I am trying to understand how ED does or doesn’t affect chances for a student who is a target/reach (GPA wise) for schools like Pomona or Pitzer that are competitive regardless. Admission rates seem higher for ED and some highly-ranked LACs. Does this mean an ED application is more likely to be accepted or is this unrelated? If deferred to RD, I’ve seen some hint that it reduces your chances in RD. Trying to understand this all as we consider whether to do ED next fall.
This is very school dependent. If deferred, the student will be in the mix for the other RD candidates. Unless you have a crystal ball, it’s hard to predict what this means.
At some colleges, the ED rate appears higher, but it includes developmental admits, legacy, somethings athletes, etc…so when these other folks are added into the mix, the ED rate for regular applicants isn’t much higher.
My opinion, apply ED only if it is your student’s top choice and the costs are affordable (do the net price calculators to get that estimate).
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Agree it is school dependent. But many LACs do seem happy to lock-in good applicants in the ED round. Note that ED acceptance rates are somewhat inflated as they include hooked applicants (ex. recruited athletes, kids of big donors) who tyically apply in the ED round.
ED should be taken seriously as the student commits to attend (if affordable). I only recommend ED when the student has a definite top choice that appears affordable (run NPC).
ETA: If an ED application is deferred to RD the school is not ready to admit the applicant at that point. I don’t think there would be a lower chance of being accepted in the RD round as compared to if the student applied RD. The school may want to see first semester senior year grades or compare the applicant to the entire pool before making a decision.
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Opt for ED if a school is your kid’s absolute top choice and you can afford it and don’t need to compare aid packages. But I agree that with LACs, the higher ED rate includes students whom the college is targeting: recruited athletes, some legacy admits, children of potentially high-profile donors, Questbridge/FGLI, etc. For someone not in those profiles, there is probably an ED edge, but not as much as appears at first glance. For some students not in the categories I listed, who might be a coin flip for RD, the implicit demonstrated interest of applying ED might put them over the edge. Or maybe not.
I suspect that deferral gives a student an edge in the RD round, but who knows how much of of an edge? A deferral is not a soft rejection (had the school wanted to reject the student outright, they would have done so in the ED round). It’s a sign that the student could be a fit, but the school wants to see how the class shapes up first. A deferral also leaves time for the student to write a LOCI or update with new achievements, which most RD students can’t do.
My D23 applied to a selective LAC ED, which seemingly had a high ED advantage (strictly by the numbers), and was rejected. She decided not to apply anywhere ED2, and in the RD round was accepted to a few schools with lower overall admissions rates than the ED school’s overall (not just ED) admission rate. Sample of one, but that experience suggests to me that the ED boost might be exaggerated for most students who are not priority admits. S26 was accepted into his ED school, so we have no comparison there.
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As @thumper1 noted - it depends on the school.
A Brown says: Please do not assume that your admission chances are improved by applying under the Early Decision plan. The Board of Admission makes the same decisions under Early Decision that it would under the Regular Decision plan.
Georgetown says - There is no statistical advantage in applying Early Action, as both our Early Action and Regular Decision pools will have roughly the same acceptance rate. Typically, about 15 percent of the candidates deferred from Early Action are successful during the spring review.
I bring this up because you mention Pomona and Pitzer - and these schools are not in the same category.
Pomona is a need blind school - meaning your finances don’t matter. They admitted 7% overall but near double that ED. What you don’t know is how many were “invited”. Given it’s a small school, that could impact. Take out ED and Pomona admitted just over 6%.
Pitzer is need aware - so for example, if you have an amount of need that’s higher than they want to support, they will reject you just for that. A similar school, Lafayette, discussed this at length a few years ago - how they do this. In their case, they turned down hundreds of academically qualifying high need kids in order to preserve/spread the budget. I don’t know Pitzer’s policy but they are able to take need into account.
Pitzer admits 3.5 times the percentage of Pomona - or 25%. Their ED rate is 42% and take out ED, it’s a bit under 23% - so nearly 4x Pomona.
I will tell you “domestic” student rates are higher. Pomona doesn’t break out international and may admit at the same rate. Pitzer only 5.3%. I will hypothesize that’s a money grab.
Also, Pomona has no merit aid and Pitzer does. If you apply ED, I’m hypothesizing you wouldn’t get merit aid (except schools like St. Olaf that promise it for ED). Why would they give you money if you are committed? Pitzer is a bad example - they only gave 5 kids merit and $7K on average. But other Pitzer level schools go much deeper.
It is, as @thumper1 said, school specific, but other than sharing a campus area (of several schools), these two aren’t in the same league for comparison purposes.
