<p>My children and I have noticed that many teachers just love it when a kid is needy. Not needy in a major crisis kind of way, but needy in the sense of regularly looking to the teacher for attention, support, advice, etc. Since teaching is a helping profession, I would guess it attracts people who want to be needed, so this makes sense. </p>
<p>My kids are well-adjusted and self-confident, but aside from that I guess they’re pretty independent and don’t tend to require a lot of help and advice. When they do need advice, they’d come to us, their parents or to each other as a first thought–not to a teacher. However, where this style negatively affects them is that they’ve noticed that other kids develop closer, parental-type relationships with teachers which gives them the perks that come with that like preferred grading (eg. teachers will tell such kids “you always come to me for help and are trying so hard so I gave you the benefit of the doubt on the test”), great college recommendations, etc.</p>
<p>Also, they’ve noticed that teachers and coaches actually seem to reward less mature ways of handling situations. A kid who is direct, and deals with a problem can be intimidating to them. For example, in a recent team meeting, the coach asked the kids for their preference regarding staffing of events for an upcoming track meet. D expressed her preference with valid reasons (like she hadn’t practiced all season for the event the coach wanted to put her in for the championships and she didn’t feel comfortable doing it). Another child was asked if she had a preference and said no. But after the meeting, that child complained, cried and caused major drama over her placement. Coach felt bad and accused D of not having a team atttitude because she expressed a preference when asked. Result? Girl who said nothing during the meeting but complained and cried afterward, made herself a victim and got what she wanted and somehow D was the bad guy in it all.</p>
<p>Another example. D runs all three season. Is struggling with academics right now, so told coach she needed to miss some practices to get caught up and bring up her grades. Coach was inflexible and claims he can’t allow that. However, there’s another girl on the team who regularly has hysterical crying meltdowns at practice about her life because she’s overwhelmed with all she has to do. She has missed numerous practices and several meets because of academics and that was OK. She even got named capt. D thought it best to be proactive and take some time off before her life got to the point where she’s falling apart in tears at practice once or twice a week. But no sympathy. So I guess being an emotional mess is better? That got rewarded.</p>
<p>I see the same sort of thing happening at college.</p>
<p>Students who are doing well in a course and don’t need extra help would have to force themselves to go to office hours and waste the professor’s time asking irrelevant questions while there in order to make their names known. Many don’t bother doing it because it feels ridiculous. Those who struggle show up at office hours because they need to, and the professor gets to know them well. Therefore, it’s actually easier for the professors to write recommendations for the more dependent students than the more independent ones.</p>
<p>Exactly. Once S was not chosen for an academic award which was supposed to be based on grades, even though S had the top grades. Teacher admitted that while he did indeed have better grades than the other child, S didn’t seem to have to work very hard for it while the other child did. Hmm.</p>
<p>I agree that this is a problem, but I think one can put a better face on at least part of it. Teachers, like anybody, want feedback and affirmation that what they are doing matters. To the college professor, the kid who never comes to office hours may be sending the message that he’s just not that interested, and that the professor hasn’t engaged him. I suspect that the teachers would respond just as positively to a student who comes to talk to them about things that interest them as to a student who needs help.</p>
<p>Our family tends not to be overtly emotional, so we actually discuss this issue a lot. Unfortunately, the drama queens get all the attention and sympathy. The same story, relayed factually, vs with drama, can get vastly different results. Teachers around here pride themselves as being fair, and on to all those tricks – they are so oblivious - they have no idea how inconsistent and biased they are.</p>
<p>I like to relay the story of a Dr visit where I had sciatica so severe I could barely walk - he gave me a prescription for tylenol (not with codeine) Now I have learned to inject more pathos into my visits.</p>
<p>Recently, my d went in to the school with a major issue. I had to warn her ahead of time to show emotion & act upset !! She was truly upset, but she is not very demonstrative, & I was worried they would not respond to her without the drama !!!</p>
<p>Hunt, I do agree with your point. In high school though it’s a little trickier. For example, the strong students generally do not take a study hall and often are involved in sports or clubs after school. Therefore, they have to really, really need help before they go to get it because there’s not a built-in time in their schedules to do so casually. Kids who have study hall and are noticed doing their work, tend to be viewed more positively it seems.</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve noticed the sympathy effect with some teachers. In some cases, it can be helpful, and can help bring a student along to a better place. That’s good! But, I cringe, when an academic or other award is obviously based on sympathy and not on talent or achievement, when others are passed over because they didn’t solicit attention. It does seem as if sometimes those non-squeakers do get the shaft.</p>
<p>This hasn’t been my daughter’s experience at all - in fact her experience is far more similar to what Hunt describes. She has very good relationships with many teachers through extracurriculars, etc; perhaps in middle school students were rewarded out of sympathy but that hasn’t been the case in her high school. I think teachers do want students to talk to them about things other than class material they may be struggling with; that’s how relationships are made, the good recommendations written; if a teacher knows your child as a person as well as a student those recs will be so much stronger. At D’s high school, kids with study hall are perceived as not doing as much as they can to “push” themselves; study hall is perceived as a no-credit class for low achievers or those with a low level of motivation. I’m sure each school is different.</p>
