I do not look or sound like a “citizen”. When I did field service in the South Bronx many years ago everyone addressed me in Spanish first. I do not consider it a big deal to produce ID when asked. Maybe because I am from a totalitarian country and my expectations in this area are low.
“Maybe because I am from a totalitarian country and my expectations in this area are low.”
Could be but I was born in a country backed by the US Constitution with civil liberties given to me by that and I want all citizens of this country to not slide towards living in an environment that feels totalitarian.
Hear, hear, @Hanna on your post #199! =D> ^:)^
In our state, lots of us are all kinds of colors and nationalities, documented and undocumented. So far, haven’t heard of anyone being asked whether they are a citizen, or being asked to produce anything hing to prove it.
The slide into a totalitarian state starts with selective enforcement of the law, using euphemisms (1984) instead of plain, accurate language, and not treating every citizen equally. That has been happening far too much in our country. That includes so-called sanctuary states and cities, which are treating non-citizens better than citizens. No wonder citizens are leaving in droves from those places. It has nothing to do with being white.
“That includes so-called sanctuary states and cities, which are treating non-citizens better than citizens. No wonder citizens are leaving in droves from those places. It has nothing to do with being white.”
You lost me with this claim. Here’s map of sanctuary cities. You claim these are all facing a rapid decrease in their populations?!
https://cis.org/Map-Sanctuary-Cities-Counties-and-States
Can you explain how non-citizens are treated better than citizens?
“which are treating non-citizens better than citizens”
I was wondering how you arrive at that conclusion, too. I live in a sanctuary city, and I don’t see it.
@doschicos Thank you for sharing that map.
However, the source, the “Center for Immigration Studies”, isn’t very reliable as they are heavily biased.
“favors far lower immigration numbers and produces research to further those views.”
How is a map created of cities that label themselves as sanctuary cities open to bias? Don’t create “bias” where none can be found. That’s not very scientific, @sciencenerd. 
Even conservative leaning sources use it.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/map-over-200-sanctuary-cities-in-32-states-and-dc/article/2567880
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421006/all-areas-where-illegal-aliens-arent-deported-one-map-celina-durgin
@doschicos I didn’t mean to imply the map was biased. Just the source. 
Some of the articles they publish are very heavily biased to the point of demonizing immigrants and is just in bad taste imho.
I live in a sanctuary city and no one is leaving “in droves.” I’d love to see proof of that statement.
.
Note that I am referring to illegal aliens, not legal visitors and legal immigrants.
As an illegal alien, I broke the laws of my guest country by entering illegally or overstaying my visa/time limit.
I work under the table, not paying taxes, or commit identity or social security fraud.
I don’t have insurance on my car.
If I have a child in the US, they become a US citizen, and I can get government benefits based on the number of people in my household (regardless of their immigration status)
I get a free education, K-12, despite contributing nothing toward it.
I get in-state tuition and FA in states like CA, even as an ‘international’.
I get free medical care at the ER or government clinics, even if I have cancer or bad kidneys.
If I am criminal, I wreak havoc on the citizens of my guest country.
What is the repercussion if ICE apprehends me? I get a plane ticket back home. Maybe I’ll be back in a few months.
As a citizen, I am obligated to follow all of the laws and regulations of my municipality, county, state, and federal governments. I cannot commit crimes, not pay taxes, receive benefits, medical assistance or assume the identity of another person without repercussions or obligation.
I don’t work under the table, and pay taxes approaching 50% of my income
I carry insurance on my car, house, etc.
I don’t get a free education, because I pay property taxes and income taxes which support my local school system, and I pay for the education of illegals too. My local K-12 system has gotten a lot worse since there are so many illegals in it, so I also pay for private schools for my kids.
I don’t get in-state tuition or FA in 49 other states, and 194 other countries.
I have to pay for my own medical care, whether as part of my employment compensation or on my own, and I have to pay for the medical care of illegals too.
My fellow citizens don’t have as many jobs because so many illegals have taken them, so I have to take care of them. If you don’t believe me ask anyone who works or worked in construction.
