What if the bus were filled with people who look like the subject of this article?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/10/sergio-romo-wears-i-just-look-illegal-shirt-for-sf-giants-parade.html
And for that matter why should a US citizen not have to show ID? How do I know you are a citizen? Just because you say so? What happens if you only have one ID, but it’s expired?
The exact same reason that I don’t have to show my pockets to the cops to prove I’m not carrying drugs.
The Fourth Amendment says the people have the right “to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches.” Absent urgent safety needs (like boarding a plane), a suspicionless search is unreasonable by definition.
This is an issue to be aware of if our (non-white) kids are traveling within 100 miles of a border with Canada or Mexico. My D is adopted internationally, and at this point (sadly) I may advise her to take her passport with her.
Because the constitution and the Supreme Court says so.
If I’m just walking down the street or sitting on a bus, it’s none of your business.
If you’re in a REAL ID state have a REAL ID driver’s license, that should be fine without needing a passport. It has been a struggle getting my real ID driver’s license. So far, only one person has commented on the star in a gold circle that it has. Currently I have 4 licenses–2 are plastic with a hole punched in it and 2 temporary paper ones while awaiting my plastic permanent one with the star in a gold circle that SHOULD be arriving “soon.”
But if they (US Citizens) are under reasonable suspicion of a crime then they should and DO have to show Id if they’re in certain states. Even in other circumstances how would an officer know they’re a citizen without checking their Id?
Try telling that to an immigration officer if you’re non-white.
Do you consider “reasonable suspicion” to include “just looking illegal” or being within 100 miles of an international border or coastline?
The “100 miles of a border” includes coastlines as “borders”, not just the land borders with Canada or Mexico.
@ucbalumnus I consider it if they fit the description of a suspect or yes if they are within 100 miles of an international border/coastline. But I do not consider it “looking illegal” as that treads into racial profiling.
So everyone within 100 miles of the border (i.e. about 2/3 of the population of the US) is under “reasonable suspicion”?
Why is it the government’s business if you are sitting on a plane but not a bus or a train? Why is it the government’s business if you want to enter a government building? Because while the constitution gives rights, the courts have allowed restrictions, including that someone within 100 miles of a border can be asked. Even citizens.
My nephew has a green card. He has it with him at all times and agreed to show it to any official whenever asked to do so. It took him over 2 years to get it so takes all requirements very seriously. If he’s asked for it before buying a bus ticket, he’ll show it. If he’s asked for it while on the bus, he’ll show it even if he is 600 miles from a border.
@ucbalumnus The regulation around the 100 mile rule is very vague. The first source I saw said anyone within 100 miles can be asked for ID due to the “reasonable suspicion” of “illegal immigration”. I’d like it if the government made it more clear as to what they legally can and cannot do.
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
100 miles of an ocean includes our entire state, so in tgeory we can all be asked repeatedly to produce paperwork proving our right to be in the us. There are quite a few other parts of the US within 100 miles of the ocean or any border with Mexico or Canada.
“This is an issue to be aware of if our (non-white) kids are traveling within 100 miles of a border with Canada or Mexico.”
“The “100 miles of a border” includes coastlines as “borders”, not just the land borders with Canada or Mexico.”
Exactly. Some of us, in addition to Hawaii as already mentioned, live in states that are entirely within the “100 mile border”. Here’s a map courtesy of the good people at the ACLU:
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-governments-100-mile-border-zone-map
"If you’re in a REAL ID state have a REAL ID driver’s license, that should be fine without needing a passport. "
The slope has already slipped but I resent needing to have a Real ID at all when traveling within my own country.
I just checked…as a resident of CT…the whole state is within 100 miles of the shoreline. Guess I need to either upgrade my drivers license, or carry my passport?
Or just stay home.
Just carry a passport card - it is not a big burden
Or smile sweetly, say yes, I’m a citizen, I don’t need to prove it, and go back to your business.
Which you and I can do, being white. So we need to support those who don’t “look” or “sound” like “citizens” to be able to do the same as us. (not knocking on you, because I figure you feel the same way.)
I’m white but recently I don’t want to talk when I go outside, my accent used to be a curiosity discussion but now I’m worried.
Right. ICE agents really don’t want to arrest a bunch of upper-middle-class white women. So it’s on us to use that unearned safety to make sure the government stays within its bounds. If brown people try to do the same thing, they’re going to jail.