In the end, you will be somewhere, four years, day after day. ED is not a tool to use to get into a college. It’s a tool to use to get into my clear top choice, that I can afford and 100% want to be at - i.e. I won’t have buyer’s remorse immediately after as many do because I wish I could hear from other schools.
As for deferrals, some believe it will be tougher in RD. I don’t. I think, you’ll get a full shake in RD. It doesn’t mean your app will be accepted. It depends on how it stands up with the RD ranks.
If they wanted to reject you, they would have done so in ED. Others get Wait Listed - which typically will happen from RD, not ED - not sure if anyone does from ED or not. A Wait List is a rejection - they are saying we can’t accept you. But - if we don’t get enough enrolling, we have the right to call you back. A deferral isn’t this. A deferral is simply saying - we are moving you to the RD round and will compare you there. Also, some top schools will defer you but then encourage you to apply ED2 - meaning, we said no because you didn’t apply binding - but apply binding and you might be happily surprised. So they are gaming you, just like some like to game the schools on ED. In the end, you’re going to apply to x colleges (10 as an example) and get into 8 (as an example) and attend 1. The schools have a much more difficult time - because they need butts in seat and they have a 1:8 chance in this example - so they have to work harder. So some, push ED ad nauseum and it’s understandable why that is.
Hope that makes sense.
Good luck.
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I’m not aware of any school that moves a student from the ED1 to the ED2 round (of course I could be wrong). I am aware of schools that invite students to move themselves from EA to ED2 (because by that point it’s too late to opt for ED1), and many schools that give a short grace period during which RD applicants can move themselves to ED2, after applications are in. But if you’re deferred from an ED round, it’s always to RD, to my knowledge. You don’t get a choice as to which round to enter at that point. And I’m not sure how the timing would work – deferral from an RD round to an ED round would be impossible, given the usual decision dates.
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Yes defer from EA To RD but ask you (or as you say invite you) to go ED2.
I was talking about deferral - not ED specifically. I should have pointed that out. Thanks for clarifying.
I should note and it was 5 years ago so maybe less deferrals back then?? - but my daughter and her friends were all deferred at Miami - all but one who got in EA. I believe all of them got accepted RD with the same $25k merit. One school. One scenario. But I’m sure plenty get in deferred as Gtown noted in their example above.
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One more thing of note:
Back to need blind vs. need aware.
Miami is not an easy in - yet all my kid’s friends got in. Miami is need aware. All, as far as I know, were full pay.
Pitzer is need aware. Of 310 first years, only 101 got any need aid (and 5 merit aid) so most are paying full there. It’s similar at Emory, Tufts, Wake Forest, etc. - these are as I deem them - schools for the wealthy or rich kid schools.
55% of Pomona kids got need aid. Still a lot of wealthy but a much higher percentage than the tick below 33% getting any money at Pitzer..
In other words, money might cover some warts, especially in ED, at a need aware school.
Money, in some cases, may be more or as important than your academic credentials…may be, not definitely….again, school dependent - and Pomona and Pitzer are in buckets a few levels of competitiveness apart (IMHO). But it shows you how money factors into an ED decision - so if you are full pay, there are many many many schools where ED will offer a clear advantage. Pomona wouldn’t be one of them as they are need blind.
I agree with other answers that you should only apply ED at all if BOTH of the following are true: (1) There is one school that is clearly the student’s top choice; (2) Either you are fine being full pay with no problems, or you have run the NPC and are happy with the result. If this last point applies, I would also print out and keep a copy of the NPC in case the actual award does not match the NPC results.
I also agree with other answers that have pointed out that the ED acceptance rates can be distorted by recruited athletes and legacy students.
In terms of developing a budget, also keep in mind whether or not some form of graduate school is likely. If a student is considering law school, or medical school, or some other form of “not typically fully funded” graduate program, it can be a huge help to the student if the parents are able to help to offset the cost. Also, some students take more than 4 years to get their bachelor’s degree, so again having some cushion can be helpful.
In my family none of us applied ED at all. We nonetheless all did just fine in admissions, got a great education, and then a few years later ended up in very good graduate programs. Highly selective schools in the US, such as highly-ranked LACs, are looking for students who are a good fit for them. They get it right quite often (even for students who have applied EA or RD).
I have always believed that an ED applicant who is deferred gets reconsidered objectively in the regular admit pile. In some cases, the ED demonstrated interest might even give them an edge in RD. As brought up, there may be exceptions.
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I think this is important to note and so many mis understand this.
At some schools today, the bulk of the class comes in ED. But many assume they can’t get in RD.
But they have to admit 5, 8, 10x the amount of kids they need in RD to fill the remainder of the class - because depending on the school, those RD yields are quite low. So a lot more kids are getting in RD than ED, even at those schools filling half or more of the class ED.
