Does Harvard (or other Ivy Leagues) have a quota for Asian applicants?

Colleges & Universities Harvard University
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Well you hate it because you don’t understand it. It’s people like you who are the ones belittling the accomplishments of African Americans, women, Hispanics, Midwesterners, Southerners, Hispanics, Native Americans, working middle class students, etc. </p>

<p>Maybe if people could realize that the only reason why HYP, etc. are considered “very selective” is because being “qualified” is not enough there would be no fuss. Too many kids on here believe in the faux concept of being “more/lesser” qualified. Hate to break it to you but there is no such thing. So many kids pursue academics and try to define themselves through it. They join math club, science club, take 10+ AP classes, strive to get 2200+ SAT scores, compete to be ranked in the top 1% of their class, etc. thinking, incorrectly, that all they have to do is show selective colleges that they are qualified, or in their minds “more than qualified” for admissions. As you can see by the thousands of these sorts of applicants that are routinely rejected from highly selective schools this probably is not painting the picture of being “more than qualified.” According to the MIT admissions blog, this sort of approach to college admissions paints the picture of the applicant being a “grinder” who is not actually all that bright and has little to offer the school and potential peers, so it’s not really a surprise that these sorts of students are frequently rejected.</p>

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All applicants, regardless of their race, are assessed in the context of their opportunities. As you have pointed out wealthier applicants tend to have gone to better high schools with more and better resources and opportunities; thus, it is no surprise that schools expect these students to have achieved more. After looking through this the result thread it’s become rather apparent that the URM/women with the 1800 SAT, no ECs, “bad” essays, etc getting into HYPMS, etc. is a myth that either ignorant or prejudiced kids want to push and assert as a normal occurrence.</p>

<p>Everyone:
Why do people think that being a Siemens finalists, [insert academic award] is any more relevant than being from the Midwest, South, being a women, African American, Hispanic, Native American, or from an under-represented socio-economic class? Though being a Siemens finalists does say something about the applicant it does not make the applicant “more qualified” than any of the other applicants. It primarily means that this applicant just had access to a unique opportunity and a vast amount of resources. After all, how many kids in the United States (or in the world) have access to the resources necessary to be competitive in the competition anyways? Moreover, I would contend that schools seek to admit these sorts of students to promote a certain level of diversity in the student body. If schools admitted them because they were “more qualified” than other applicants, which is what many of you incorrectly think, then wouldn’t they be admitting more of them? Replace being an Siemens finalists with perfect SAT score, USAMO, etc. It’s pretty OBVIOUS that schools admit these students to create a certain “feel” on their campuses not because these students are “more qualified.”</p>

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<p>Everyone:
Affirmative Action is not about race. It’s about under-represented groups. Last time I checked, any applicant in or below lower middle class is considered under-represented at highly selective schools; thus, Affirmative Action applies.</p>

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Please, let’s at least be specific. What’s “morally” wrong with Affirmative Action. I can say that not having Affirmative Action would be “immoral” because it is contrary to promoting diversity, which, according to Justice Powell, is a societal good. It would also be “immoral” to get rid of Affirmative Action because it would promote the consolidation of power within an undiverse group of elites, and, as history has shown, when the group in power is undiverse those who do not belong to the group are marginalized.</p>

<p>I think that highly selective schools realize that a majority of the country’s elite are produced within their schools, so I doubt they want to be responsible (again) for creating an undiverse group of elites.</p>

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That’s the real problem. Affirmative Action actually has little to do with this. It’s more just about Asian culture and Asians with similar credentials tending to apply to the same schools.</p>

<p>Read this:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/402460-concept-luck-harvard-admissios.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/402460-concept-luck-harvard-admissios.html&lt;/a&gt;

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<p>“Affirmative Action is not about race. It’s about under-represented groups. Last time I checked, any applicant in or below lower middle class is considered under-represented at highly selective schools; thus, Affirmative Action applies.”</p>

<p>How is an applicant determined to be in or below the middle class in an alleged “need-blind” admission system?</p>

