schizophrenia (controlled for a while; was in a college town) who became a drug addict walked into a guy’s house (to rob) - had a knife and two quick jabs and the homeowner was dead. DNA eventually had him caught; he was age 27. When in jail awaiting sentencing, hung himself. I know how quick someone can be that is psychotic (as a psych charge nurse, had a situation - got it resolved w/o anyone hurt beyond stitches, but I would not let police come into the locked unit unless they were not armed). Only EMTs came on unit, and it took 6 people to get the 160 pound young adult strapped down on gurney.</p>
<p>The positive feedback thing did trigger a memory that it was a suggestion given to her by some professional - I think where he was tested. I even gave her things I did with my kids - like instead of yelling - don’t jump on the couch, substitute it with what he should do instead, couches are for sitting. I did share with her how I did work at limiting all the no’s in our house except dangerous urgent situations. It takes longer, but it helps teach them what is appropriate, not just what not to do. But I wasn’t dealing with angry outbursts and harmful behavior from my kids. </p>
<p>I think I’m just reporting the specific things I’ve seen. I agree this kid unchecked could have a tragic future ahead of him. </p>
<p>The dad is not American and was one of many children. This culture of parenting is very foreign to him and he just thinks people get all upset over nothing. I started dating my hubby when she was in hs and I remember witnessing the negotiation that went on with her curfew and where she was going, etc in total fascination. I never saw such a thing.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I think the best advice you could get would be from someone who has actually parented such a child. I think it is hard for us parents who have “go with the flow” children to offer anything that has the benefit of direct experience behind it. I think you have done what you can and it is now up to the parents. I am sure this is very difficult and isolating for them and clearly the child is suffering as well. Hope they feel nothing but genuine support from you and your H.</p>
<p><<<<
mentioned it because I did know two sibs like this, about 4 and 6, when I was a teen. The younger was adorable, perfect- everyone reacted to her as OP does to her younger nephew. The older (not as cute) was a terror. We came to realize there was more to the story than simply the older’s behavior. The older was clearly acting out after being the target of anger, denied the affection and attention the younger got. In little kids, these things can pop out in ways that alarm us. At 7, they don’t have the words, nor the ability to express what’s up. Likewise, the mom saying it’s just mild ADHD could be cover for something else going on at home.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to excuse the kid. But at that age, we don’t know. Only hindsight informs. That’s all.</p>
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<p>Hmmm…I can’t believe that I forgot about a situation that happened about 15 years ago. For about 18 months, we had neighbors (Pam and Carl) with a 5th grade son and a K daughter. So, the kids were about 5 years apart. The boy (Jeff) was a good-sized reasonably attractive boy, and the girl (Maddy) was a tiny adorable angel…and mom loved to dress her up very cute. </p>
<p>When the kids were over one day, I noticed that Jeff was very mean to Maddy. I stopped the behavior. Then it happened again (but worse, physical stuff). I stopped that. Then it happened again. I talked to the mom (Pam), and she excused Jeff’s behavior because, “Well, Carl has a son from a previous marriage, so Jeff is jealous about that.” This son from the previous marriage lived 1500 miles away and Carl RARELY ever saw him! So, that excuse sounded crazy to me. But, now that you’ve mentioned the “adorable younger child” issue, that may have played into this…making Maddy a target. </p>
<p>Of course, when the younger child is a baby, even normal attention to a baby might be a threat to a disturbed older child…but attention that is seen as excessive or “at his expense” when that baby ages, might stir up anger. The mom, Pam, was an attractive, stylish lady who probably was a little fashion-frustrated by her first child…and went shopping crazy once the darling lil girl was born.</p>
<p>For the moment, eyemamom did all she can do. She talked to SIL. I thought SIL was acknowledging the convo and the need to do something. Others saw it differently. But the first step was taken. EMM needs to see what comes next. It may take time; there is no magic overnight fix.</p>
<p>I’ve read all the posts, but we really don’t know what’s up with her nephew, what this really is.</p>
<p>^^
True…the mom is, at least, thinking that there are some problems. She may not want to admit them yet to outsiders because she may want to protect her son from having their social circle know too much. </p>
<p>I’m curious as to how the dad is with this son. I don’t mean his “public face,” but how is he on a day to day basis and how does HE discipline his son.</p>