I have to deal with a lower quality of life because of more criminals, terrorists, pollution, people, traffic, and gangs. For example my car was sideswiped by an illegal who drove off , and a woman in the car in front of me was hospitalized when rear-ended. The police don’t even bother to try to find them.
@doschicos
https://www.uhaul.com/Articles/About/13040/U-Haul-Growth-States-Texas-Remained-No-1-IN-2017/
Sorry no data about cities, but there is only one sanctuary state.
That U-Haul article is inadequate proof of anything. Besides, did you notice that map includes 2 sanctuary counties in TX centered around the fastest growing areas in Texas, Austin and Dallas?
Those county government officials are going to have a problem since they are directly contravening
Texas state law SB4. Have you visited there recently? It’s not pretty in south Austin.
"As an illegal alien, I broke the laws of my guest country by entering illegally or overstaying my visa/time limit.
“I work under the table, not paying taxes, or commit identity or social security fraud.”
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes
“I get a free education, K-12, despite contributing nothing toward it.”
see above
“If I am criminal, I wreak havoc on the citizens of my guest country.”
The vast majority aren’t criminals so moot point.
“I don’t work under the table, and pay taxes approaching 50% of my income”
Good for you. Many Americans do work under the table and cheat the system.
“I don’t get a free education, because I pay property taxes and income taxes which support my local school system”
Everyone pays property taxes either directly or indirectly through rent, illegal or not.
“I don’t get in-state tuition or FA in 49 other states, and 194 other countries.”
Move there and you could.
“I have to pay for my own medical care, whether as part of my employment compensation or on my own”
And you could get the same if you were an uninsured American citizen and walked into an ER. You’re paying for all uninsured.
“My fellow citizens don’t have as many jobs because so many illegals have taken them, so I have to take care of them.”
Unemployment is low across the country. Come to my area. There are jobs available, construction included, for those willing to work.
Just a few quick responses but…it is all besides the point of this thread which is an overreach of power by ICE which is affecting civil liberties granted by the Constitution. This overreach is affecting US Citizens as well as illegals. This is what you should be concerned about. Even if I shared the concerns about illegals that you have outlined /(which I don’t), the ends don’t justify the means when the means are trampling on our rights and freedoms as citizens.
Perhaps some people are not concerned about citizens losing rights and freedoms as long as only other citizens (the ones who “just look illegal” in this case) rather than themselves are the ones losing rights and freedoms.
Sadly, I have a feeling you are correct, @ucbalumnus. It’s all too clear we have second class citizens in this country
@ucbalumnus , you have a valid point. ICE operates under administrative law, so the same constitutional protections do not apply to them for immigration purposes. But I think practically speaking we are going to have to go to a proof of citizenship system because of the sheer numbers of illegals.
@doschicos , yes, illegal aliens pay billions in taxes. They cost over a hundred billion in services. $115 billion in net loss on illegals. Do you think that a few sales and gas taxes come anywhere close to $10-20K/illegal child K-12 cost + medical care + social services? Seriously? And there is also the matter of breaking the law.
Not everyone domicile pays for schools. Government housing does not. Mobile homes do not either. And renters generally pay a lot less than homeowners. When you stuff 10 people in a 2 bedroom apartment you might as well not be paying anything. That doesn’t even meet fire codes.
Adding violent foreign gangs is not a moot point. Ask anyone who lives in one of those areas. San Francisco used to be a safe city. It’s not just crime, now Hep A is rampant and you have a poop app.
I don’t have any problem paying for my fellow citizens, but I do for illegals. They are the responsibility of their own country. We have enough poor people of our own to take care of. If you want to take care of them, go ahead, but do it with your own money and not everyone else’s.
Plenty of illegals pay payroll taxes, income taxes and never collect on any services.
You apply extreme examples as being representative of illegals across the board. Look at some of the articles linked on this thread - doctors, professors, etc. They aren’t draining the system.
“But I think practically speaking we are going to have to go to a proof of citizenship system because of the sheer numbers of illegals.”
A lot of people, myself included, disagree with this and the direction we are going in towards becoming that. That, again, is the point of this thread. This isn’t a debate on illegal aliens.