I think people miss that fact.
No one needs to ED. They can. But they don’t need to. It’s a choice.
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Emory has tremendous financial aid. I’d check your stats on that.
Per the 24/25 CDs, 575 of 1437 got need aid.
They, like many including Pitzer have great aid if chosen, but only 40% received and they are now need aware to boot. 81 did get merit aid there.
But I put them in the category for people with money. Most schools seek a certain type kid such as minority (harder to do now), FGLI and more.
Most top tier schools have a large wealth contingent. Emory isn’t in the worst category but closer to the bottom than top in my estimation but somewhere in the middle overall. Going need aware as they recently did, it might go lower.
Thanks.
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It entirely depends on the school. Some colleges will “defer” 80% or more of ED applicants. Since they may in the end accept 10% or less of RD applicants methinks they actually have a good idea many of the deferred kids don’t have a chance. On the other hand, Pomona says this in it’s FAQ
“We typically defer 10-15 percent of our early applicants’ candidacies. If you were deferred, it means that the Admissions Committee found strong potential in your early application and would like to consider your application again among those in the regular decision round.”
I would not recommend applying ED to one of these schools unless you are really sure it’s where you want to go. Given that a few days ago you were asking about East Coast LACs has there been a change of focus? See List of smaller colleges on East Coast with strong science/chem?
Ooh. I hope they respond on that thread. They did not provide enough info to formulate an answer.
I don’t know why you think Pitzer admission of internationals is a “money grab.” The substantial majority of Pitzer students are full pay already. International students only make up 9-11% of students, so the majority of domestic students are already full pay. I’m not sure they need to dip to internationals as a “money grab” given the number of domestic students willing to pay full tuition there. Moreover, one of the college’s 5 core values is “Intercultural Understanding.” Thus, having a robust international student population is consistent with their mission and what those who buy into the school’s values would expect. Much less than 9-11% wouldn’t seem to be a critical mass of international students. I suspect the significantly lower admissions rate for internationals is due to more non-competitive international students applying who do not understand what is needed to get into Pitzer which is less known than some of its sibling LACs. Moreover, it is not clear to me why a lower admissions rate for internationals than domestics would be evidence of a money grab. I’d think a money grab you’d admit them more easily, not less easily. Nothing I’ve seen suggests that Pitzer’s international students are there as a “money grab.”
OP - my kid considered EDing to Pitzer but did not. She has no hooks. College counselors at her school were clear that her chances of admission to Pitzer were higher in ED than in RD. I believe they know what they are talking about. Of course, this tells you little to nothing about whether the same would be true for you as the stats, activities, and school context for you will be different. But I wanted to share that we were told there would be an admissions advantage to ED.
My kid did not consider ED at Pomona so I can’t speak to that one.
Because that’s exactly what it is. Kids applying ‘internationally’ likely meet college requirements for internationals. That they are able to apply puts them at some level of quality on average.
But just like many do for Wait Lists here, colleges are picking and choosing who to let in for their financial benefit. Even top tier schools are losing money operationally. Schools, not top tier, like Pitzer, that are pulling 4% a year to keep the school operational, need to pull more $$. Their endowment is on the smaller side. They are a business, no different than a restaurant or mall store but with a different product and tax exempt status. They have expenses and need revenues.
Pitzer is not alone but this is most likely exactly why their (and other privates) have much lower international acceptance rates than domestic. Publics, on the other hand, have much closer to the same rate.
You might note very few colleges assure 100% for international and meet need.
You may note very few want to believe it but the evidence is all there to show that for many private schools, internationals are a money grab. Even at most publics, while admit rates are high, merit aid is often less than for domestic students.
In most (not all) cases, it’s pretty clear international is pay to play.
Despite all the caveats noted, ED does provide an advantage compared to RD for strong applicants who have well-tailored applications. And with need-blind schools that meet 100% of demonstrated need (with NPC’s carefully worked out), the financial package may also be attractive. A candidate who gets rejected ED or gets deferred and then rejected, would most likely have been rejected in a straight-RD application anyway.
I think we may define money grab differently. If you mean they want to admit full pay international students, we agree. But that seems no different than Pitzer’s domestic students who, as you pointed out earlier in this thread, are mostly full pay. If your point is that Pitzer prioritizes students who are full pay to meet their budget, I agree and they say that when they state they are need aware, even for domestic students. If your point is that they don’t give much if any financial aid to international students, I agree. But, it doesn’t follow that those things make international admissions a money grab.
I don’t accept the premise that the main reason a school, let alone a school that has intercultural understanding as a core value, would want 10% international students, is for money.
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