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<p>Affirmative action is about race. It is a legal term applicable under aspects of Civil Rights legislation. It applies to underrespresented racial and ethnic groups. That is, when the poster says underrepresented groups to mean Native Americans he is right, but if he means gays or Aramaic speakers or Go players he is wrong.</p>

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<p>Would it help you if you were Asian-American and did not check the box for Race?</p>

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<p>^^^ my birthplace was “Dhaka, Bangladesh” and I could not NOT have included that. Thus, even if I left the “race” box blank … they would know I am Asian.</p>

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Look at the applicant’s school profile, zip code, family situation, and essays.</p>

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“It applies to underrespresented racial and ethnic groups.” Sorry but the Supreme Court judges who wrote the opinion in the Bakke case disagree with you. Also, HELLO! Women? Since when were women considered to be a race? </p>

<p>Anyways, no one knows how many homosexuals or Go players there are in the country so it’s impossible to determine whether or not they are under-represented in highly selective colleges. Also, homosexuals example is a terrible counter-example because there are many attending highly selective schools.</p>

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No research has been done on this. I noticed in a couple of decisions threads that most of the Asians who did not check the box for race were still rejected. This begs the question if colleges are rejecting Asians for being Asians or “Asians,” as in the stereotypical sense.</p>

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<p>newjack, the Bakke case was about reverse discimination and it did use race as consideration. What I mean is AA is not about economically distressed as you imply.</p>

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<p>newjack, your statement that at select colleges everyone who is below middle class is considered under represented is a preposterous use of AA. Yes, they are under-represented in terms of popular use of the term in that there are fewer but they do not have the protection of title 7 of civil rights act.</p>

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<p>ramaswami:
There’s nothing to debate here. Look up the Supreme Court opinions for the case.</p>

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<p>@Newjack88</p>

<p>“It’s people like you who are the ones belittling the accomplishments of African Americans, women, Hispanics, Midwesterners, Southerners, Hispanics, Native Americans, working middle class students, etc.”</p>

<p>Please don’t casually group me among whatever group you’re trying to come up with, as I belong in two of the above groups. I think it’s been VERY firmly established that grades mean nothing above a certain point. VERY firmly established. No where did I say that just because people score above a certain range then they deserve to be accepted more than URMS, but somehow you dragged that argument out from somewhere… because I’m Asian? Because I’m Asian then I would be expected to have good grades and absolutely nothing else on top of that? Because I’m Asian and I dislike AA then it’s automatically because I’m the stereotypical math/science nerd who doesn’t have any passion in the community/ any meaningful ECs?</p>

<p>I did not post to sound intelligent or share some philosophical argument for or against AA. I simply say that I hate it because of what it does to my URM friends. Sure, it’s caused by everyone’s mindset, but the fact that AA exists certainly doesn’t help. I said I wish it didn’t, so when you look at an accomplished person, you can see beyond race. That’s all I wanted to say.</p>

<p>I understand that AA is an issue riddled with very emotional opinions, but I didn’t post to start a debate or be falsely accused of “belittling” people’s accomplishments. Where did I do that? If I remember correctly, I think I complained about OTHER people belittling URM accomplishments because of AA. I myself was not included.</p>

<p>I personally do not think that I am a part of the problem, not so deeply as you said. My URM friends are THE smartest people I know, and there’s no way I would, or could possibly, belittle any of that. You, on the other hand, immediately grouped me within the “10+ AP class”-taking, “2200+ SAT”-scoring Asians who do nothing else.</p>

<p>I don’t claim to be extremely insightful, or even know much about AA other than the impact it has on the people around me. On the other hand, it’s hard to be convincing when you turn to ad hominem.</p>

<p>Oh, and who ever said that I wasn’t one of the “women” or “working middle class students”?</p>

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<p>“applicant being a “grinder” who is not actually all that bright and has little to offer the school and potential peers, so it’s not really a surprise that these sorts of students are frequently rejected.”</p>

<p>and what did the URMs that took the spots of these kids bring to the table? are they any brighter than the ones rejected? how many will contribute academically to the school by the time they graduate?<br>
I seriously doubt they can do any more if not a lot less than the “grinder” asian</p>

