As a citizen, I am not willing to give up the great principle of assumption of innocence as part of an effort to track down people who happen to be in this country without proper documentation.
In terms of reducing unauthorized immigration, it would be much more effective and much less intrusive than ICE checks of people wherever they may be to (a) have all employers use E-Verify, and (b) have more allowed immigration. But (a) has opposition from both the left and the right (for often different reasons), and (b) is opposed by the same people who complain about unauthorized immigration, since they mostly want to reduce all immigration (sometimes for racist purposes, like FAIR and CIS founder John Tanton’s statement that he had “come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that” http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/michigan/2017/03/15/mich-man-led-immigration-fight-nearly-forgotten/99193990/ ).
“San Francisco used to be a safe city.”
Is this one of the cities that people are leaving in droves? The one where a one-bedroom apartment costs $3300 a month, more than in Manhattan? Looks like demand to live in San Francisco is high and rising.
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/12/telling-the-truth-about-crime-in-americas-cities/548930/
Bottom line, one can’t make some blanket statements about the crime rate in this country. If crime is increasing/decreasing in a certain location, to paint it as attributable to illegal immigrants rather than a myriad of other factors is overly simplistic and sensationalized.
If one wants to delve into crime data, here’s a good place to start:
https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/crime-trends1990-2016
The US birth rate is declining, you can’t argue about the costs of immigrates without weighing up the good that these people do. They pay taxes, contribute to medicaid and our bankrupt social security. These illegal children will be paying your social security.
The crime rate is no higher (even lower) for immigrants than it is for citizens.
http://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-undocumented-immigrants-crime-pew.html?AMP
You left out states like Texas, Oklahoma, and Utah that have similar rules. But such provision is typically limited to those who graduate high school in that state after at least three years of attendance (i.e. limited to DACA / DREAMer people who were involuntary (as children) unauthorized immigrants), but may also cover others (including US citizens) whose parents leave the state immediately after they graduate from high school.
Crime rates in San Francisco have fluctuated over the last decade or two, with no unambiguous up or down trend (though it may be that theft is up, but most violent crime is down).
Elon Musk overstayed his visa and Melania Trump worked before she had a work visa. Today, they would be in danger of being unceremoniously thrown out. “Sorry, you forgot to dot the i in question #78”.
I fully understand the value of following rules, filling out forms, having proper papers, and doing things correctly and honestly. People who do that should be honored and appreciated. But I don’t want to throw out every person who isn’t perfect, who worked a little early, overstayed their tourist visa, etc. It’s a far cry from having committed violent felonies or even DUI.
So we get asked if we are citizens. If we are, we don’t have to show papers. If we aren’t, we do have to show papers. ICE is supposed to figure this out with a verbal answer? IMO it’s asking too much of people who aren’t trained all that well. Would they believe Melania with her heavy accent? Would they just not care because she is European and pretty? It’s just too subjective, too dependent on the bias or non-bias of the individual agent, just far too murky to be trustworthy.
Here you go…http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/02/08/san-francisco-bay-area-mass-exodus-residents/
The article doesn’t say that people are leaving in droves because it’s a sanctuary city (though one person interviewed mentioned that). It says the top reason is the high cost of housing.
It doesn’t make sense for someone opposed to living in a sanctuary city to want to move to Austin as a remedy. Austin challenged Texas’ anti sanctuary city law in court.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/02/texas-sanctuary-city-lawsuit/366448001/
Oh, and at the age of 58 I am now in possession - for the very first time - of my certified birth certificate. Had a passport since I was 6 months old - not sure what M&D had to do at that time in orderr to procure said passport, so the BC was never on my mind.
It took about 10 minutes to fill out the form and address the envelope. Hardest part was enclosing the self addressed stamped envelope for the BC’s. Mailed request Weds. BC arrived in the mail today.
Also, Sacramento and Portland are “sanctuary cities”.
It is doubtful that “sanctuary city” by itself factors into many people’s decision (as opposed to economic factors like the cost of housing). Those who care about such things probably care a lot more about other (often related) social or political reasons.
It certainly affected our decision not to move to one, and to fight our insane city council who is always wasting time on items that are not the purvey of city government. I personally know several people who have left because of the sanctuary state/city designation - mostly because of more random crime and high cost of living which are they symptoms of that type of government.
Wait, sanctuary city policies cause high cost of living? How does that work? Under what immigration policy would San Francisco, Seattle, Manhattan, Honolulu, and Boston have lower cost of living?
The costs are high in those cities because there are tons of jobs, tons of well-paid people want to live there, and the supply of real estate is finite (partly due to policy and partly to geography). Zoning and building regulations, yes, those raise the cost of living.
You are offering “But I know several exceptions!” to disprove the law of supply and demand. The market doesn’t lie. If the prices are the highest in the country, then the aggregate of people with a lot of choices view the location as highly desirable.
I could find 10 people who like yak milk better than Champagne. That wouldn’t change the fact that the market says Champagne wins.
@dietz199 I wonder if you had an easier time getting your BC because you already had a passport. Would it be harder for someone if they only had a drivers license?Or what if they had some kind of expired or outdated form of id?
I would not assume that just because you were able to get it so quickly that others would also be able to get it so quickly as well.
However, I do think everyone should have some form of ID. You never know when you will need it.
^^ I did not send proof (copy) of a DL or passport. The application did not ask for any form of ID. It asked for DOB, parents’ names, city and county.
If mailed, the form needed to be notarized. The notary stamp did not include any other ID info.
If I had gone in person they would probably have asked for a form of ID.
What I did have, and of which I included a copy - just because - was a form from the hospital indicating ‘live birth’. That form also stated a certified BC would be issued, by the city recorders office and upon request, for the fee of $1.00 per copy. There was no expiration date on the $1.00 offer :). I was tempted to insist they honor the offer but figured my time could be better spent fighting other fights.
Appointment for the newly available real ID DL is made. Will get that in a few weeks. That will require a number of forms of ID.
@Hanna , I meant that governments that impose sanctuary policies also impose policies which drive costs up. Basic economics dictates that higher demand for housing caused by sanctuary policies will increase rental prices, and security, education and medical care costs of illegals need to be borne by the residents of the city/state. That cost ranges from $8-$25K per person, depending on the location.
When nearly every small business client I have in Chicagoland is trying to figure out how to leave not just the city, but the state of Illinois because of costs, I think I have a pretty good idea what is going to happen in the near future. Do you think the exodus from Bay area is just normal? Workers won’t accept jobs there because they can’t afford housing and don’t want to commute 3 hours.
So no matter what your stand is, you should at least recognize that when you increase costs prices are going to follow.
The notary is affirming that they have seen ID and know that it is you.
I wouldn’t be happy if the process is too easy. If it is, that means anyone could just get a copy of your birth certificate.
In the NY Times today - “… Border patrol steps up searches far from the border”. They’ve been using drug sniffing dogs too.
I wonder if Sen. Leahy was stopped in VT or somewhere else.
In the Texas case, a man owning a ranch 35 miles from the border has had ICE agents crawling over his property all the time. He and his family members have been stopped. The last straw was when he found that they had left a surveillance camera in one of his trees. He took the camera and sued. Don’t mess with Texas, lol.
“you should at least recognize that when you increase costs prices are going to follow.”
Should you recognize supply and demand? Because it sounds like you don’t.
No one goes to that restaurant any more…it’s too crowded!
Do people really carry around their passports and birth certificates everywhere they go? I did this with my passport when I lost my driver’s license, and everyone was constantly telling me how bad of an idea it is. And my birth certificate isn’t sturdy enough to keep in my pocket.