<p>Students can go to office hours for reasons other than academic struggles–I’ve gone to discuss a professor’s research and to discuss co-op options before.</p>
<p>I have observed in corporate life that the drama queens (and kings) end up being stunted in terms of advancement and opportunity regardless of how talented they are in other ways. It is wearing on everyone to contstantly hear from someone how stressed out or undersupported they are. We all have deadlines, we all juggle things.</p>
<p>Tell your daughter to buck up-- another 10 years and problem will be over!</p>
<p>Our HS is just the opposite, particularly in honors/AP courses; they use the tough love strategy (“many of you should drop this course, bcos I’m only giving out 2-3 A’s” out of 35 kids), including just being plain mean.</p>
<p>This is a pet peeve of my son’s. He says certain
teachers want a relationship with the students that
he finds way too personal. It’s not just that they want
the students to master the material. In fact they
seem irked that he aces tests but maintains a “professional”
demeanor.</p>
<p>I sure hope you’re right, blossom, about this being the
best attitude in the end. In his college classes (he’s a
dual-enrolled junior) this seems to be not a problem at all.</p>
<p>Hunt: it is normal for people to have better relationships with others whom they see more often and in a variety of settings. That’s OK, so long as it doesn’t lead to favoritism in the classroom.</p>
<p>Bluebayou–Don’t misunderstand me. Our HS is like that too in many ways. See my AP thread, where I discuss the AP teacher who knows the students as a group are doing poorly but says it’s too bad but he can’t stop to help. So maybe the lesson my D has to learn is to ignore that. If a teacher says he can’t or won’t help, my D would probably accept that at face value and either try to swim on her own or sink (what she’s doing), or seek help elsewhere. But what she probably should do is show up at his door every day, crying.</p>
<p>Wow, am I (a teacher & currently additional roles in education) a lone voice on this thread. </p>
<p>I could not disagree more with the original premise. Or at least I should qualify that and limit myself to excellent teachers, born teachers, talented teachers. The genuine teacher impulse is virtually indistinguishable from the genuine physician impulse: it’s neutral, it’s professional, it has “blinders,” if you will. The student/(“patient”) is presented to you in a classroom/hospital room/examination room, and you’re interested only in attending to the realistic and actual “needs,” including if those needs are to be not needed, to be independent, to be supported as mature. Even if the student/patient presents with major “neediness,” your job, your only job, is to enable that student/patient not to be needy, to work toward not needing you. The student could have 7 varieties of LD: you are still there to enable proficiency, success, academic maturity. The “diagnosis” merely allows you to see that person realistically, accurately; allows you to prescribe & treat, “heal” & prosper. Period. It’s not about your need to be needed. It’s about your value & effectiveness as an agent of growth/health.</p>
<p>Too many people in the “helping professions” see the emphasis way too much on the first word in that phrase, way too little on the second word.</p>
<p>When I taught college, I didn’t have a high opinion of students who just stopped by office hours to chat or to go over info that had been clearly explained in class. I did have a high opinion of students who stopped by to delve into info in more depth than I could go into in class.</p>
<p>And, of course, when opportunities for students arose, the students whom I knew best and respected the most would be first in line for them.</p>
<p>This is the way the world works: Someone who just quietly does hard work will be overlooked while those who establish real relationships with higher ups will get the opportunities.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I have no problem with what you say at all. The difference between what you describe and what we see on the high school level is that you ARE rewarding mature behavior. S, whose pet peeve was exactly the same as geomom’s son, felt that many teachers wanted a relationship or something else from the students that was inconsistent with his personality and comfort level. At college, however, he has been free to speak with professors in the way you describe.</p>
<p>I think that currying favor with teachers should not require weepiness, clinginess, having crushes, and similar emotional fawning.</p>
<p>GFG,
I have noticed that there are many h.s. teachers who appear to get a lot of pleasure from saving others from self-made emergencies. I agree that such people may be prone to rewarding students who act in a needy way. Fortunately, most college professors aren’t like this.</p>
<p>This is a pretty interesting topic. Probably applies to parenting too.</p>
<p>I’ve seen several different approaches from teachers/ coaches, which might break down into these broad extremes. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>“you’re pretty good, and have great potential, and with just a few small adjustments, you’ll be really successful [with your studies, your instrument, your performance, your sport’s technique]” Encourager of competence and independence. Or, depending on the student…this is not very good, but you can really improve it if you invest in yourself. </p></li>
<li><p>"you’re flawed, but with my help and mine alone, (because I hold the Rosetta Stone of experience and insight), if you pay enough attention to me, you perhaps can climb to the lower tiers of the upper levels. But you’ll never get it right on your own…my instructions must be followed meticulously. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>The difference is between the people who want their pupils to be better than they ever were, and those who need to be regarded as the smartest most knowledgeable teacher(coach) in the room)on the court).</p>