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<p>I would appreciate it if the REJECTS from Harvard left this Forum. Their ineptitude is becoming sickening. It’s clear to me why they were rejected. :o</p>

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<p>Who says it’s all about academics. Harvard is just as well known for it’s dynamic and world-famous extra-curriculars as it is it’s academics (Kroks, Hasty Pudding Theatricals, Crew team, etc). </p>

<p>People need to realize; IT’S NOT JUST ABOUT ACADEMICS. Your life up to date may have been wholly emphasized on academics, but studies show that people who meaningfully involve themselves in extensive extra-curricular commitments like sports teams are more successful in the real world (both by salary-measures and promotion-measures) than those that focused purely on ‘academics.’ This is not aimed at any one person or group in particular (I know just as many White grinders as Asians) but Harvard tries to make sure people are going to do more than just stay in their room and study or go to pre-med-society meeting.</p>

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<p>“Studies show that” people use the phrase “studies show that…” too liberally these days. :D</p>

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<p>newjack, I know the Bakke case. And it is not about someone being lower than middle class. I can tell one thing: you are not a lawyer or versed in legal terminology. I am not one either but I testify in court weekly and I know what AA is all about and it is not about under represented lower economic groups.</p>

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<p>I am just curious…</p>

<p>Could it be that alot of Asian applicants could get clustered into the “grinder” type? I mean, perfectionism can be seen as the greatest type of insecurity. </p>

<p>I hate to believe it but I’d like someone to tell me that most of the people they meet up there don’t fit that personality and that Harvard and most schools like it look down on people who can’t sincerely define themselves, not just Asians but any applicant.</p>

<p>You know what that means? They need more slackers in Cambridge!</p>

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<p>electrequiem, here’s a quick study that showed that athletes get better salaries than non-athletes in business (but not in teaching)</p>

<p>[Do</a> Former College Athletes Earn More at Work?](<a href=“http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:4--80XPXkUQJ:www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/journals/media/pdf/jhr_41.3Henderson.pdf+former+student+athletes+more+successful+in+business&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=30&gl=us&client=safari]Do”>http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:4--80XPXkUQJ:www.wisc.edu/wisconsinpress/journals/media/pdf/jhr_41.3Henderson.pdf+former+student+athletes+more+successful+in+business&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=30&gl=us&client=safari)</p>

<p>Just figured most people would rather hear a summary than read lots of studies. If you want more I’ve got several.</p>

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I accused you of belittling the accomplishments of URMs because your earlier post suggested that you believe that URMs’ acceptances into highly selective universities is primarily, if not completely, due to Affirmative Action. I do not understand why your solution is to get rid of Affirmative Action while allowing people to continually stereotype African Americans, Native Americans, Hispanics, women wanting to enter math and science related fields, Midwesterners, Southerners, people from the working middle class, etc. If you really care about your friends and dislike the prejudice they face you should encourage people to be more knowledgeable about Affirmative Action and how it is applied.</p>

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First of all I doubt you are working middle class. Second, what does that have to do with anything? I listed those groups so that people would be more aware of the fact that Affirmative Action applies to many groups.</p>

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Themselves. Have you read a college brochure? Colleges, especially Harvard, love to boast about how diverse and interesting their student body is.</p>

<p>Also, I like how you said, “took the spots of these kids.” Ok, so all spots at highly selective colleges initially belong to Asians and Whites, so in order for a URM to get accepted they have to “take” spots from Asians and Whites. Nice. <em>sarcasm</em></p>

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Again read Justice Powell’s opinion for the case. Just curious, why do you have to testify in court weekly?</p>

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Check out the “What are my Chances” section.</p>

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So anyone who is not a “grinder” is a slacker?</p>

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<p>“I do not understand why your solution is to get rid of Affirmative Action while allowing people to continually stereotype African Americans, Native Americans, Hispanics, women wanting to enter math and science related fields, Midwesterners, Southerners, people from the working middle class, etc”</p>

<p>Ironic since you yourself said if Harvard admitted by academic ability, almost no midwesterners would make the cut.</p>